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marshman

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Nov 22, 2003
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Is there a mod that increases the proportion of gas/barren worlds and thus makes far less habitable worlds?

right now i think there are too many habitable worlds and not enuf scarcity. looking for a mod or other method to do this.
 
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Yeah, I didn't like the crazy amount of possible colonies left and right too. Takes away the joy of finding a huge Gaia world or a great planet. Not much you can do though.

All you can do is reduce colonizable_planet_odds in map/setup_scenarios scenario of your choice. Default is 1.0, I play at 0.1 and I could see it even less, although I did not try whether the setting accepts 0.05. In a 600 star galaxy default settings results in around (+-10%)320-340 planets colonized in order to win. With 0.1 that number drops down to around 60-70.

As a side effect, you might find more planets with stone age primitives. At least it feels like it. I yet have to look for what governs generation of that kind of stuff.
 
Should also note that the solar system initializer is set to spawn 2 nearby systems with at-least one world each, that matches your species habitability.
 
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Should also note that the solar system initializer is set to spawn 2 nearby systems with at-least one world each, that matches your species habitability.

Oh yes, common/solar_system_initializers although I can't remember which one is it. I would go around all of them and search for part of the string and delete them just to be sure :D

I think you need to delete this part (although not sure whether all of that or just the initializer is enough, I throw it all away, just to be sure)

neighbor_system = {
distance = { min = 10 max = @distance }
initializer = "sol_neighbor_t1"
}
neighbor_system = {
distance = { min = 10 max = @distance }
initializer = "sol_neighbor_t1_first_colony"

for it to stop spawning two ideal colonies for your race... I didn't check it though, I only played one game after I did that and got an arid and got no native planet type anywhere nearby so I assumed it works...might be pure luck, someone who knows anything REAL about moddying and not just fiddling with numbers and deleting/copying stuff might help you more.

There are mods that change those file/s though (25 tile homeworld for example), so watch out, this is the reason why I had to play with it myself.
 
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If you want compatibility with everything you can achieve a similar effect by diluting the generated solar systems with custom ones using only uninhabitable planets with an additional system initialization file.

For example you can simply duplicate the 4 basic systems that are in misc_system_initializers.txt into a new mymod_system_initializers.txt and force the generated planet classes to be uninhabitable, here's an example of one solar system that is an exact copy of one of the defaults with the only changes being the system name and allowed planet classes:

Code:
# Basic 5
basic_init_05 = {
    class = "rl_standard_stars"
 
    usage = misc_system_init
    usage_odds = 20

    planet = {
        count = 1
        class = star
        orbit_distance = 0
        orbit_angle = 1
        size = { min = 20 max = 30 }
        has_ring = no
    }
 
    change_orbit = 45
 
    planet = {
        count = { min = 2 max = 5 }
        class = random_non_colonizable
        orbit_distance = { min = 20 max = 80 }
        orbit_angle = { min = 90 max = 270 }
     
        change_orbit = @base_moon_distance
     
        moon = {
            count = { min = 0 max = 2 }
            orbit_angle = { min = 90 max = 270 }
            orbit_distance = 5
        }
    }
}

The important line is: class = random_non_colonizable for the planets.

The game has four basic systems that have a pretty random setup. If you do four of your own just like those but with only uninhabitable planets you'll cut down the number of habitable planets. Do a bunch more, instead of just four, or increase the usage_odds on your custom systems to tune it for the desired results.

While this is kind of a backwards approach you will maintain compatibility with most, if not all, other mods out there.
 
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for it to stop spawning two ideal colonies for your race... I didn't check it though, I only played one game after I did that and got an arid and got no native planet type anywhere nearby so I assumed it works...might be pure luck, someone who knows anything REAL about moddying and not just fiddling with numbers and deleting/copying stuff might help you more.
Yeah, just delete/comment out those entire "neighbor" sections from the system you're editing like you said, and yes, it works I've done it for my own mod. You'll want to leave the actual neighbor system definitions at the end of the file though since they're referenced in other files.
 
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I love your idea. Although I didn't try whether it is possible to lower 0.1 to 0.05 for colonizable planet odds (I imagine not, and even if yes, that reduction would be barely felt), using your idea I can do that quite easily, and scale that as needed too (even though it requires some trial and error to check the results)! Thanks! ;)
 
The hardest part will be getting the desired results since we're completely at the mercy of the RNG :)
 
In C:\Steam\steamapps\common\Stellaris\map\setup_scenarios

There are five files, one for each size of galaxy (tiny, small, medium, large, huge). I created my own:
C:\Users\Anthropoid\Documents\Paradox Interactive\Stellaris\mod\anthropoid\map\setup_scenarios\enormous.txt
Code:
setup_scenario = {
    name = "enormous"
    priority = 5                    #priority decides in which order the scenarios are listed
    num_stars = 1500
    radius = 490                    #should be less than 500, preferably less than ~460
    num_empires = { min = 20 max = 22 }    #limits player customization
    num_empire_default = 21
    fallen_empire_default = 7
    advanced_empire_default = 0
    colonizable_planet_odds = 0.1
   
    cluster_count = {
        # method = one_every_x_empire
        method = random
        value = 6
        max = 10
    }
    cluster_radius = 150
   
    cluster_distance_from_core = 300
   
    num_nebulas    = 10
    nebula_size = 60
    nebula_min_dist = 200
   
    supports_shape = elliptical
    supports_shape = spiral_2
    supports_shape = spiral_4
    supports_shape = ring
}

Using a modified version of the Sol system (called Yggdrasil) that has no neighbor scripts, I had a sum total of 1 world of my class nearby. There was one other that shows as green, but it was tropical not continental.

Here is an image of my exploration of the arm I was in
9FgPX.jpg


In that entire area, I had a ship traverse every single system, and in that entire stretch of galaxy 1 continental planet in addition to my homeworld. My "north recon" corvette got blown up so he didn't make it so far. Even so, you can see that the incidence of ideal planets, if not habitable planets is lower than in a typical game.

This mod does include a custom solar system (without neighbors), but I did not change anything else that I would think would impact the frequency of colonizable planets.

Personally, I think the situation shown in that screen cap is a bit too extreme for my tastes and I'll check how it goes with colonizable_planet_odds = 0.5 instead.
 
1500 stars... so roughly 7500 planets (give or take) with maybe half of those in the habitable zone, 10% of those being habitable and about 12% (assuming Gaia is included) of those being of any one specific type. The RNG in Stellaris seems very prone to streaks from my experience so yeah, in a big galaxy like that you're going to have to look at a lot of stars to find continental planets. But then again, you could just as easily end up with a map that had 20 continental planets in that same area depending on your luck with the RNG.

But I think what the rest of us were talking about isn't so much the number of one specific type of planet but rather the sheer number habitable planets combined, at least that's been my concern. You may very well have almost 400 habitable planets in that map and that's still potentially almost 1 in every 3 systems. I think this is the problem with just using purely random planet classes in all of the solar systems. I've been able to get much less extreme results using custom system initializers since I can put a lot more effort in balancing the odds to my liking. Even little things like making sure there is never more than one habitable planet in a system goes a long way towards minimizing extreme cases like your example.
 
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Is there any good setting to have more distant between stars especially farther away from the center... and also that the arms are spread more so that the gaps are bigger?
 
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1500 stars... so roughly 7500 planets (give or take) with maybe half of those in the habitable zone, 10% of those being habitable and about 12% (assuming Gaia is included) of those being of any one specific type. The RNG in Stellaris seems very prone to streaks from my experience so yeah, in a big galaxy like that you're going to have to look at a lot of stars to find continental planets. But then again, you could just as easily end up with a map that had 20 continental planets in that same area depending on your luck with the RNG.

But I think what the rest of us were talking about isn't so much the number of one specific type of planet but rather the sheer number habitable planets combined, at least that's been my concern. You may very well have almost 400 habitable planets in that map and that's still potentially almost 1 in every 3 systems. I think this is the problem with just using purely random planet classes in all of the solar systems. I've been able to get much less extreme results using custom system initializers since I can put a lot more effort in balancing the odds to my liking. Even little things like making sure there is never more than one habitable planet in a system goes a long way towards minimizing extreme cases like your example.

Good points Victor. I'm curious, about how many lines of script has it been necessary to write/change to get your system with custom system initializers to work to a satisfactory extent? The relationship between the files is still a bit fuzzy for me, but once that gets a bit clearer, doing something like that sounds kinda fun. In fact, what could be quite interesting, is to do a few different varieties of that, perhaps even selectable in game setup pane: imagine . . .
Slider controls for incidence of each of the habitable planet types <-------------|----------->

Is there any good setting to have more distant between stars especially farther away from the center... and also that the arms are spread more so that the gaps are bigger?

There are, however, in some cases these attributes seem to have parameters that might be modifying them from multiple different files:
C:\Steam\steamapps\common\Stellaris\map\galaxy\base.lua
Code:
-- BASE VALUES FOR GALAXY GENERATION

core_radius_perc = 0.25                -- Core radius is 30% of the galaxy radius
num_stars_core_perc = 0                -- Number of stars in core
stars_min_dist = 10.0                -- Min distance between stars

countries = {
    ideal_sq_dist_between = 75*75,    -- Ideal square distance between countries
    min_sq_dist_between = 50*50,    -- Min square distance between countries
}

fallen_empires = {
    num = 5,                        -- Number of fallen empires
    ideal_sq_dist_between = 150*150,-- Ideal square distance between countries
    min_sq_dist_between = 100*100,    -- Min square distance between countries
    max_military_fleet_count = 5,    -- Number of military fleets the empire will start with
    ships_per_fleet = 3,           
    --starting_tech
}

I have not had much luck with making changes there so far; one can only endure so many open-launch new-observe-close-change file-repeat cycles in one day . . .

There are also four other files in that directory (one for each of the conformations of stars for each galaxy type) and those include attributes with parameters you can fiddle with. Again I haven't had a great deal of luck here with establishing what all the numbers "do."
Code:
-- SPIRAL WITH 4 ARMS

core_radius_perc = 0.3                -- Core radius is 30% of the galaxy radius

arms = {
    tightness_winding = 0.7,        -- Tightness of winding
    width = 40.0,                    -- Arm width in degrees
    fuzz = 10.0,                    -- Maximum outliers distance from arms
    seperation = 90.0,                -- Separation (in degrees) between each arm   
}
 
I agree, it just feels strange that absolutely everything is inhabitable. And it makes terraforming kinda useless. Of course they can't "simulate" a galaxy with its billions of stars and planets, but the way they did habitable worlds is just stupid. Humans can't live on a "Tundra World", really? They should have gone for types of habitable planets that are more different; different athmosphere, gravitation, UV and such. Also with less planets that can be colonized without intervention, like building domes or terraforming the whole thing. There is a mod out there that introduces new planet types that can be colonized (by robots) or terraformed: semi-barren (like Mars), frozen (like Ganymede) cold greenhouse and hot greenhouse (like Venus).

Oh, and empty systems! Most suns don't have planets. It's understandable that they are excluded from the game, but they would provide "hiding space" for pirates and the like.
 
Good points Victor. I'm curious, about how many lines of script has it been necessary to write/change to get your system with custom system initializers to work to a satisfactory extent? The relationship between the files is still a bit fuzzy for me, but once that gets a bit clearer, doing something like that sounds kinda fun. In fact, what could be quite interesting, is to do a few different varieties of that, perhaps even selectable in game setup pane: imagine . . .
Slider controls for incidence of each of the habitable planet types <-------------|----------->
It isn't really that much work although it is a lot of changes, if that makes sense.

What I wanted was more complicated though, so I've made many changes that aren't all directly related to habitable planets. I wanted a more "accurate" mix of star types, more variety in the solar systems of different star classes, less common habitable planets and orbital resources that made more sense to me. When I only reduced the number of habitable planets the game felt resource starved so I then altered deposits so that stars always had something (energy or science) and all asteroids had minerals and that was a very easy change of just a couple lines in the null deposit entry and some weight modifiers for minerals. Once I did that I still wasn't happy with the overall planet distribution so I tweaked the planet types to distribute the habitable planets min & max distance from the star as this allowed me to balance out the different planet classes better since my system initializers were altered to use random colonizable and random non-colonizable planet classes instead of just random classes.

I actually avoid using some of the games built-in odds values (planet & star classes) since I found it easier to control those results by controlling the usage odds of solar systems and then within those systems having more strict planet placement. To do this I have a lot more system initializers than the base game but in reality many of them or just variations of a few basic systems I setup.

In the end my game never has habitable planets in class A, B or M systems so those systems have higher chances of various resources. I also have a few "empty" systems that have a few visual effects (like an asteroid belt with no large asteroids) but nothing useful beyond the star itself. I was also able to balance out the value of nebulae since those are required for many strategic resources I have them setup to have virtually no habitable planets within them. Combine those basic "rules" with the ability to weigh system odds effectively by star class and although I have a ton of different possible systems it's easier to control the overall makeup of the galaxy. Or, as I like to think of it, less random without being more repetitive.

All in all I have about a dozen custom files like "habitable_system_initializers.txt" some of which are a couple thousand lines long but I think it's an easier way to do it than a couple small files with a lot of random variations in them like they did with the default misc_system_initializers.txt file. I also think it's a lot harder to try to explain this that it is to do it :)
 
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Would you be willing to share your files? Not necessarily as a mod, just raw text/files that I could tweak to my liking, since what you did sounds kinda what I would like, although I would need to tweak that quite a bit to my liking. :rolleyes:

Edit:
I somehow missed the "couple thousands lines long" part LOL! :D

Not my kind of words, but RU MAD?! :eek:
 
LOL, a "couple thousand lines" isn't really all that much for system initializers. A single "basic" solar system may be 200 lines (with probably 20 blank lines), put 10 of those in one file and you have 2000 lines but it's not as scary as it sounds :)

I was playing around with it last night and changed quite a bit (I think I'm hopelessly addicted to changing things) so it's less messy. I broke up the system initializers by star class instead of simply habitable & uninhabitable so I have 6 files, but they're smaller. A & B are very small at 146 lines each, and they're almost identical with the only difference being some forced planet classes. M class systems have the most options with 10 (weighing in at 603 lines) while G, F and K are still in the works but have more complicated systems to make sure I don't create too many habitable planets of one particular type..

I could share the files but I think it would be easier for you to create your own so you can organize them in a way that makes the most sense to you rather than trying to figure out everything I changed and why. Here is an example from the M class systems:

Code:
class_m_init_01 = {
    class = sc_m
    asteroids_distance = 50
  
    usage = misc_system_init
    usage_odds = 20

    planet = {
        count = 1
        class = star
        orbit_distance = 0
        orbit_angle = 1
        size = { min = 15 max = 25 }
        has_ring = no
    }
  
    change_orbit = 50
  
    planet = {
        count = { min = 0 max = 1 }
        class = random_asteroid
        orbit_distance = 0
        orbit_angle = { min = 90 max = 270 }
    }
  
    change_orbit = 50
  
    planet = {
        count = { min = 0 max = 1 }
        class = pc_barren
        orbit_distance = 0
        orbit_angle = { min = 90 max = 270 }
    }
  
    change_orbit = 40
  
    planet = {
        count = { min = 0 max = 1 }
        class = pc_barren
        orbit_distance = 0
        orbit_angle = { min = 90 max = 270 }
    }
  
    change_orbit = 60
  
    planet = {
        count = { min = 0 max = 1 }
        class = pc_barren_cold
        orbit_distance = 0
        orbit_angle = { min = 90 max = 270 }
    }
  
    change_orbit = 60
  
    planet = {
        count = { min = 0 max = 1 }
        class = pc_frozen
        orbit_distance = 0
        orbit_angle = { min = 90 max = 270 }
    }
}

It could be shortened quite a bit, everything after the asteroids could be written like this:

Code:
    change_orbit = 40
  
    planet = {
        count = { min = 0 max = 4 }
        class = random_non_colonizable
        orbit_distance = 60
        orbit_angle = { min = 90 max = 270 }
    }

But I went with the long code for two main reasons... 1- only variations of barren planets are used and, 2- it can create interesting systems with large gaps in the planets since it changes orbit and then has a 50% chance of creating a planet, if no planet is created it changes orbit again leaving a gap and you don't get that effect in the second method. I tried doing something similar with custom random lists but I wasn't getting the effect I wanted- good visual variation between the systems.

This way I can control the usage odds of star classes too, I have more possible systems with higher usage odds for class M stars therefore they are most common :) (this was purely to satisfy my inner geekiness that was bothered when seeing almost as many A & B stars as M stars)

This way is 90% fluff. A lot of the gameplay effect can be achieved with smaller changes, the map just felt very repetitive to me when i did it the easy way.

Some changes I did are really, really easy. For example to make sure that every star and every asteroid has some type of resource on them needs this simple change in 00_deposits.txt:

Code:
#NULL DEPOSIT MUST EXIST
d_null_deposit = {
    is_null = yes
  
    drop_weight = {
        weight = 50
        modifier = {
            weight = 0
            planet = {
                OR = {
                    is_planet_class = pc_black_hole
                    is_planet_class = pc_neutron_star
                    is_planet_class = pc_pulsar  
                    is_planet_class = pc_a_star
                    is_planet_class = pc_b_star
                    is_planet_class = pc_f_star
                    is_planet_class = pc_g_star
                    is_planet_class = pc_k_star
                    is_planet_class = pc_m_star
                    is_asteroid = yes                  
                }
            }
        }
        modifier = {
            weight = 33
            planet = {
                is_planet_class = pc_gaia
            }
        }
        modifier = {
            weight = 100
            planet = {
                OR = {
                    is_planet_class = pc_barren
                    is_planet_class = pc_barren_cold
#                    is_planet_class = pc_a_star
#                    is_planet_class = pc_b_star
#                    is_planet_class = pc_f_star
#                    is_planet_class = pc_g_star
#                    is_planet_class = pc_k_star
#                    is_planet_class = pc_m_star
                    is_planet_class = pc_nuked
                }
            }
        }
    }
}

I just put all of the stars and asteroids up where the weight for "null" is forced to be 0. They used to have a weight of 100 (you can see where I commented out those lines) and asteroids used the default 50. I think this is an essential change if you cut down the number of habitable planets. You can tweak the individual deposits too but you don't really need to. But, it does technically add to the "couple thousand lines" that I've modified :)
 
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It isn't really that much work although it is a lot of changes, if that makes sense.

What I wanted was more complicated though, so I've made many changes that aren't all directly related to habitable planets. I wanted a more "accurate" mix of star types, more variety in the solar systems of different star classes, less common habitable planets and orbital resources that made more sense to me. When I only reduced the number of habitable planets the game felt resource starved so I then altered deposits so that stars always had something (energy or science) and all asteroids had minerals and that was a very easy change of just a couple lines in the null deposit entry and some weight modifiers for minerals. Once I did that I still wasn't happy with the overall planet distribution so I tweaked the planet types to distribute the habitable planets min & max distance from the star as this allowed me to balance out the different planet classes better since my system initializers were altered to use random colonizable and random non-colonizable planet classes instead of just random classes.

I actually avoid using some of the games built-in odds values (planet & star classes) since I found it easier to control those results by controlling the usage odds of solar systems and then within those systems having more strict planet placement. To do this I have a lot more system initializers than the base game but in reality many of them or just variations of a few basic systems I setup.

In the end my game never has habitable planets in class A, B or M systems so those systems have higher chances of various resources. I also have a few "empty" systems that have a few visual effects (like an asteroid belt with no large asteroids) but nothing useful beyond the star itself. I was also able to balance out the value of nebulae since those are required for many strategic resources I have them setup to have virtually no habitable planets within them. Combine those basic "rules" with the ability to weigh system odds effectively by star class and although I have a ton of different possible systems it's easier to control the overall makeup of the galaxy. Or, as I like to think of it, less random without being more repetitive.

All in all I have about a dozen custom files like "habitable_system_initializers.txt" some of which are a couple thousand lines long but I think it's an easier way to do it than a couple small files with a lot of random variations in them like they did with the default misc_system_initializers.txt file. I also think it's a lot harder to try to explain this that it is to do it :)

That all sounds like a very cool set of changes! Even like something PDS should consider for an update for DLC.

You should post that stuff so I can steal. . . erm, I mean (with your permission!) INTEGRATE it, into my mod :D
 
I can do that, steal...erm integrate away. :p

There are some issues though, I haven't yet touched the empire initializers (beyond removing neighbors) and I use a different set of modded files to disable space monsters and primitives until I work on them. Unfortunately everything uses "misc_system_init" as the usage type so if you don't disable/fix all of those too they throw off the results since they simply use random star classes and random planets (if you find a habitable planet outside of F, K or G stars this is why).

The most important files are the system initializers (obviously). The changes in planet classes are minimal but I split them into multiple files for the next phase where I plan to add more variety to planet classes. I have some graphical changes to stars that aren't included but I do have custom random lists that you'll see in ssp_star_classes.txt although they aren't used yet (that's going to be my work-around for starting systems, primitive systems and monster spawn systems rather than forced star classes).

There may be some redundant & leftover changes that I haven't cleaned up yet, so be prepared. Also watch out for my inconsistent use of "change_orbit" and "orbit_distance" scattered about to keep you on your toes.

Tomb worlds are technically classified as colonizable so they will still appear. G, F and K systems are incomplete and mostly just tweaked copies of the solar systems used in empire_initializers.txt with a duplicate set using one instance of "random" planet instead of "random_colonizable" to make it possible to get a few without habitable planets in them. The deposits are split with additional rules for stars & asteroids to better tweak them, and this is also an incomplete change that needs more testing.

All of this for an amazing 16k zip file ;)

I just packed up the "common" folder, so extract it to a temporary location and move as needed, this should be the easiest way to share the important bits. Hopefully once you start digging around you'll see what I meant when I said it's easier to do it than it is to explain it :D

If you come up with any cool solar system designs please share them, I run out of ideas quickly when I work on these :oops:
 

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Wow 16k that is not much! Nice work!

I'll probably hold off a day or two on checking it out in play. I finally got my mod running and I want to test a bit today . . . and then of course that Java and C++ homework I've been slacking off on really should be worked in there somewhere . . .

So you'd be cool if I integrate this into my anthropoid mod? With credit of course!

I've found that some of the best mods for games like this are not so much one guy who does everything, but one or two guys who are diplomatic and manage to get lots of folks to contribute pieces, and then perhaps smooth out the seams. It'd be kinda fun to get something like that going for Stellaris.
 
I have no problem with you using it. It's a long way from finished though, so I'd look at it as more of a proof of concept. In fact while I was out doing yard work I was just thinking of a better way to handle the habitable systems to get the results I'm looking for so these files will be "out-dated" by tonight :)

And yeah, it's always best to work with other people on projects with a big scope. People have a tendency to come up with very different ways of doing the same thing and we're generally not the best at breaking our own creations.