Weird sound problem

[jpd]

Hi all,

I have a very unusual problem with EU2 v1.05 at the moment.

The sound fragments that are associated with a particular event play only once during a game session.

This include simple ones like the click you hear when selecting a province, a land unit, a naval unit, etc., but also the gunshot during a siege, the weapons noise during a land battle, the trumpet herald when an ambassador announces a request.

The funny thing is that when the same sound is associated with more than one action (such as the 'click' or the trumpet herald), it plays exactly once for each associated action, and then never again.

I have recently reinstalled Windows from scratch, including all drivers. I have made two hardware modifications since the last moment EU2 behaved normal (sound wise, that is): I replaced the SoundBlaster Live with a SoundBlaster Audigy II, and I replaced the 300W PSU with a 460W PSU.

I did a complete reinstall of Windows to avoid old drivers and/or driver files from previous hardware to screw up my installation, so that cannot be the cause.

Furthermore, I currently use the most recent NVidia Detonator drivers (GeForce 4 Ti4200) and the SB Audigy II drivers as supplied on the CD (no updates available yet). I also have installed the most recent DirectX version (8.1b)

Before the soundcard upgrade I already had the GeForce 4 Ti4200, but then I was using the Asus supplied 29.x version, instead of the 40.72 ones (although these ARE Microsoft certified, and the 29.x ones are not).

I have no busmaster drivers installed, and no GART driver either. Everything hardware related is Windows Installation default, except (of course) the sound and video drivers.

Other games are behaving normal (sound wise)

Any ideas as to what could be the cause?

Jan Peter

 

[unmerged(6777)]

I am really sorry that for some reason I didn't see your post earlier! For some reason it just slipped past me without my noticing it. My profuse apologies!

* * * * *

Is this with WinXP as the OS or an earlier version? If with XP, did you download the optional update/fix relating to certain video/audio problems experienced with certain games/video clips?

Have you tried adjusting the hardware acceleration on your sound card down to a slightly lower level (or turned it off completely)?

The binkplay can create some really strange lingering problems too so you may find that all you need to do is rename the avi folder to avi_old, skip the intro movies, and just load it "straight".

 

[jpd]

Hi,

This is with Windows 98 SE.

This is my current config:

MSI 6380 mobo (KT 266A chipset)
AMD Athlon XP1600+
2 x Samsung DDR 266 256MB CL2.5 memory
IBM DeskStar 60 GB ATA100 HDD
Asus GeForce 4 Ti4200 128 MB
Creative SB Audigy II
Enermax PSU 460 W

Right now I have created a multi boot (with BootMagic) on my system. On the alternate C drive I now have Win2K SP2 installed, and tested EU2 1.05 on it. Using Win2K, the sound plays normal ?!?

I am using the same Detonator drivers and Audigy drivers, and this Win2K installation even has the IDE busmaster drivers and the GART driver installed.

Also, I use the same version of DirectX (8.1b), although Microsoft provided a different (and much smaller) package for Win2K than the one for Win9x. Maybe that's the difference ?

Jan Peter

 

[unmerged(6777)]

On your Win98 partition try renaming the avi folder to avi_old and see if that clears it up...glad you're able to work with Win2k though.

Much smaller DX package for 2k? Probably because some of it's native.

 

[unmerged(5314)]

Originally posted by jpd
Hi all,

I have a very unusual problem with EU2 v1.05 at the moment.

Egads, it's my problem exactly! Not that unusual it seems.

*frets about whether he violated some of the numberless stickies on posting rules in the support forum and looks for a NOLF2-style hiding place*

 

[unmerged(6777)]

Re: Re: Weird sound problem

Originally posted by Alva
Egads, it's my problem exactly! Not that unusual it seems.

*frets about whether he violated some of the numberless stickies on posting rules in the support forum and looks for a NOLF2-style hiding place*

Don't worry. I usually like to keep each preson's problem in a seperate thread so I can scan back up the thread to see system config and what we've already tried quickly, so definitely keep your responses for your situation in the other thread....but keep an eye on this thread too in case you see an idea that might shed some light on your situation. If you have an idea that might relate to pds' situation then post it here; but any reports, etc. on your situation should stay in your thread.

 

[jpd]

Originally posted by MrT
On your Win98 partition try renaming the avi folder to avi_old and see if that clears it up...glad you're able to work with Win2k though.

Much smaller DX package for 2k? Probably because some of it's native.

Maybe I'll give that a try, but right now I am doing the opposite.

I am trying out all of my games on my newly created Win2K setup. If none of them cause any trouble, then I think I will abandon win98 (SE).

It is currently causing more trouble than it's worth. EU2 never worked reliably on it (that is, any version other than 1.00 !!!). You know, the 'fail to reset video mode on exit' problems, or 'crash in DHELP' problem. It has always been extremely annoying to be forced to reboot one's PC whenever one quits EU2.

And now, with the Audigy, I cannot even use the GART driver in Windows 98. The VIA GART driver causes lockups in Windows 98, whenever I use DirectX. In Win2K this (luckily) isn't an issue right now (knock on wood ). The bottom line here is that currently Win2K performs better (3D Mark of 8600) than win98SE (3D Mark of 7700, out of a possible 9800)

Had win98 SE worked reliaibly with the VIA GART driver, I wouldn't have been so eager to switch to win2K. After all, a score of 9800 is substantially better than 8600

 

[unmerged(6777)]

Originally posted by jpd
Maybe I'll give that a try, but right now I am doing the opposite.

I am trying out all of my games on my newly created Win2K setup. If none of them cause any trouble, then I think I will abandon win98 (SE).

It is currently causing more trouble than it's worth. EU2 never worked reliably on it (that is, any version other than 1.00 !!!). You know, the 'fail to reset video mode on exit' problems, or 'crash in DHELP' problem. It has always been extremely annoying to be forced to reboot one's PC whenever one quits EU2.

And now, with the Audigy, I cannot even use the GART driver in Windows 98. The VIA GART driver causes lockups in Windows 98, whenever I use DirectX. In Win2K this (luckily) isn't an issue right now (knock on wood ). The bottom line here is that currently Win2K performs better (3D Mark of 8600) than win98SE (3D Mark of 7700, out of a possible 9800)

Had win98 SE worked reliaibly with the VIA GART driver, I wouldn't have been so eager to switch to win2K. After all, a score of 9800 is substantially better than 8600

Something really, really strange going on here and I haven't the faintest idea exactly what it is (and I don't have a '98 partition any longer to test it with). The crashes you're describing haven't been a problem for the vast, vast majority of people since EU2 v 1.02 or 1.03 (when it was epidemic) so I'm almost thinking that there's something still lurking in your Win98 partition somewhere that never got deleted or overwritten when you updated the patches. I have not seen the crash on exit reported in ages.

When you've done a uninstall on your '98 partition, have you gone through and looked at registry keys, emptied all the temp folders, etc.? The other possibility is that GeForce card since the drivers that nVidia had for quite some time were a major problem and only became particularly stable with the release of the 40.xx series drivers. Have you used Detonator Destroyer to remove them completely and then reinstalled the 41.xx (I don't recall the number at this instant) driver?

In the long run, though, I think you're probably right in testing everything on '2k and then removing your '98 partition if it still allows you to run the other software you need. I can also tell you that XP has been incredibly stable for me - both at the office where I give it a nasty work-out daily, and also at home where I pretty much use it exclusively for games (sp and mp) or internet these days. All I can say is that you should be thankful that you didn't go the WinME upgrade path!

Anyway, if you keep the '98 partition and aren't able to track down the source of your problems, I'm certainly willing to keep trying to find a solution for you, but that could involve the dreaded "wipe the partition and reinstall Win98" fix which none of likes to do.

Keep me posted.

 

[jpd]

Originally posted by MrT
Something really, really strange going on here and I haven't the faintest idea exactly what it is (and I don't have a '98 partition any longer to test it with). The crashes you're describing haven't been a problem for the vast, vast majority of people since EU2 v 1.02 or 1.03 (when it was epidemic) so I'm almost thinking that there's something still lurking in your Win98 partition somewhere that never got deleted or overwritten when you updated the patches. I have not seen the crash on exit reported in ages.

When you've done a uninstall on your '98 partition, have you gone through and looked at registry keys, emptied all the temp folders, etc.? The other possibility is that GeForce card since the drivers that nVidia had for quite some time were a major problem and only became particularly stable with the release of the 40.xx series drivers. Have you used Detonator Destroyer to remove them completely and then reinstalled the 41.xx (I don't recall the number at this instant) driver?

In the long run, though, I think you're probably right in testing everything on '2k and then removing your '98 partition if it still allows you to run the other software you need. I can also tell you that XP has been incredibly stable for me - both at the office where I give it a nasty work-out daily, and also at home where I pretty much use it exclusively for games (sp and mp) or internet these days. All I can say is that you should be thankful that you didn't go the WinME upgrade path!

Anyway, if you keep the '98 partition and aren't able to track down the source of your problems, I'm certainly willing to keep trying to find a solution for you, but that could involve the dreaded "wipe the partition and reinstall Win98" fix which none of likes to do.

Keep me posted.

Well, something lurking in the Win98 partition is impossible, as I have completely formatted and reinstalled from scratch (what you call the "wipe the partition and reinstall Win98" fix). The game itself is on a different partition, though, and accessible from both Win98SE and Win2K.

I had to nail down the cause of the infinite loop errors after my upgrade to the SB Audigy II on my system, which meant multiple clean reinstalls. In the end it turned out to be caused by the VIA GART driver ... go figure.

But, as a side effect, there are no leftovers in the windows system directory OR the registry, as they were wiped clean with each format.

Also, no detonator upgrade problems, as I installed the 40.72 version from scratch (this one is WHQL certified). No DirectX upgrade problems either, as I installed 81.b from scratch (directly downloaded from Microsoft). DxDiag reports no problems.

Mind you, in the Win2K setup I am still using the Asus supplied 29.x detonator version, and it causes no problems upto now.

Also, the EU2 exit problems were not new to me, as I have been plagued by them ever since I went from EU2 1.00 to a higher version. Come to think of it, this coincided with a move from DirectX 8.0 to 8.1, which was needed for another game at that time. I was still using the Detonator 6 or so at the time, in combination with a GeForce 2 MX. It also didn't matter if I used Win98 or Win98SE. I tried them both.

A final note. I still believe it must be something in the EU2 source code, as it is the ONLY DirectX game I have (and I have dozens) that fails to orderly shutdown DirectX upon exit.

Regarding the sound problems, which was after all the reason to start this thread

As I said, in Win2K the sound effects play normally, exept for one minor detail. Back in my previous config (the working one, with the SB Live!), it always played the trumpet herald sound when I loaded up a save game. I even got used to the fact there was a small echo in the sound (some notes played more than once, in short succession), when my save game file was large. Now, in Win2K, it doesn't sound the herald trumpet anymore after loading a save game.

Regarding keeping the win98. It really depends on how well my other software likes Win2K. I really, really hate to reboot each and every time I want to switch applications/games.

Win XP is currently not an option, at least as long as Microsoft clings on to that rediculous Activation Key scheme of theirs. I mess with my hardware far to often, and don't want to have to phone them each time to reactivate the XP software.

Maybe, if I can bring myself to it, I will try EU2 1.05 on my old system (a celeron 300A running at 450MHz) on an Intel 440BX chipset. That system currently has the SB Live! installed, together with the GeForce 2 MX. My Athlon system is using the GeForce 4 right now It is also a clean Win98SE installation.

Regarding the reports on the exit crashes. I stopped reporting them some 6 months ago, since there was no sensible response to them. I, reluctantly, learned to live with them. Luckily most of the in-game CTD's were gone, so the need for frequent reboots was no longer there.

 

[Castellon]

I would definately try the rename for the AVI folder, that and switching to a higher resolution "ingame" solved all my reset problems on exit.

 

[jpd]

I am already running at 1024x768.

I considered once using 1280x1024, but this made the various graphics and texts a wee bit too small. Also, it's not an 4:3 ratio, which means that the image becomes distorted.

 

[unmerged(6777)]

Originally posted by jpd
I am already running at 1024x768.

I considered once using 1280x1024, but this made the various graphics and texts a wee bit too small. Also, it's not an 4:3 ratio, which means that the image becomes distorted.

Out of curiosity, have you tried running the game at the basic 800x600 screen res setting? Did that make any apparent difference to the crash on exit?

It's certainly sounds from your description of all the steps you've taken that it's some sort of conflict between the source code and your current hardware/driver/OS/DirectX setup but I really haven't any clue as to exactly where this would be. Yours is an extremely rare case as this is not something that many people are reporting (you're the only one in the last 2-3 months) which, I realise, doesn't make the situation any better for you, but also means that it's something that Paradox isn't actively looking at for the 1.06 patch. Much as I hate to say it, I think you may be stuck with this issue.

I do have one last thought on this though...but this is based on what I think I now understand as your set-up/configuration. Am I correct that you actually have 3 (or more?) partitions on the drive...one for 2k boot, one for '98 boot, and one that can be seen by both OS's? If that's the case, I wonder if there's some strange side effect resulting from that? Have you tried installing a full copy into the same partition that your '98 OS resides on? (Yes...I know that you probably have, but I'm grasping t straws here. )

Re the sound issue...

Interesting comment re the "trumpet herald". I seem to have it play intermittently on load as well. If I start the game immediately after booting my computer I always get the herald when I load a save game (or new game). If I've been playing, exit EU2 completely, and then relaunch it, I rarely get the trumpet. I do not know why this happens, but it's tied into a MP issue that I'm chasing down right now so I hope that when I find the solution to that one it will also have some other beneficial side-effects (like solving this one).

If I can ask you a question about the "herald" in your 2k setup: if you set your history log to give you a pop-up notification (or even to pop up and pause) when a new king rises to the throne, do you hear the trumpet herald play when this happens? While I'm waiting for your answer, I'll go and double check this on my system too.

I have run out of ideas as to why the sound would suddenly stop working for you in '98...particularly since I gather that until recently it was working just fine. IT must be, I image, some source code issue with your new sound card driver but I'm really at a loss as to why this is the case since, again, most people are not reporting the problem. I wonder (if you have room on the partition) whether installing it directly into the '98 partition instead of to a third one would resolve this?

Sorry that this response isn't particularly helpful and that I may be asking you things that you've considered obvious and have already tried, but I'm trying to understand why this is occuring and is a relatively rare (or even unique?) issue on your system. Armed with enough information, I may be able to track it down in the MSKB to find a solution (again, unless you've aready tried doing this). As long as you're willing to contnue answering, I'll keep working on it though.

 

[jpd]

I actually have a lot more than 3 partitions, and have had this for years.

My current HD currently has:

3 primaries, 2 GB each.
4 logicals, 2 GB each. (D through G)
3 logicals, 8 GB each. (H through J)

EU2 is installed on drive H.

The configuration with 3 primaries, and the logicals D through G have their basis in history, some 10 years ago. At that time I was using a 486 with 3 mounted hard drives, running OS/2 from D, and using the various C drives for different DOS versions, for testing purposes. I am a software developer by profession.

As I have migrated over the years, I have streamed over the data from setup to setup, without altering the drive letter assignments. That way my progs would keep on working

So D is still the OS/2 partition, E still holds all my source code and C++ compilers, F still holds all of my non-game apps and G still contains the pre DirectX games I own.

Regarding the install dir. For testing purposes I could install EU2 on my C drive, but as you might guess, there is not an awful lot of space available.

Regarding the new king message. I have to check the current settings. I have no idea what the current settings are right now, but I can set it to popup/pause, although I think it is currently at least set to popup.

The sounds on the win98 setup didn't just die, each sound plays once for each associated event and only then stops. That's what is so strange about it. And yes, I don't rule out that there is something conflicting inside my Win98 setup. If it is, however, it must be something very basic, since my current Win98SE is a vanilla setup, with only the Audigy drivers and Detonator drivers added, and, of course, the Realtek 8139 network card drivers. No GART driver, no mobo drivers or other exotic stuff. Nothing even close I had running in my previous, correctly working Win98 setup.

Maybe it has something to do with the new EAX 3 positional audio that is activated in the Audigy II speaker setup. I will try this tonight by switching back to a 2 speaker setup, although the Win2K also has the 6.1 speaker setup activated.

Regarding the resolution. I didn't test it at 800x600 recently. But it DOES give me another idea. I am running my desktop at 1280x960, which is, while standard supported on the GeForce line of video boards, not a defacto standard desktop resolution. If this would indeed be the cause of the exit problems, then it is still strange that:

a) Other DirectX games don't seem to have trouble with it.
b) Win2K, with the same desktop setting, doesn't have the problem either.

 

[jpd]

Ok.

I have just done a test that may sound a little bizarre. My previous game rig (the Celeron 300A running at 450 MHz on an Intel 440BX board) is currently running the exact same EU2 1.05 that is installed on my main system (the Athlon), through a mapped drive on my peer to peer network connection.

The sound is working correctly, while it is still malfunctioning on my Athlon/Audigy based system. Note here that I didn't even bother to run the EU2 installer on my Celeron system. I only mapped the drive and double clicked on the EU2.EXE

These are the specs for the two systems:

The Athlon:
AMD XP1600+ CPU, MSI VIA KT266A based mobo, 512 MB DDR 266 RAM, Realtek 8139 based network card, GeForce 4 Ti4200 video, SB Audigy II audio, IBM 60 GB HDD, Teac 40 speed CD-ROM, Samsung 12 speed DVD-ROM, Enermax 460 W PSU

The Celeron:
Intel slot 1 Celeron 300A, running at an FSB of 100, Gigabyte Intel 440BX based mobo, 324 MB SDRAM (using 4 different SIMMS), Realtek 8139 based network card, GeForce 2 MX video, SB Live! audio, IBM 30 GB HDD, Teac 32 speed CDD-ROM, Teac 4x4x32 speed CD RW, Iomega IDE ZIP, noname 250W PSU.

Both systems running identical Windows 98 SE setup, identical Detonator drivers (40.72), identical network drivers, identical DirectX, identical 1280x960 16 bit color desktop resolution. The only difference (besides, of course, the chipset related stuff, as far as a vanilla windows setup is concerned), is the sound card and the corresponding drivers.

So either EU2 really dislikes my SB Audigy II sound system (which is currently even swicthed back to a two speaker setup, to be comparable to the Live! setup), or EU2 has developed a sudden dislike for my VIA based Athlon system as a whole, at least as far as Win98 SE goes.

Edit: Renaming the avi folder to something else doesn't make any difference at all either.

 

[unmerged(6777)]

That's amazing! I don't suppose you feel like swapping the sound cards to test that part of the equation do you? If you swap cards and the problem "swaps" computers then you know it's a card/driver issue. If it doesn't "swap" computers then it's something to do with the Athlon...

BTW...I understand your multi-partition logic completely. It makes perfect sense.

 

[jpd]

Well, I don't feel like swapping them tonight. I have done some very major card juggling recently in trying to nail the cause of the infinite loop errors I was getting after installation of the Audigy.

As a result, the Audigy has been inserted into the Celeron system to test if it was working properly, but I didn't test EU2 at that time. I was testing Age of Mythology, one of the games affected by the infinite loop errors.

I could try to activate the AC97 sound on my Athlon mobo though, and see what that does.

 

[jpd]

I think I have figured it out

I have switched from the Audigy VxD drivers to the Audigy WDM drivers, and now the sounds are back!

The reason I had the VxD's running (which is not the default choice) was the infinite loop problems I mentioned earlier. As a first attempt to solve them I had switched from the WDM drivers to the VxD ones, and this DID resolve the problems I experienced in Age of Mythology.

Later though, I still got problems in 3D Mark and Soldier of Fortune II, which in the end lead to the removal of the IDE busmaster drivers and the GART driver. However, I never switched back to the Audigy WDM drivers, until now.

I now have to recheck if those other games are still trouble free

 

[unmerged(6777)]

Originally posted by jpd
I think I have figured it out

I have switched from the Audigy VxD drivers to the Audigy WDM drivers, and now the sounds are back!

The reason I had the VxD's running (which is not the default choice) was the infinite loop problems I mentioned earlier. As a first attempt to solve them I had switched from the WDM drivers to the VxD ones, and this DID resolve the problems I experienced in Age of Mythology.

Later though, I still got problems in 3D Mark and Soldier of Fortune II, which in the end lead to the removal of the IDE busmaster drivers and the GART driver. However, I never switched back to the Audigy WDM drivers, until now.

I now have to recheck if those other games are still trouble free

Woohoo! Well that's amazingly good news. I can sympathise that card-swapping wouldn't be very high on your list of "things to do for fun"

I'm glad you've got your sound back...even if it did take a week or so to figure it out.

 

[Castellon]

Do try the rename for the AVI folder though to see if it clears up your resolution problems on exit.

 

[jpd]

Originally posted by MrT
Re the sound issue...

Interesting comment re the "trumpet herald". I seem to have it play intermittently on load as well. If I start the game immediately after booting my computer I always get the herald when I load a save game (or new game). If I've been playing, exit EU2 completely, and then relaunch it, I rarely get the trumpet. I do not know why this happens, but it's tied into a MP issue that I'm chasing down right now so I hope that when I find the solution to that one it will also have some other beneficial side-effects (like solving this one).

If I can ask you a question about the "herald" in your 2k setup: if you set your history log to give you a pop-up notification (or even to pop up and pause) when a new king rises to the throne, do you hear the trumpet herald play when this happens? While I'm waiting for your answer, I'll go and double check this on my system too.

I have loaded up my Venice GC yesterday (in the Win2K setup, of course), and played for a couple of decades. The new king event is set as a popup message, and the herald does play it's sound.

It even played after I had to reload the game because of the 'load savegame while inside the game' CtD (yes, this even occurs under Win2K !!!), and didn't bother to reboot.

Mind you, it also played the herald on 'loaded the savegame' from time to time. Don't know if the two are connected, but I don't suspect they are, as the herald music is different.