What should CK2's start date be, and why?

[Kaleidoscope]

Presumably the game isn't even being developed yet, but just out of interest, what do you think a good starting year for CK2 would be?

My own personal choice is 843AD. I know this is significantly earlier than CK's 1066, but I think it's workable for the following reasons-

1) 843 was the date of the Treaty of Verdun - a major event in European history when the Carolingian empire was divided up into three separate kingdoms as shown here:

2) although the Crusades wouldn't start for another 250 years, the Reconquista in Iberia is getting into its stride. By 900 AD Iberia apparently looked something like this:

Obviously this is very eurocentric (still more inclusive than CK's Anglocentric 1066 start), but it's just one suggestion based on my limited historical knowledge. If you have your own ideas for new start dates please share them!

I know there's already a thread for CK2 suggestions, but I wanted to start a discussion for this very specific subject, so nyeh.

 

[Snaake]

In CK, being eurocentric is entirely justified.

A big factor affecting the start date would be the difficulty of researching the various feudal fiefs and their lords at the time of the startdate. The 1066 research exists (honed by DVIP and/or TASS) already. Is it feasible to extend the startdate backwards by 100 or 200 years, if it gets increasingly difficult to find historical sources and references?

 

[Hasimir Fenring]

Personnaly I would prefer 1095 and the first crusade launch !

You will be able to play with

• Bohemund of Tarent
• Godefroi de Bouillon
• Raymond de St Gilles

Your opinion ?

 

[Snaake]

Aren't they born by 1066 already anyway?

 

[unmerged(76802)]

I would prefer something between 1071 and 1095. The crusades were triggered by Byzantium asking for help to beat back the Turks, not because the Pope got a bee up his bum one day and decided Alexandria needed to burn.

 

[unmerged(31881)]

The existing start dates are fine by me. Personally, i would like to have opportunities for a pagan Rus' khaganate but i suspect the further back one goes, the less likely research would be consistent.

 

[unmerged(84239)]

I would like an 1000AD start date, that is when the hungarian kingdom was established.


Actually the present start dates are fine, and I am good with any until Hungary is on the map. Of course it is more important to me than Lotharingia or Pictish or Vikings...

 

[Lokicat]

I'm a big fan of playing Christian, Pagan and Muslim - if CK2 can make the other two religions more playable it would be great.

I like the starting with the Carolingian before the split.

Earlier start date will make it very interesting to be a Muslim. Allowing for the capture of Northwest Africa and Spain by the Umayyad Caliphate and the inevitable conflict with of the Carolingian empire, and slow fall as the reconquista begins grinding on.

For those that like converting as Christians there are many more pagans to convert in Eastern Europe.

Finally we can enjoy the rise of the Norseman as they expand and become the French Normans, the Kiev Rus and finally move the Italy.

All of this is in the spirit of CK where turning a single province kingdom into an empire, then watching it fall apart is the charm of the game.

 

[Juggernaut88]

Hmm, while I like the idea of playing in the time period of the carolingian empire and its subsequent break-up kingdoms, it seems like a different game to me. CK is, obviously, primarily concerning the crusades and thus should not defer far from the 1st crusade.

As for the 1066 start date; well, history is written by the victors, and for much of the following millenium england have been the victors (or at least avoiding outright defeat/invasion). It seems only fair that this future superpower be included at the beginnings of its modern form, considering it was heavily involved in the medieval period. That said, however, I would like to see an additional scenario set beforehand at the turn of the millenium. This would be a good gap, and an aweful lot happened in those 66 years to warrent the extra scenario.

 

[unmerged(7537)]

In an ideal world, CK2 would have the "start at any date" feature of EU3 and EURome.

 

[Kaleidoscope]

There still has to be an earliest point at which it can start, though.

 

[Camara]

In an ideal world, CK2 would have the "start at any date" feature of EU3 and EURome.

I really think this would be the case. The current engine and quite possibly the next one support this.

I find 1066 too anglocentric, the 1st crusade would be a much more "universal" (=european ) date. Anyway, I think the early or middle 1000's would be the best. Maybe the Great Schism in 1054? I think it is one of the best dates.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

But starting at any date would require a lot of research and a lot of characters that need to be added, to have at least the same amount of historical accuracy that the current scenario-starting dates have (especially those in TASS and DVIP).

I am assuming that CK2 will have more provinces (at least I hope so), not 10,000 of course, but just say 1,500 province. Then you would have say 1,000 rulers at any date for 400 years with their wifes, children, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, cousins and all their relations with other rulers.


1054 The Great Schism or 1071 Manzikert would be nice starting points.

With a starting point before 1000 AD I see all kinds of problems, since that would require all kinds of events/decisions to have Pagan nation/regions (Hungary, Poland, Scandinavia) convert to Christianity (playing as a Pagan should of course be possible, but continueing to do that as f.e. Hungary untill 1453 should be very hard or impossible).

 

[Snaake]

Finland is pagan in 1066! o/
(almost completely at least... the church didn't get established and widespread until the 12th century at the earliest)

Hopefully there'll be a few extra province tags this time round too. I support a 1066 in any case, since there indeed is so much research already done for it.

 

[Sophilia]

I would definitely like to see earlier scenarios than William the Bastard's, but I'd also like to see a few more later options as well. Like the historical advent of the Mongols, or the Avignon papacy.

Basically, I'm for any option that gives us more starting dates.

 

[Hawkeye1489]

1054 would be a nice date to start with. Of course, if this is an option, I would hope for a possibility to reconcile the schism, which I wouldn't know how hard that would be to script since I have no experience oo). Either way, 1054 opens up numerous possibilities, not only in Europe but also in the Levant/Persia.

 

[Raczynski]

I don't think 843 is a good start.
It leaves pretty much half of Europe (Eastern Europe, Balkans, Scandinavia) pretty as underdeveloped unorganized tribals. Limiting the number of playable countries is almost never a good option, as can be seen from EU Rome.
I'm pretty certain CK2 will start in 1066 btw, as Paradox likes to use previously collected data. Change to date is unlikely, except perhaps in expansion (which, again, I'm pretty certain CK2 will get).

 

[Saulot]

I think that CK's date are really just about perfect, give or take a few years here and there. I like the start date because it is a little past the 1054 schism date, as Catholicism and Orthodoxy both need to be there, and separate, to really set the stage for the Crusades era. The end date is a nice one for the end of the age, but I could understand if they trim some years so it overlaps less with EU3.

 

[Templier]

^ The schism of 1054 is a myth (see here).

 

[unmerged(76802)]

^ The schism of 1054 is a myth (see here).

""Even after 1054 friendly relations between East and West continued. The two parts of Christendom were not yet conscious of a great gulf of separation between them. . . . The dispute remained something of which ordinary Christians in East and West were largely unaware" (Ware, 67).

This changed when the Byzantine Empire collapsed suddenly in 1453."

Maybe try 249 years before that?

I would definitely like to see earlier scenarios than William the Bastard's, but I'd also like to see a few more later options as well. Like the historical advent of the Mongols, or the Avignon papacy.

Basically, I'm for any option that gives us more starting dates.

The Pope is in Avignon in the 1337 scenario.