Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

Whay do my sub's have almost no org?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
U

unmerged(15461)

Sergeant
Mar 11, 2003
98
0
Hi team.

Playing 0.22 with HOI2, as USA. Japan caught me unawares in a DOW so now I am scrambling to get my forces deployed (almost like IRL!). The major early warning system I have is my various sub fleets, especially sortied out of out of Pearl ands Manilla. I have only just noticed though that their Org is like 1 or 3 - nothing higher, even though they have been sitting in port for the last five years!

Is this a bug or by design? The second the first of these sub flotillas actually encountered a Japanese fleet they got their butts kicked 'cause they lasted about 5 seconds, and that's when I noticed the Org; I hadn't even looked at it prior to that. All my other flotillas, air wings and divisions are fine.

If this is by design, what is it supposed to reflect? If its a bug of some sort, how to do I fix it? Either way, subs are useless to me at the moment, and I have been busy building bucket loads of them. I'd rather not abandon this game, as it's Nov '41 so a lot of effort has gone into it so far!

HELP!!!
 
Subs can still be quite potent, but don't expect them to deal well with a well escourted fleet.
 
If I understood it correct, CORE is trying to make the subs of historical importance.
Fortunately, I believe CORE is correct. IRL most nations couldn’t get much out of their subs. Otherwise the Russian fleet would have exterminated Kriegsmarines Baltic fleet pretty fast…
Italy, France and Russia, for example, had a lot of them, but didn’t get proportionally the same result as Germany and the US. (France, of course, didn’t have much to fire on…)

Still, I think the subs are in for a lot of tweaking in CORE.
 
We are doing a lot of balancing for 0.30 regardings the naval side of things and subs in particular. We are also in for a substantial overhaul of naval techs and doctrines, and though this will most likely not make 0.30 it will be our number one priority once 0.30 is out of the door and hopefully not too long in coming.
 
The problem with submarines is not their low organisation level but the fact, that godknowswhy they're losing organisation when doing convoy attack mission. That's IMHO their main problem.

That way they can with their org just sail out of the port, make a short few days trip around and than they need to return. Basically, that makes them useless for the primary task they were designed for - sinking convoys.
 
There has been a lot of balancing in Vanilla as well as CORE over the years and variants of HoI, concerning submarines. Sometimes subs are überships, sometimes useless.

Unfortunately I believe it is the consequents of lack of ‘critical hits’. The game engine favours quantity rather linear, while in reality one sub could stumble over a Battleship and sink it and the next day wolfpack of 30 subs couldn’t find a 60-ship convoy nearby. Regardless of how we tweak the game I think we will always have a problem with the performance of subs and similar areas compared to history. It is, after all, a high level simulation.
 
Loerst said:
The problem with submarines is not their low organisation level but the fact, that godknowswhy they're losing organisation when doing convoy attack mission. That's IMHO their main problem.

That way they can with their org just sail out of the port, make a short few days trip around and than they need to return. Basically, that makes them useless for the primary task they were designed for - sinking convoys.
Click to expand...

I think it is correct that the lose org while attacking convoys, but perhaps they should have a bit higher durability. They should lose org because they spend their limited ammo, fuel and sometimes fight escorts etc.
 
Sgt Nic said:
baylox: is there plans of your knowledge of more sub-doctrines?

I guess it might be a question for MateDow, but you have better availability...
Click to expand...
I honestly don't know, at the moment. I'm rather sure you won't see any major changes in 0.30, but after that I don't have a clue.
 
Sgt Nic said:
I think it is correct that the lose org while attacking convoys, but perhaps they should have a bit higher durability. They should lose org because they spend their limited ammo, fuel and sometimes fight escorts etc.
Click to expand...

I agree. So my suggestion is you keep their org level, but they should lose org at rate no more than 0,1 org a day, allowing them to hunt around at least for a month.
 
And then it is a question of moral, since moral decides org regain/loss.
As I understood it from one discussion at the terranova forum, it is an extremly sensitive balancing act to make the sub org regain perfect.

On one hand you want undeveloped nations to have a fast org loss, ending up in perhaps a couple of weeks of durability and smal combat capability, while on the other hand you want to simulate doctrine and technique advance in the war, as the german U-tankers, american long range etc.

I think this subject will remain hot through several versions ahead (so keep the discussion going...)
 
I personaly found not only subs useless in my last couple of HOI2 DD games(1 with CORE, 1 with DAIM), but aircraft were also useless as regards firing on ships and subs. I now understand that, under Armageddon, planes are even weaker than before, even against ground units.

I was wondering if anyone could tell me exactly what I would have to change i in which particular files , in order to get subs (and aircraft - with regard to air-ship combat), back to their former pre-DD strength.
 
The HSR mod also has changed the org on subs to a single digit number
(i.e very little) and in all honesty i think its a good thing. They will performe
their convoy missions just fine and if they encounter an enemy task force
(warships) they will briefly attack. Sometimes you will sink nothing, sometimes
a destroyer or two.. and sometimes you will get lucky and sink a capital ship.
Much as it was in real life. No longer will you be able to rule the seas with
multiple 30 stacks of subs, thank god.

nappy
 
CromCruachan said:
I personaly found not only subs useless in my last couple of HOI2 DD games(1 with CORE, 1 with DAIM), but aircraft were also useless as regards firing on ships and subs. I now understand that, under Armageddon, planes are even weaker than before, even against ground units.

I was wondering if anyone could tell me exactly what I would have to change i in which particular files , in order to get subs (and aircraft - with regard to air-ship combat), back to their former pre-DD strength.
Click to expand...

In your doomsday/mod-core folder search for the folder "divisions".
There you have a textfile for every type of unit and if you open them you can tweek whatever you want. Go ahead, I did, but mostly in the other direction...
 
Sgt Nic said:
In your doomsday/mod-core folder search for the folder "divisions".
There you have a textfile for every type of unit and if you open them you can tweek whatever you want. Go ahead, I did, but mostly in the other direction...
Click to expand...

What I'd be interested to know is what the exact original figures were for the HOi2-original subs(ie how much morale, strength points/percentages they had etc.). Anyone remember?
 
I like the single-digit submarine ORG a lot. In my current GER game, I have tremendous fun sinking the British merchant marine. In vanilla DD, my subs would encounter an ASW task force, and because the commanders did not have the good sense to retreat from it, it was micro-management hell to avoid taking huge sub losses (blue emu proved that it can be done, but it takes a lot of clicking). With the low ORG, sub commanders do what any sensible sub commander would do, and get the hell out before somebody hits his coffin with a sea bomb or similiar nastyness.

I don't find the (CORE 2.5) ORG loss on convoy raiding missions too bad. Sure, it makes it a bit hard to cover the Canadian coast, but then again, that wasn't easy IRL either.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back