CK3 - Dev Diary #22 - A Medieval Tapestry

[Meneth]

Will homosexual characters be able to take an opposite gender consort to produce an heir with full equality for sexuality or will that be restricted to bisexual characters? What about asexual characters?

I presume in default settings in Catholic realms for example homosexual characters will still be expected to marry someone of the opposite gender, but will it be just the same small reduction to fertility it was in CK2?

People will still get married to the opposite sex even if they're not attracted to them, yes.
Lack of attraction mainly affects things like seduction, romance, becoming a lover, and such. Being your spouse's lower boosts fertility, so that's something a homosexual character would not be likely to obtain.

 

[Heptopus]

Will homosexual characters be able to take an opposite gender consort to produce an heir with full equality for sexuality or will that be restricted to bisexual characters? What about asexual characters?

I presume in default settings in Catholic realms for example homosexual characters will still be expected to marry someone of the opposite gender, but will it be just the same small reduction to fertility it was in CK2?

Concubines/Consorts will always be of the opposing gender. It's more a relationship of convinience rather than an actual loving relationship.
Your sexuality will not affect the way your culture and religion expects you to live your life, so in default Catholic realms a man will be expected to marry a woman no matter his sexuality!

 

[Meneth]

I hope India will not as contorted and shrunken on the map as it is in CK2.

Our projection in CK3 has significantly less distortion in India than the CK2 one had.

 

[Heptopus]

Cool! Would it be possible in-game to split-out bits of the male/female dominated sections?

• E.g. Being Female dominated, but only men are allowed to fight - or both men and women may fight - as commanders/knights?

Basically leading to partial equality or a complex/messy realm where men can do some things and only women may do others (like only women may rule, but only men may be priests or vice versa).

And to clarify, you mention how characters determine their sexuality & gender - does this have bearing on what they are allowed to do, too? e.g. as an edge-case, if a woman wanted to identify as a man, could she secretly enter knightly training?


Does this also mean the shattered worlds/randomised realms feature from holy fury will be in ck3 on release (even if it's without the animal-easter-egg mode)? That was easily my favourite mode.

The granularity of the View on Gender doctrine will be limited on release, but things such as who is allowed to be a knight is decided in script, so it will be easy to mod if you want to tweak it!

Currently, we do not support changing gender identification

 

[Heptopus]

What's the next Dev diary going to be about?

The next DD will focus on Holy Orders!

 

[Heptopus]

So now that heterosexuality is no longer a "default" state does it mean that you don't know the sexuality of most characters? Or does it mean that character sexuality is always a mystery to you? As you've said, specific actions aren't necessarily indicative of character.

Same questions will probably appear later for "secret" traits that have associated acts.

All character's sexuality is presented in their character view. The sexuality itself will not affect how that character is treated or the opinion of other people towards them, but it might affect how they act and their opinion towards others (attraction opinion etc.).

Most secrets a character have will be handled through the secret system, and only shown as a trait once that secret has been exposed!

 

[Heptopus]

For Bhakti what avatars can you select? Also is there something similar for other faiths, such as say honoring a particular Norse god or goddess?

I think we currently have 14 different ones in the game, e.g. Kali, Parvati, Ganesha, and Shiva! We currently do not have it for other faiths, but it's all handled in script...! (*Cough* mod *couch*)

 

[Heptopus]

but isn't action like pretend to be or act like another sex pretty common occurrence in history?
even more in legend and story
will there be a mechanic or atleast some event for that eventually?

Currently we have no events or actions that can influence your gender identity. We've discussed it, and it would be so cool, but it's currently not in the scope of what we can do before release.

 

[Heptopus]

I'm not sure, that has some awkward implications. Realizing a difference in your gender identity isn't as easy as clicking a button on the actions panel, no matter how divorced that may be from what actually happens to the character in-universe. And the idea of an event firing saying, "You suddenly feel like you might not be [physical sex] as you were raised... [Yes/No]" is downright ridiculous. Maybe if you included it as a hidden-from-the-world modifier coded into characters...

Also, I think the original comment was more about women disguising as men to do things like join the army.

My bad, I meant gender identity or gender presentation. In this specific case it's only about presentation, and being able to subvert restrictions placed upon women/men in the game that way. It is indeed a very hard subject to breach in the form of game mechanics, and since it's not a subject we want to make light of and/or misrepresent in the game we decided to not try to squeeze it in "just because".

 

[Heptopus]

This looks like a big advantage for intrigue-focused character. You know which characters are more likely to have secrets. Or am I missing something?

The same could be said for lustful characters being more likely to have lovers It will all depend on what behavior would amount to a secret for your culture and religion, and all bisexual/homosexual characters will ofc not have secrets related to their sexuality.

 

[Meneth]

My reading of this is that on a per-character basis, sexuality is not modelled as 'heterosexual unless marked otherwise', but that if you use the default rule, a large majority of characters will be set to be heterosexual.

This, yes. We wanted to avoid the common trend of heterosexuality being assumed as a default rather than than simply being the most common.
So except for being more common, heterosexual attraction is treated identically to the other sexualities in the game.

 

[DebbieElla]

Stay on topic, don't be toxic. Trolling posts will be deleted.

 

[Heptopus]

I've written down the concerns regarding the use of "Marrano", Poganstwo, and the gender status in the Basques and will make sure that this is discussed in the team!

 

[Heptopus]

A very exciting dev diary!

One thing that I noticed was that Shaivism and Vaishnavism had adjectival forms of Shaivist and Vaishnaist. I am Hindu, and I’ve only ever seen Shaivite and Vaishnavite used as the adjectival forms for these branches. Luckily this is a Paradox game, so this can be easily adjusted via mods, but it would be great if they could be modified in the game itself.

Thanks for the note! If I remember correctly we had to make up adjectives for some faiths since we found little information during our research, so pointers like these are very welcome.

 

[Heptopus]

Regarding gender view in faiths, I see that the dominated versions are very rigid. You already answered a question about making exceptions for knights, but I'm more interested in claim inheritance.

I don't think there's any argument that actual Medieval Catholicism was "Male Dominated," but AFAIK there were still cases of pressing cognatically inherited claims. First example that springs to my mind is Svend II of Denmark who fought for the throne based on a claim inherited through his maternal uncle and grandfather. Will something like that even be possible in CK3's historical faiths if women do not inherit claims?

Women do not get implicit claims if the Male Dominated tenet is active, and vice versa, but they will still inherit claims just like anyone would. An implicit claim is a new type of claim in CK3 where a child has the claim even while their parent is alive. The tooltip is unclear on this, and it has been clarified!

 

[DebbieElla]

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