Crusader Kings 3 Dev Diary #94 - Anatomy of a Struggle

[Wokeg]

Crusader Kings 3 Dev Diary #94 - Anatomy of a Struggle​

Welcome comrades, to a dev diary I’ve been champing at the bit to write for months! Today, we’re going to be talking about the new struggle feature - what it is, how we’ve used it, and how it all works.

The Basic Pitch​

A struggle is a long-form conflict (generally not just a war, though they likely include them) covering a particular chunk of the map. They have different phases, each of which have different variant gameplay rules (e.g., “holy wars are disabled”, “characters of different religions may marry without”, or “Jerusalem can’t declare or be declared war on”).

Phases progress between each other by way of catalysts, specific gameplay actions (“declare war on an involved character”, “two involved characters become soulmates”, etc.) that accrue points towards a future phase. When enough points are accrued, the phase changes to the new one.

Struggles can be resolved, permanently affecting their area in some way, through dramatic and difficult ending decisions.

They are assumed to last at least a couple of centuries: a conqueror carving out a new realm from the ruins of an old giant wouldn’t be a struggle by itself, but if it includes dramatic aftershocks that last for generations, then it just might be.

Philosophy​

So why are we introducing this mechanic attached to a flavour pack? Well, simply put, we didn’t think we could do the historical realities of Iberia justice without something like this.

The changing moods and temperaments of the peninsula over different decades, the way particular activities fluctuated between oddly permissive (by the standards of much of the rest of the world) and intensely strict, the role of notable characters and their policies in shaping the shifting tides of public opinion whether intentionally or not…

Medieval Iberia is just such a fascinating smorgasbord of mercurial special rules that we had to create a system that would allow us to model them, one that guided roleplay whilst giving it consequences, and provided default end goals for players other than just conquering all of Hispania.

Though Iberia badly needed such a thing, it would have been a waste to create a system tailored for only Iberia. Complex and shifting local circumstances and long-form conflicts that don’t always take the form of actively-prosecuted warfare are things seen in many parts of the world, and a setting-agnostic system that catered to the peninsula but could be easily repurposed elsewhere seemed like a very worthwhile project to spend time on.

So let’s get into how it works!

Involvement​

Struggles are, first and foremost, local things. Local to large areas (Iberia, for instance, is a decently sized little peninsula), but still local. The most basic thing that defines them, then, is the struggle region - a predefined group of titles that the rules of the struggle apply within.

For FoI’s struggle, we’ve used the ol’ reliable world_europe_west_iberia region that’s been in the title since launch, but any region or combination of regions can be defined in the appropriate parameter. At the moment, these are static and only take regions, but we’re considering other options (e.g., titles, regions selected as part of the starting effect, etc.) for the future.

Cultures and faiths are regarded as either involved or not. This defines whether a specific culture or faith is seen as being a part of the “in-group” for the region, even when members of that in-group may occasionally (or frequently) be very hostile to each other. For the Iberian Struggle, for instance, a Castilian and an Andalusian both understand the changing nature of the peninsula instinctively in a way that an Anglo-Saxon would struggle to acclimate to.

Cultures become involved either on first starting a struggle, manually via script, or automatically when a certain percentage of their total counties are within the struggle region (the number is set per struggle, currently at 80% for the Iberian Struggle).

Hybrids and divergent cultures automatically become involved if they convert at least one county within the region on creation.

Neither cultures nor faiths lose their involvement automatically. Once they’re in, they’re in permanently, unless manually removed via script. For Fate of Iberia, this is necessary to keep the ruling class of al-Andalus, predominantly culturally insular families of Arabs or Berbers, involved, but it’s generally there to prevent wonky behaviour with struggles incorporating cultures and faiths from beyond their region who don’t actually have county within it.

A simpler example would be a hypothetical Anglo-Norman struggle for after the Conquest. We’d probably want to set Norman up as an involved culture, and wouldn’t want them to immediately become uninvolved because there are no Norman counties in the British Isles.

But Characters Tho?​

Within the region, characters are defined by their personal involvement: the degree to which they’re considered part of the ongoing medley of social and cultural fluctuations that define an active struggle, and so how other characters (and counties) treat them. There are three levels to involvement:

• Involved
• Interloper
• Uninvolved

Involved characters are those who are wholeheartedly engaged in the unique power dynamics of the struggle, and seen as insiders within the region. They may differ wildly from other involved characters, but involved characters are generally considered to appreciate the minutiae that make a struggle play differently from the rest of the world. Both their culture and faith must be flagged as being involved in the struggle, and either their capital is located within the struggle region or, if they’re unlanded, they’re physically there.

Interlopers are active within a struggle’s region but don’t quite grasp exactly how or why people from the region act the way they do. They generally don’t benefit from variant struggle rules as much as involved characters, but also aren’t as heavily restricted by them. Either their culture, their faith, or both are not flagged as being involved in the struggle, but their capital (or physical location if landless) is located within the region.

Uninvolved characters are outsiders and outlanders. Their concerns are remote to the struggle region, and even if they’re originally from that region, their isolation from it makes them lose touch with its subtleties and current events. Regardless of culture or faith, if their capital is located outside of the struggle region (or if they’re landless and physically not there), a character is considered uninvolved in that struggle. Uninvolved characters are generally expected to take penalties for holding counties within a struggle region, encouraging them to either delegate to vassals with a better level of involvement, or else getting more involved themselves.

Phases​

Alright, so we know how a struggle covers an area, and how people are divided up into categories within that area. What do these categories and this area actually do?

For that, we need to look to phases.

Each phase reflects a sort of mood or temperament within a struggle region specific to that struggle, the outcome of many prior actions leading to a shifting tide of general opinion about what is and isn’t acceptable. Maybe some things that were taboo become mainstream for a time, and things otherwise considered acceptable are baulked at by even very conservative characters.

Though we’ll talk about how exactly you transition between phases a bit more in a moment, it’s worth noting that each phase has at least one (and usually more) future phase predefined for it, a phase that actions take in the course of play will gradually move the region’s “mood” towards.

Within the Iberian Struggle, phases are on a loosely even cycle: though there’s some lateral movement and backtracking possible, they mostly move evenly in a circle. This is purely a design choice, and more esoteric flows are entirely scriptable.

Manifesting the Mood​

The actual effects of each phase can be split into three broad categories - parameters, character modifiers, and county modifiers. These are then further split by the involvement of different characters.

Parameters work similarly to doctrine parameters in faiths, or tradition parameters for cultures. They’re special rules, entirely defined within script (and so fully moddable) that can be referred to elsewhere in script to unlock unique content, provide special exemptions, or block off specific actions.

For example: in one phase, involved characters might be able to intermarry between faiths, in another, interlopers might receive cheaper holy wars whilst involved characters have them blocked entirely, and in both uninvolved characters may be blocked from culture converting involved cultures.

As with other breeds of parameter, struggle parameters are identified purely by their exact spelling and can thus be reused simply by duplicating them, either within a struggle or in other struggles, making them very versatile rules.

Character modifiers can be applied directly to involved or interloper characters. This generally chiefly affects involved characters, making some things easier and others harder, but we also use it to let interlopers occasionally have an easier time of bending or breaking local rules. Though these are our current guidelines, since these are all entirely scriptable, they can be changed according to the tonal needs of any given struggle.

Uninvolved characters do not have a character modifier slot - we don’t want characters in India getting negative modifiers for not being involved or interlopers in a struggle in Iberia!

Finally, we have county modifiers. These are applied to any county in the struggle region according to the direct holder of each county and their involvement; they generally have situational variables depending on phase for involved characters, mild to moderate debuffs for interlopers, and moderate to heavy debuffs for uninvolved characters.

Catalysts​

Transitioning from a phase to any of its future phases requires the activation of catalysts: notable events, gameplay actions, and consequences to existing mechanics that drive the current phase towards a specific future phase.

Catalysts themselves can be anything. A war being declared, a type of character being seduced, a certain type of scheme failing, and so on. They’re set inside a phase’s future phase block, and, as with other elements of struggles, are entirely scriptable. Virtually any effect block in the entire title can be made into a catalyst with a bit of thought.

Whenever a catalyst is activated, meaning that the thing that sets them happens, the current phase gains points towards the future phase that that catalyst was tied to (for instance, a notable interfaith marriage might help an uncertainty-focused phase gain points towards a tolerance-focused phase). Catalysts themselves are repeatable and the points they give vary with the difficulty of the catalyst in question - two notable characters becoming soulmates might well be worth more points than a notable character being executed, for instance.

Points for put into simple tallies: when one tally for a future phase is met, that future phase becomes the new current phase, though there’s a grace period of a month before the actual switch.

On the off chance that all of the dozens or hundreds of characters involved in a struggle are being incomprehensibly boring, we should note the existence of one special catalyst: the passage of time. Every phase has a default future phase, and receives a single point per year towards that phase’s tally, representing the natural trend of public discourse towards particular conclusions. This can (and essentially always will) be overridden or exacerbated by more dramatic catalysts being activated, but even in very calm struggle, change is always coming.

Ending Decisions​

A core part of the identity of struggles is that they’re not things that can be solved just by painting the map - after all, if they were, then the Iberian Struggle would’ve ended in its first decade when Musa ibn Nusayr had essentially subjugated the entire peninsula.

We wanted to provide more difficult and interesting goals for ending a struggle than just conquering the whole struggle region. After all, it really doesn’t matter if you’ve conquered everyone if that hasn’t dealt with the underlying societal causes besetting a struggle locale.

Ending decisions are our solution to this, being major, demanding decisions with consequences for the entire struggle region when taken and usually pretty intricate requirements.

In order for a struggle to be endable through the usual flow, at least one phase must have an ending decision defined, though they can be ended manually through script also. The Iberian Struggle has three ending decisions, each tied (both mechanically and thematically) to a different phase).

The Iberian Struggle​

To finish up, let’s take a look at the new Iberian Struggle’s design (though I’ll put an obligatory reminder that this stuff isn’t final and that we generally continue to adjust things as we balance and playtest).

The Iberian Struggle’s phases are Opportunity, Hostility, Compromise, and Conciliation. Opportunity can lead to either Hostility or Conciliation, depending on how the peninsula’s leaders treat each other, whilst both Hostility and Conciliation respectively build or degrade towards Compromise, which in turn decays into Opportunity, starting the cycle again.

In Opportunity, Iberia is approaching a stage of uncertainty after notable spikes (hostile or friendly) in prior relations between faiths and cultures have abated. Struggle modifiers and parameters make war easier and cheaper, changing cultures and faiths easier and cheaper, but also unlock interfaith marriages and block off holy wars. Friendly interrelations between disparate characters activate catalysts guiding it towards Conciliation, whilst violent ones do the same for Hostility.

For Hostility, aggressive actors have brought tensions to a simmering fever pitch, and even the slightest differences may be cause for aggressive persecution. The phase’s effects make wars cheaper and more brutal for all involved, reduce economic and technological progress, and increase the capacity of many characters for hostile schemes. Violence can’t persist forever though, and either efforts at building bridges or simple exhaustion will eventually bring even the most violent Hostility phase towards Compromise.

Standing opposite Hostility is Conciliation, where pragmatic politicking builds bridges between even very disparate realms. Characters in this phase aren’t really tolerant by the modern meaning of the word, but many of the harsher biases of their time are temporarily dropped or ignored in the name of expediency. Wars become more expensive and truces longer, but there’s opportunity to unite against outsiders intervening in Iberian matters, and ruling over more multicultural and multifaith realms becomes easier and more beneficial.

Periods of interreliance like this don’t generally last. Granted privileges decay, ignored biases relapse, and power-hungry nobles tear down bridges for short-term gain. Even the most wholeheartedly supported Conciliation phase decays towards Compromise eventually.

Finally, Compromise. In this phase, Iberia has reached a point of equilibrium. Wars are less likely and most costly, but economic investment and other forms of passive stability are easier and better, whilst interfaith marriages flourish. The exhausted pragmatism of Compromise isn’t permanent, and will someday give rise to the cynical dynamism of Opportunity. The cycle begins anew.

Naturally we’ve peppered all of this with phase-specific events, decisions, interactions, the odd CB, and so on. Most phases also add variant unlocking criteria to existing pieces of content, adjusting the circumstances under which things like the Claim Throne scheme or Found Holy Order decision can be used - most commonly temporarily extending them to characters who’d usually not have access.

Say you don’t want to move on from a phase, though. Maybe you think Hostility’s the place for you, or you’d prefer a more permanent Conciliation, and want to break the endless cycle of social transmutation - well, unless you wanted permanent Opportunity, you’re in luck, because we’ve got ending decisions for Hostility, Compromise, and Conciliation.

Hostility’s ending decision is Dominance, reflecting the final ascension of one of Iberia’s warring states to a position of not just military dominance, but social and spiritual hegemony.

This gives your house an incredibly powerful modifier, making county and faith conversion within Iberia markedly faster, improving relations with those who share your faith or culture but markedly worsening them with other involved cultures or faiths, and making Holy Wars and Conquests cheaper and easier to access. It requires holding several important duchies, having a monocultural, monofaith primary kingdom, and being the only major player independent ruler in Iberia.

Conciliation’s ending decision is Détente, making temporary accommodations into more permanent ones.

Involved cultures gain a huge amount of cultural acceptance with each other, a house modifier that improves the opinion of different faiths and cultures, and several signature mechanics of the Conciliation phase become permanent for involved culture characters within Iberia: namely, interfaith marriage and disabled holy wars. Additionally, Iberian characters may join defensive wars for targets within Iberia against any aggressor from outside of Iberia.

It requires a certain level of fame, being allied to every other independent involved Iberian ruler, and completely controlling an Iberian kingdom without controlling more than a certain fraction of Iberian territory.

Compromise’s ending decision is Status Quo. Where Dominance is enforcing will and Détente finding accommodation, Status Quo is accepting that times have changed, that attempts to unite the peninsula are futile, and that its peoples and realms should go their separate ways and leave their neighbours be.

Status Quo balkanises Iberia, transferring duchies to connected kingdoms if appropriate and making every kingdom within Iberia its own de jure empire whilst permanently destroying Hispania. Ruling houses across the former struggle region gain a modifier for two centuries making them better at fighting in lands of their own cultural heritage, whilst the capital counties of all independent rulers become strongholds for the next century. Some CBs within Iberia become more expensive.

The requirements for Status Quo are a bit byzantine, essentially because it functions as the opt out decision if Dominance or Détente prove too difficult to work towards. If Iberia can’t be subjugated or coerced into cooperation then, in extremis, it can always be destroyed.

Future Use​

The Iberian Struggle is our first go at a struggle system, and it’s one we’re fairly pleased with. That said, we’ve certainly taken note of how the feature seems to have caught the popular imagination over the last week or so, and we’re very interested to hear your thoughts now that there’s a bit more information available. Needless to say, modders will be able to utilise this mechanic and share their creations from the release of 1.6 onwards.

So, are there parts of the system you’d like to see refined and made more flexible? What are the struggles you’d like to see made in future? What’s your jankiest idea for hope for how to use the struggle system?

As ever, I’ll be around in the thread for the next hour or so to answer your queries.

 

[Wokeg]

I would like to see an investiture struggle.

Interesting choice!

Could the struggle system be implemented to England during the Norse invasions?

It's not at the moment, but it certainly could be. Personally I think the timeframe there is a little short for it, but it would depend on implementation.

Is this like border conflicts but taken to the extreme?

There's elements of that in the Iberian Struggle, but it doesn't, strictly speaking, have to be.

Definitely would love to see some sort of struggle implemented for England, trying to swing it for the Anglo-Saxons/Normans/Norwegians. Perhaps if you're going from the earlier start one for the Norse Invasions would make more sense where it can end similar to Iberia with a status quo of smaller kingdoms.

I've seen this one crop up a lot in various public forums!

Could you give some more examples of regions where the struggle system will be implemented in the 867 start date?

Strictly speaking, no. At the moment there are no other regions where the struggle system will be implemented - Iberia is our first struggle. I've got a handful of personal favourites that I know I'd like to try and which those unfortunate enough to be within rambling distance of me are very well aware of, but I don't think I'm allowed to share those.

 

[Wokeg]

Well, I think the Danelaw/Anglo-Saxon struggle is something fans would like to see in the future, perhaps retrofitted into the Northern Lords pack. It wouldn't make sense to make a whole new Norse themed DLC just for that, unless it heavily focuses on the Anglo-Saxons and other cultures in England. Other than that, the struggle mechanic would fit literally anywhere where there are big groups of cultures and religions clashing. It's good stuff.

As a side note, I haven't seen any new cloaks in any of the new screenshots, which I find just a tiny bit disappointing. I see a lot of them in the various new artworks though, which just makes me want them all the more. Are we not getting any?

I'm very sorry to say that Art tells me we do not have any cloaks planned for this DLC - we do, however, have some of the biggest and fanciest hats yet added to the title.

Second, I'd really love to see you guys work on a version, that can be triggerable. Like whenever the power balances in a region is massive messed up. Like if you conquer and form an empire where there wasn't one. Or if you remove the only powerful neighbor, and leave yourself as 10+ times stronger (at max troop capacity) than any of your neighbors.
Beyond that, I think this would be a base to use to work on a mini crisis within Kingdoms and Empires for Female/Male inheritance (in one sex favored systems Ag/cognat preferences), regencies, and even bankruptcy. I could also, see a potential for succession struggles, since these were common, and could last years with people often ruling for months before being deposed by siblings or other relatives (To make these more dynamic, you could give the player an option to play as the winner of a succession struggle, similar to appointees for crusades).

Yeah, I'm rather interested in the possibilities of a more dynamically triggered region-agnostic struggle like this. We'd need to make the region variable, but that's doable... worth some thought on our part, at least.

This looks incredible. Do struggles have the potential to naturally develop or will they be the result of fixed conditions simulating historical events. Are there any struggles outside of Iberia to begin with or are they too intensive to code? Might we expect a struggle to be a standard component of a Flavor Pack moving forward?

At the moment, it's just the Iberian Struggle. We may well see struggles in future flavour packs or expansions, but they're not a standard component for every DLC. Our first struggle is very much a result of fixed conditions (it technically starts in the history files in... I think 719?), but there's nothing stopping struggles from being set up to happen more naturalistically except for the preset region.

I really like the concept and can't wait to see how it works out. Maybe if it works out quite well and could be expanded as a general feature for Empire under a dispute rather than an Iberia-specific one.

However there is one thing, I might be a minority but this could be split into multiple DDs, and started the introduction a few weeks earlier. With more screenshots perhaps.

Valid feedback, thank you!

Maybe in a future expansion you could have a more explosive version of a struggle called a crisis?

Well, we only just got struggles, so lets see how these pan out before we go talking about anything like that.

BTW, we're not forced to become an Empire after dominating the peninsula, are we? I rather like being a King instead of an Emperor.

You are not! Creating Hispania is locked behind resolving the struggle (to keep things a bit more interesting), but resolving the struggle does not automatically create Hispania.

 

[Wokeg]

Not sure if it's a good fit for the system, but maybe an adapted struggle system lends itself for southern France. Catharism and the Albigensian crusade were an important episode deciding the future of that region, but the integration of the Languedoc into France had a lot of interesting aspects to it (including family ties to the Kings of France and Aragon), and I'd love to see this complexity reflected in game mechanics that go beyond "me adopting Catharism, getting roflstomped by the pope".

Oooh, the Cathars, not seen that one yet!

Hold on a second, you've explained how cultures can become involved later on in a struggle, but how can another *faith* become involved in a struggle after the struggle has begun?

For example, if Haesteinn decides to invade Galicia in the Iberian Struggle, what does it take for Norse to become an involved faith?

Same mechanic, I'm afraid, so new smaller faiths can get in, but most larger ones practically won't be able to.

Maybe a Catholic/Orthodox struggle?

^^' That might be a mite bit too large!

Maybe a struggle for a year or two for realms under partitions after previous ruler died? And where there will be three endings "dominance" where one person gets go rule all, "status quo" where everything remains the same just like after partition and "kinship" where you get alliances made with your siblings against outside threats?

I think this is something we'd really like to explore at some point.

Do regions = empire level?

I'd certainly like a struggle for the High Kingship mechanic for Ireland given that the provinces and even dynasties fighting for dominance in 867 are the same as those fighting in 1066.

The ebb and flow of struggle could be altered by region specific activities such as hostage taking, making tributaries, dividing duchies amongst rivals (could be region specific for a certain phase), supporting certain churches against each other and perhaps in a later phase, the church in Rome. Other elements like placing your favoured candidates on rival thrones as well as forming grand alliances to keep other members in check could also work. Throw in feudalisation, Norse cities, and in a later stage, the English and you could have a struggle that could last 300 years.

Technically, a region can be as small as a one-barony county, whilst the largest literally includes the entire map.

Ahhhh, that's a tasteful concept!

Are there mixed catalysts? Say, two characters of diferent faiths eloping together could both be seen as a positive act of overcoming differences at the same time that could be seen as a hostile action by one house head losing control over who their house members are marrying

Not in the Iberian Struggle, but there's nothing stopping that from being scripted. ^^' Funnily enough, it's something I considered early on, but we tried to focus on clear fundamentals for the first time folks'd be interacting with the system.

Apart from the England - Normal struggle that everyone mentions, I would love to see a Norsemen - Slavic struggle. Also, a struggle in the holy land would be interesting. I hope that as time goes on, these struggles will be implemented and of course, some from the other parts of the world as India or Africa. I have no ideas for those regions tho.

Norse-Slavic, that's an uncommon pick!

For the struggle examples, I think that post-4th crusade Byzantium is an easy fit for a mid/late game struggle appearing.

Music to my ears.

I crave to have the struggle mechanic pop up In France, Germany and France after a foreign culture/religion (Islam) conquers these Christian areas. It'd be much more interesting than just blobbing all the area, or at least have some special mechanics caused by such a blob!

Ahhh, like a more dynamic version of the core idea here? That's a cool one.

Seems great! Keep up the good work!
I agree with the guy who suggested the investiture struggle, but should be along with a rework with... well... investiture.

About England, it seems a way too short timeframe to me, but I don't know.

I'd like to see an Italian peninsula struggle, between all the duchies there.

Something in Italy, and something for investiture, are both excellent ideas. I do agree that I think the Norse invasions in the British Isles are a bit too short term, but it's still fun to see what folks're interested in.

Looking forward to this!

Is there a plan to use the struggle mechanism for more general events e.g. in case of a succession crisis?

Not specifically, but we're keeping our options open.

Also other struggles I can think of:

- Jerusalem is a must tbh;

- India

- Central Europe can be either Christians Vs Pagans or Pagans Vs other Pagans. Especially for the Prussian region.

A Central European struggle? Neat!

Interesting. How easy will it be for the player to influence the Struggle?

It feels like it will make playing Iberia easier. At the moment if you start off as Christian, you are constantly fighting holy wars. With the struggle, it feels like the tactic is go conciliation until you can build enough military power and then go hostile and holy war.

Depends who you're playing and the phase, but relatively easy to influence, relatively hard to completely control.

Just to toss my five cents at this, I would argue that such a struggle would extend up to 1085, when King Knut of Denmark basically gives up his claim to England.
With a period of Compromise, with the Danelaw being Conciliation and Compromise from 884 until 1002 with the St Brice's day Massacre. Which followed by the two cultures more or less alternating control. And periods of hostility from 865-884, and 1002 to 1085, with maybe an ending as Dominance.

Worth pointing out that these phases and ending decisions are Iberia specific - future struggles would be expected to have their own phases and ending decisions.

Also will the AI in the region actively try to influence the struggle?

Generally yes! Many catalysts are things they'll look to do anyway, though some are a bit more player-focused.

Can there be a struggle between just two cultures, rather than faiths? It would be fun to use that technique to simulate the Hundred Years' War

Faith is a required component at the moment, but there's nothing stopping someone from only adding the one involved faith.

 

[PDXOxycoon]

Is this struggle system fully moddable and scriptable or some cannot be modded because it's hardcoded,i.e,can we create new struggle ,phases and so on through modding or not?

Fully moddable! New struggles, phases, the works!

 

[Wokeg]

The Byzantine-Turkic struggle for first the Anatolian plateau (when the Turks were still mostly pastoralists) and then second for the Byzantine heartland comes to mind. It did span historically several centuries (pre Manzikert 1071 till 1453) and involved a whole region.

[subtle-unsubtle scribbling]

Might we see some of them being set up outside of DLC if they're appropriate to be struggles, but don't fit the themes of a given DLC?

For example, Britain 867 - 1066; something modelling struggles like the war of the roses (very late in CK3's period, but plausible to happen anywhere, anywhen); the Hundred Years War; the Crusades even (although this is *probably* more suited to a major DLC, say one on religion...); maybe the formation of Russia?

I'd certainly like to personally, but per the usual, no promises, I'm afraid.

As an Englishman I am obliged to both thumbs up any mention of the Hundred Years War and point out that the Wars of the Roses are, sadly, technically outside of our time period - they started in 1455 and our last year is 1453. Certainly some interesting choices, though!

What is the reasoning behind making every independent ruler an Emperor if deciding for status quo? I get the reasoning behind destroying Hispania. I don't get making Kings into Emperors.

To be clear: kingdoms become empire titles, every independent ruler doesn't become an emperor. Though they would then have an easier time creating those titles.

Wouldn't that prevent empires like the Almohads from getting involved.

Something for the Byzantine Empire (Struggle for Constantinople) to simulate internal politics, periods of strength, stability, decay, foreign invasions.

Also something for the Karling Realms, with a clear endgoal towards establishing the Holy Roman Empire. Maybe too short, though.

Nope - a good deal of Arabic and Berber cultures that were ruling class members for al-Andalus are pre-emptively involved. The Almohads themselves would simply remain interlopers (which they, at least at first, sorta were) till they convert enough counties within Iberia.

Can a character join two struggles at the same time?
Also, with Status Quo, if a foreign interloper managed to reunite the peninsula,will there be a decision for him to bring Hispania back?

You hypothetically could but we'd generally recommend against that as a default - it'd be very easy to end up in situations where you've got +X% of Y modifier from one struggle and -Z% of Y modifier from another. We hope to address some of this in the future with some clever modifier shenaniganery.

I want to kiss you on the mouth.

I can't believe this is a flavour pack, this looks so awesome.

I take cash or card or alcohol.

More seriously, though, glad you're hyped! Many, many people have touched the design and implementation of this system, it's been through a lot of revisions, and especially our UX designers have worked absolute miracles taking a really high concept design and making it into something not only parseable but actively intuitive.

Awesome DD! I can't stress this enough.

Greater flexibility in how to set the struggle region will of course be great, although that's not the most limiting factor for things I have in mind.

My two top most-wanted things now are definitely:

- a game rule to determine who's a legit raid target, for anyone allowed to raid: we can determine who gets to raid, but not who they get to raid.

- a way to call in temporary war allies, either through a scripted rule, or through an additional parameter in CBs

I will use the Viking invasions of England as an example for both. Let's say the Danelaw gets reworked as a Struggle. One phase could prevent Norse rulers in the Struggle region from raiding Christian rulers. Another phase could allow for any ruler in the target region to call neighbours to their defense against Northern invasions - even if they're not proper allies. The possibilities would be awesome.

I'm hoping to use Struggles in my Tribal Trouble mod as a way to rework the Feudalization process, and both of those would be the greatest things I could hope for to make it happen.

Interesting. Thanks for the notes!

Italy would certainly be another good place for struggles, given the political situation and the number of invasions it experienced

Yeah, intriguing how many people seem after that...

Good evening,very interesting mechanic but question;
Is this struggle system fully moddable and scriptable or some cannot be modded because it's hardcoded,i.e,can we create new struggle ,phases and so on through modding or not?
Thanks for any replies about this.

There are some elements that can't be decided on the fly (region being the biggest at the moment). New struggles, struggle phases, struggle catalysts, and struggle parameters are all scriptable.

Are "sub-struggles" possible with the new system? E. g. would it be possible, to have the Iberian struggle being a part of an even bigger struggle with it's own conditions and can struggles overlap?

I suppose you technically could but I'd strongly advise against it. Overlapping struggles invite weird behaviour where modifiers and parameters conflict. ^^'

They should've sent a poet... this is amazing!

Glad you like it.

I'd love to see something like a Carolingian struggle with a focus on dynasties/houses that could end with a renewed Carolingian Empire or the formation of France and the HRE (the game really needs a way for the AI to form the HRE) as separate entities with involved characters being Karlings, Capets and other famed houses of the era while you can also get to participate through marriages or raising your dynastic splendor.

Ooph, what an excellent idea!

I would love to see Struggle about muslim conquest of India.

That could certainly be fun.

 

[Pdx_Meedoc]

Most of this looks great, but I have some concerns about the above. This is worryingly similar to Fervor - a system in which a quantity increases and decreases according to character actions. So far, this type of system has not worked well. Fervor doesn't feel like it increases and decreases in a natural manner, and I'm concerned that catalysts will feel the same. It's especially concerning that catalysts include things like seduction - the current AI seduction is a complete disaster. Characters seduce one another for seemingly no reason (other than poorly coded event logic). Is building Struggles on such a shaky foundation a good idea? If Struggle progress is balanced around the current broken AI behavior, will that become an obstacle to making the AI behave more reasonably, since now any such changes will break the balance of Struggles?

It just feels like if I were going to build something that depends on how the AI seduces, schemes, etc., I would want to make sure those ducks were in a row before I started depending on them.

The progress towards a phase is never reduced. It's more of a race between the two potential future phases.

We also adjusted the AI intent for characters within the Iberian Struggle to pursue catalysts. When a character joins the Struggle, they receive an agenda and will act accordingly. This agenda is hidden however, but might be deduced by observing how they behave.

Is there a way for an uninvolved power to overcome a Struggle through intervention? Say, if the Iberian struggle is unresolved but the resurgent Roman Empire rolls in and holds the peninsula for decades, would they eventually be able to overcome the local pressures or would the struggle remain active indefinitely, draining any outside invader?

This is a general concern that only increases as more regions get their appropriate Struggles. Yes, map painting is not the playstyle that is being supported here and that's good, but it also creates a railroading situation where some cultures and faiths are easier to displace than others based on the Struggles involving them.

We have indeed a fourth way of ending the Struggle, but only for non-Involved characters