Dev Diary #140 - Legacy of Persia & 1.11 'Peacock' Free Update

[Trin Tragula]

Hello and welcome to this last development diary for Legacy of Persia!

With the release drawing near, what I have to share today, apart from general excitement, is the list of upcoming achievements and the update notes for 1.11 ‘Peacock’! As with previous achievements our aim has been to have a good mix of achievements with a focus on new features, the new struggle and the focus region of the flavor pack itself.

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Legacy of Persia Achievements​

Easy Achievements​

Rich in Diversity​

As a character of a faith with the Jizya or Tax Nonbelievers doctrines, have ten vassals of other faiths.

Abbasid Might​

Take the Renewed Caliphate ending in the Iranian Intermezzo Struggle.

Royal Flush​

As a character of a faith with the Fedayeen doctrine, dispose of a lowborn, a king, and an emperor.

Hard Achievements​

Iranian Revival​

Take the Iranian Resurgence ending in the Iranian Intermezzo Struggle.

All Your Caliphate Are Belong To Us​

Take the Dominate the Caliph foundation as part of the Abbasid Humiliation ending in the Iranian Intermezzo Struggle.

Shia Reborn​

Take the 'Found a New Caliphate' foundation as part of the Abbasid Humiliation ending in the Iranian Intermezzo Struggle.

Mulct Them Dry​

Loot four Illustrious-tier Vizier Extravagance modifiers from your Vizier.

Fiscal Responsibility​

Fill five Tax Collector slots with excellent aptitude characters.

Very Hard​

The Umayyad Strikes Back​

Starting as a member of the Umayyad dynasty, hold the Empire of Arabia and the Sunni Caliphate.

Darius Revenge​

As a character of Iranian heritage, hold the Empire of Persia, Kingdom of Thessalonika, and Kingdom of Hellas.

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1.11 Peacock Changelog​

Legacy of Persia Features​

• Added the Iranian Intermezzo Struggle covering the conflict in Iran between the Caliphate and resurgent Iranian dynasties. The struggle can be ended by fulfilling one of three decisions or by triggering the “Concession” ending phase. During the struggle supporters and detractors of the Caliph will have access to new rules, decisions, interactions and events.
• Added a new Dynasty Legacy: Brilliance, focusing on reclaiming the glory of the old dynasties of Persia.
• Added a new UI Skin for Iranian Heritage cultures and characters living in the region.
• New Portrait Assets: added new hairstyles, clothes, and beards in the Greater Iranian region.
• Added many new events, decisions and interactions when playing in the Greater Iranian area relating to the new Struggle, Zoroastrianism, Islam, Clan realms, characters traveling in the Iranian Region, Tax Collectors, and more.
• Added a number of new Cultural Traditions to Iranian culture: Fierce Independence, Pragmatic Creed, Jirga, Enlightened Magnates, Beacon of Learning, Irrigation Experts, and Frontier Warriors.
• Added new types of Men at Arms: Asawira (unlocks within the Brilliance dynasty legacy), Tarkhan (unlocks from Frontier Warriors), Zupin (unlocks from Pragmatic Creed), and Tawashi (unlocks from Fierce Independence).
• Added two Extra Tax Decrees when playing inside the Iranian region. Dehqan and Maguh. For more about tax decrees see Clan Vassals under Free Features.
• Added a new Court Scholar court position for cultures with the Beacon of Learning cultural tradition. When employed, court scholars will over time increase in skill and good or excellent Court Scholars can be sponsored to create a Research Project inspiration, resulting in new innovations for your culture or new modifiers for your clan. Court Scholars also have an increased chance of gaining the book or alchemy inspirations.
• Added a new Master Assassin court position which boosts murder schemes. Rulers with a faith that belongs to a faith with the Fedayeen tenet can recruit Master Assassins.
• Added 3 new struggle music tracks as well as 3 new Persian Region Mood Tracks.

Free Features​

• Added a new bookmark page for Iran in 867, with recommended playable characters and biographies.
• House Unity is a new measure of the internal stability in the ruling house of a Clan realm. Unity comes in 5 levels, from Antagonistic to Harmonious and is shaped by the actions taken by clan members towards each other. Clans with high unity levels will enjoy a high level of internal stability while making conquest harder while those with a low unity level will be better at conquering new lands but be internally unstable. Each level unlocks special rules, decisions, interactions and abilities.
• Clan Vassals can now be assigned to Tax Jurisdictions, handled by a Tax Collector. Depending on the aptitude of the Tax Collector and what Tax Decree is assigned to the Jurisdiction the associated Vassals will provide and enjoy different benefits and penalties. The existing Vassal obligations, Ghazi, Iqta and Jizya, are now Tax Decrees in the new system.
• Viziers: Clan realms of duchy tier or above can now assign a landless character to be their Vizier. Viziers provide extra tax jurisdictions and their aptitude helps all tax collectors in the realm. The more empowered they are the bigger the benefits, though Viziers may also try to embezzle your funds. Vizier excesses can be fined via the Mulct interaction. A Vizier can also substitute your spouse in the confidant counselor position, if you desire.
• When starting in 867 the Turkic Seljuk dynasty will now invade Iran in the late 10th century, an associated game rule can regulate when the invasion happens.
• Added event chain for the Zanj Rebellion in lower Mesopotamia shortly after the start of the 867 campaign.
• Added a number of new special buildings in the Iranian region: The Minaret of Jam, the Walls of Gorgan, Alamut Castle, Falak-ol-Aflak Citadel, the Dome of Soltaniyeh, The Rainbow Mountains, the Imam Reza Shrine, the Sar-i Sang mines, the Ark of Bukhara, the Tomb of Batsheba, and Maharloo Lake Necropolis of Rostam, Tomb of Cyrus the Great, Palace of Ctesiphon, and the ancient Mines of Sar-i Sang.

Balance​

• Cost for disinheriting bastard children or children with disputed heritage is lowered. If the illegitimacy is a secret and the father knows the secret, the cost is lowered and the secret is revealed.
• Certain Wars will now resolve quicker, as the warscore from battles and attacker occupations have been increased by 150%: conquests (county & duchy), holy war (county & duchy), subjugation, vassalization, struggle clash, border raid, expel interloper, and excommunication war.
• Conquest & Invasion CBs now have a dynamic cost scaling with realm size, this should make the CB's cheaper for smaller realms and more expensive for very large ones.
• Chthonic Redoubts are no longer impossible to convert in Mountains (-75% instead of -100%).
• De Jure CBs are now available one era earlier than before.
• Forming the HRE is now possible using any core Carolingian kingdom, not just East Francia, and the De Jure can now include the Empire of Francia if West Francia or enough Francian kingdoms are part of the realm of the one forming the HRE.
• Rebalanced the Piety & Prestige costs for Conquests and Invasions to make them more accessible for smaller realms.
• Reduced prestige gain from Amenities and exceeding your Grandeur level.
• Reduced prestige gain from the Marauder Accolade.
• Removed all sources of prestige % gain bonus from innovations to reduce inflation (total 20%).
• Significantly reduced Prestige gain from Artifacts (monthly gains, prestige per dread/knight, etc).
• Slightly reduced prestige % bonuses from Diplomacy lifestyle perks.
• Slightly reduced prestige from the Bodyguard position.
• Switched some innovations around for Arabic Heritage cultures so that the Caliph can revoke titles on game start.
• The AI should now have a much easier time forming the HRE from an 867 start.
• The AI no longer pays Prestige to revoke Court Positions, as they would never abuse court positions in the first place - and the prestige loss would cause them to fairly often be unable to declare wars.
• The Mongols now get better Siege Engineer characters.
• The Mongols now have a bonus to cavalry damage and toughness, to offset their lack of Stationing Bonuses.
• The Mongols now spawn with trebuchets instead of mangonels.
• Harm events will no longer target the player by default, only the AI.
• Increased the odds of successfully getting through harm events unscathed from 80:20/50:50/60:40 for poor/average/good options to 40:60/60:40/70:30.
• Reduced the overall likelihood of harm events of all kinds by an order of magnitude (except for the general incapability due to age chainlet), and of incapability foreboding events specifically by a further half again.
• Camel cavalry accolade only gives bonuses to camel cavalry.
• The Create Cadet Branch is now available for Clan Members only if they are in another realm than their House Head.
• Some common activity pulse actions now grant mystic lifestyle experience for pilgrimages and witch rites.
• If you have an epiphany about the sanctity of nature during a hunt you will also get some mystic lifestyle experience (this is another activity pulse action, though somewhat rarer than the very common one for pilgrimages).
• You will get Mystic Lifestyle experience for visiting points of interest in religious sites and wonders while traveling. This is not restricted to religious sites of your own religion, and it also means it's easier to get mystic XP once more grand cathedrals are built up later in the game.
• Added Mystic Lifestyle experience to some events, mainly travel ones that already had to do with mystics.
• Holding a mystical communion will grant some mystic xp.

AI​

• Lowered the value of higher tier alliances and increased the penalty for Female above 30 years.

Interface​

• Character modifiers can be now clicked and display an expanded view of all existing modifiers. Players can now see all modifiers on the character, and not only the first 10 items.
• Show a difficulty warning in the lobby for rulers in regency.
• Remove decision_custom_widget_container option from decision configuration window.
• Remove decision_has_second_step for decisions. Now if a decision needs to use the custom step, the decision must specify decision_to_second_step_button.
• The MaA stats shown in their tooltip in the military view now properly adds bonuses from being stationed, like they already do in the separate MaA window.
• Added steam rich presence for Iberian Struggle.
• Added steam rich presence for Persian Struggle.
• Clan Rulers now display their house crest instead of their main title coat of arms in the bookmark screen.
• Significantly reduced the amount of suggestions for hostages.

Art​

• Added Managed Forest to the Barbershop backgrounds.
• Added Coat of Arms: 26 new coats of arms, between muslim and Iranian imagery and writing.
• Added 6 Event backgrounds (Bathhouse, Cave, Zoroastrian Temple, Iranian Courtyard, Iranian Docks and Iranian Throneroom).
• Added 3 Male Iranian Nobility Clothes (with low and high nobility variations).
• Added 3 Female Iranian Nobility Clothes (with low and high nobility variations).
• Added 1 Iranian Armor (male and female).
• Added 1 Iranian War Helmet (male and female).
• Added 2 Turkic-heritage headgear (Count and Duke level, male).
• Added 8 Iranian-Heritage headgear (Count, Duke, King and Emperor levels, both male and female).
• Added Disfigured Mask for Iranian and Turkic characters.
• Added 3 Iranian Beard Styles.
• Added 6 Iranian Hairstyles (3 male and 3 female).
• Added 8 patterns for Iranian clothes (with 8 trim variations).
• Added new Iranian Military Unit Models (3 levels).
• Added Iranian-Heritage holding 3D Meshes and Illustrations (Castles and Cities).
• Added Zoroastrian holding 3D Meshes and Illustrations (Temples).
• Added unique art for 6 Court artifacts (Sassanian Sword, Peacock Throne, Oxus Bracelet, Turkic Casket, Achaemenid Drinking Vessel, Incense Burner Cat Sculpture).
• Added 14 new Special Building Meshes (Minaret of Jam, Alamut Castle, Ark of Bukhara, Falak-ol-Aflak Citadel, Great Mosque of Samarra, Great Wall of Gorgan, House of Wisdom, Imam-Reza Shrine, Maharloo Lake, Mount Damavand, Palace of Ctesiphon, Rainbow Mountain, Soltaniyeh, Tomb of Cyrus).
• Trait Icons for Extolled by House, Accused of Decadence, Supporter and Detractor of the Caliphate.
• Added 6 Men-at-Arms icons and illustrations (Asawira, Mubarizun, Tarkhan, Tawashi, Zupin Spearmen, Ayyar).
• Added 11 Decision (and Story Event) Illustrations.
• Added New Loading Screen.
• Added 5 Icons for House Unity levels.
• Added Iranian Skin for the HUD.
• Added 8 Tax Decree Icons.
• Added Tax Collection alerts and icons.
• Added 2 Religious Tenet Illustrations (Communal Possessions and Fedayeen).
• Added 7 Cultural Tradition Illustrations (Frontier Warriors, Jirga, Beacon of Learning, Pragmatic Creed, Fierce Independence, Garden Architects, Irrigation Experts).
• Added Legacy Track Illustration (Brilliance).
• Art Script: Split up the portrait modifiers to different files with groups based on priority. Higher priority value means it will override any modifiers with lower priority. This way we don't have to weigh everything against everything else; instead, we can know with certainty that armors, for example, will always override regular clothes. Scripted characters are now found in the priority just above base modifiers, with priority 2.
• Art Script: Changed the old way of assigning accessories to scripted characters. Instead of per-accessory we now do per-character. So, each character has a single entry in a single file where all their accessories are added. This goes for developer characters as well.
• Fixed an issue where many western women wouldn't wear any headgear after the year 1300.
• For players with Northern Lords, those cloaks will now be used by more culture groups than just the Norse.
• Fixed certain millennials refusing to wear anything but filthy rags.
• Enforce Divorce interaction now has an icon.

Audio​

• 3 new struggle music tracks.
• 3 new Persian region mood tracks.
• 1 new declare war music track for the Struggle.
• 2 new struggle ending effects for positive and negative outcomes.
• 3 new special building sound effects for the Persian special buildings.
• 2 new bookmark sound effects for the involved Struggle characters.

Localization​

• Fixed Dutch patronymic surnames not being possessive for daughters.
• Fixed broken localization in some Right-Hand Man feed messages.
• Added localization when Influence Ward's Personality interaction is blocked by the Ward having too many traits already.
• Fixed missing text when accused of violating sumptuary law by your liege.
• Fixed row break issue for Simplified Chinese letter event.
• Various other minor localization fixes.

Game Content​

• Added a new set of unique succession laws for Clan, activated by the Unity level.
• Jizya is now a Special Doctrine for most of the Islamic faith except: Alhomadism, Druze, Alevism, Alawite and Qarmatians. The former tenet still exists for custom faiths.
• Ashari now has Legalism instead of Jizya.
• Ismailism now has Mendicant Preachers instead of Jizya.
• Muladism now has Communal Identity instead of Jizya.
• Maturidi now has Legalism instead of Literalism and Adaptive instead of Struggle and Submission.
• Adjusted for community feedback about Life in Color event background, plus adjusted text to compensate.
• Added mother/father and bastard variations for child born memories.

User Modding​

• Add on_action when realm capital is changed.
• Smug Kid is now judging you .
• Enable ignoring interaction recipient cooldowns.
• Added set_house_head effect.
• Added on_building_cancelled effect to the province on actions when construction of a building in the province is canceled.
• Added on_building_started effect to the province on actions when construction of a building begins in the province.
• Added on_canceled effect to building types to execute when construction of a building type is canceled.
• Added on_start effect to building types to execute when construction of a building type starts.
• Added paying character to building effect and on_actions.
• Renamed 'ai_war_chest' to 'war_chest_gold' for consistency.
• Renamed 'war_chest_gold', 'war_chest_prestige', 'war_chest_gold' to 'ghw_'+previous name for consistency.
• Inline values in comparison triggers using = only are now not valid, this is to prevent syntax ambiguity between a scope comparison and a scope change. You must use == for an inline comparison to be explicit.
• Added set_character_secret_faith to set a secret faith on a character.
• Added remove_character_secret_faith to remove the secret faith on a character.
• Added a simpler has_any_artifact_claim trigger and set it to be used by the artifact_war cb to lessen its performance impact.
• Changed bookmark field from default = yes/no to weight = scriptablevalue, used to determine default bookmark.

Databases​

• Updated databases for landholders throughout Iran, ensuring that there are more historical characters to play as, and that all rulers have a suitable amount of vassals on start.
• Updated the 867 start date to better reflect the ongoing conflicts as part of implementing the Iranian Intermezzo struggle.
• Updated the cultural and faith setup of the Greater Iranian region, including adding the new Brahui culture.
• Armenian rulers in 867 and 1066 now start religiously protected, to avoid their faith disappearing much too quickly every game.
• Added Nestorian community to Suyab in Zhetysu in 867, representing their metropolitan see.
• Made the Karenids a cadet house of the ancient Arsacids, from which they descend.
• Merged Abbasids back into the Hashimid dynasty.
• Nizam al-Mulk now starts as Alp Arslan's vizier, and the two have a good working relationship.
• Made Upper/Lower Lotharingia the default duchy titles, with Lorraine a French variant, and added Krain as a German variant of Kranj.
• Added the Sayyid trait to some characters from the Hammudid house who were missing it.

Bug Fixes​

• Temporal, for life doctrine does not allow for the unlimited firing of court chaplains anymore. Except for the first time after starting the game. That one is a freebee. Under the Temporal Clerical Appointment doctrine, the Realm Priest or Court Chaplain seat will not get auto-filled the moment the previous holder dies.
• Event Extracurricular Learning shall never clone or lose a herbalist
• Fixed an Out of Sync that can happen when joining a game where a character who was involved in a struggle has become the leader of a mercenary group.
• Fixed a crash related to expanding weight and prisoner modifiers.
• Fixed toast messages sometimes not showing up.
• Made sure Tournament environment backgrounds show up as they should (jungle was unused).
• You can no longer demand the conversion of someone you're at war with.
• Added missing nickname desc for "the Crownless", which an unnamed cheese-loving designer hid in a secret file away from the rest of the nicknames.
• Changed Tocharian color to differentiate them from the surrounding heritages a bit.
• Unlocked a load of struggle parameters that were previously hardlocked to the Iberian struggle in script, making them a bit more mod-friendly.
• Added a temporary fortification when trying to depose a Diarch with no fort level.
• County modifiers were never recalculated when a struggle ends, so they could keep positive or negative modifiers for a long time after the struggle has completed.
• Denouncing a dynasty member will now always apply the associated trait correctly.
• Fixed war declared overview window pausing observer mode.
• Fixed all instances of incorrect max level of aptitude.
• Fixed an issue where modifiers from vassal contracts were not fully applied correctly.
• Fixed the AI never considering giving gifts to a bankrupt liege in the Send Gift interaction.
• Fixed the filter window in the character list of the struggle involvement window not being clickable if it was sticking out of the main involvement window.
• Hostages will no longer appear as someone you can marry when using Find Spouse interaction.
• The Disrespected Elders modifier from getting yelled at by an old man during Meet Peers activity will now disappear much sooner.
• Adds clarifying text to Succession Law selection window explaining that special title succession laws always take precedence over realm succession laws.
• Children will no longer gain more than 1 childhood trait after turning 3 years old or when generated through templates.
• Fixed any ruler who had their capital as Mecca gaining the Hajjaj trait, instead of only Muslim rulers.
• Fixed incorrect values and loc in Invite to Activity rank difference modifiers.
• Invasion wars will highlight the correct counties in war overview.
• Invasion wars will highlight the correct counties that the attacker is going to win when victorious
• Temporary bride and groom modifiers are now removed if the Wedding is invalidated before completion.
• Reduced amount of AI wearing glasses.
• Fixed Educate Child message not containing any text.
• Fixed all cases where playable starting ruler's governments did not match their holding type.
• Fixed issues with avalanche in county letter event.
• Fixed it being possible to request wards or guardians from other courts if another is already traveling to the target.
• Fixed missing loc for hostile scheme reluctance modifier for own Head of Faith.
• Fixed stated kinswoman/man relations between lowborns with no shared family.
• Fixed traveling wards, guardians, and hostages who were invalidated not returning home.
• Mades some decision titles more stylistically consistent.
• Not returning a hostage upon reaching adulthood will now reduce your Prestige income from hostages, and the chance of other ruler's sending child hostages to you, for 10 years.
• Ensure random_list weights cannot get negative weights.
• Court event "Basileusophile" no longer displays an unlocalized line in the purple undergarment creation option.
• Fixed unavailable option tooltip in Under the Weather travel event.
• Ghazi Status CB piety reduction now only applies to holy wars.
• Removed a minor character from Austria, as their associated barony does not exist.
• Fixed an issue where calling a baron to an offensive war would deduct 700+ prestige.
• Infants will no longer get Wet Nurse events about child development.
• Incapable Clan Vassals will no longer demand your children.

 

[PDXOxycoon]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ghts-cause-ai-to-50-50-event-options.1578209/

Pretty sure I fixed that one... *looks up my list of commits on this patch* Yep, I did.

 

[PDXOxycoon]

That's great news! Now I feel awkward

Don't feel awkward, some times our changelog tool feels moody. Here is the entry I made at least.
- Bugfix: AI event options will now treat negatively weighted options with a weight of zero

What about my bug report about guests not interacting with a activities?

I haven't looked at this one at least. I have personally have limited involvement with Legacy of Persia, so cannot say anything on this one.

 

[Wokeg]

Cool!

Now onwards to the big 2024 DLC.

Waaaaaaay ahead of you .

Man, harm events got nerfed heavily. I know, I shouldn't knock something without trying it (and you can probably turn harm events back on for the player), but I think it was a little heavy-handed. (I'm not a huge fan of the harm events but I see them a necessary evil considering rulers much longer natural lifespans in CK3 compared to CKII...at least until map-wide disease outbreaks come back. But even then, death via old age in your late thirties solely because RNG hated you was possible in II if you were very unlucky.)

I'd rather be incapable then dead, personally. Incapable still enables the suicide decision (so you can "upgrade" from a incapable ruler in a regency to your successor) and regencies are a bit rare. For the odds of coming out unscathed, I'd rather they make it a spectrum instead of all or nothing. I.E. it being possible to survive, but end up badly injured + random maimed/one-legged/one-eyed/blind/eunuch/disfigured. (They'd have to set it up per-event though. Slipping in the tub and getting one-eyed because you fell eye-first onto something makes sense, almost drowning and winding up becoming an eunuch doesn't.)

Glad the AI will have a better time forming the HRE. I'm a bit of a "historical accuracy nut" and it was always a bit disappointing how 867 starts never had the HRE form, but to be fair, I think it was like that in CKII, too. (I felt the same way about that one part of CK3's patch history where William The Conqueror would be Conqueror No More, with Godwinson nearly always winning because he'd form allies with the HRE and stuff.)

Can you please stop treating players with kid gloves? PLEASE?!

But why?

Bit sad that harm events are tuned down (and not for players on default, the option most players use) as I had lot of fun in my 867-1453 campaign thanks to that (no more 80 years characters, but a lot of... hum... surprises, and fun with succession).

They should have at least nerf it but kept it as the default option, so players who only play casually and don't look at game rules can enjoy a surprised death from time to time.

Heya folks! Harm events designer & axer here, and I can see we've got some people upset, so I'll give little context on why this was done: harm events weren't actually an intended part of EP2. They weren't an intended part of anything. They were something I made in my own time because there seemed to be a clear dislike from a vocal part of the community (whose size I think I probably overestimated) for ruler longevity, and I thought I had a good way to help start addressing that.

Problem is, though they really worked for certain types of players, it's rapidly become clear that they're a huge net negative for many more. They're materially unpopular with most players, something reflected in a lot of the feedback we've had since Tours & Tournaments launched: I frequently see them described as misguided at best, often lazy or badly designed, sometimes as just a plaster over deeper gameplay problems or as a rush job thrown in with no real care, and worst of all, as a huge source of quit moments for new players. Though I don't really agree with the harsher criticisms, they definitely ended up a markedly larger pain point than the one they were trying to solve, and for many more people.

So they're now adjusted for wider taste odds-wise and disabled for players by default. If folks still want them, they're there, they can be turned back on as easily as they could be turned off before, but they were an idea that just didn't work out how I'd hoped. Sucks but it happens. We've not abandoned the idea of making characters less long-lived or providing more setbacks and player friction, but we (or I, here, I suppose) don't think that harm events are actually such a good way to do that.

We'll continue to look at other ways to address health and longevity issues, and modifier stacking generally, but likely aiming for stuff that's a bit subtler/more broadly applicable. I'm just not expecting to see the list expanded or get the time allocated to make the generic health loss harm events that I'd hoped to get to do at some point.

If there proves to be sufficient appetite for it, we might add a game rule to revert the survival chances to the original values, but if I'm being frank then even within the small minority of people who liked harm events, the vast majority of those seemed to want increased odds too, so I'm afraid that folks who want harsh chances and random death (at least, in this specific way: again we'll be trying other stuff in future, just not this) are in something of a super-minority.

To me, the default game rule say:
* This is what the game is balanced around.
* This is the experience the developers intend.

So it bothers me that the default, developer-intended, balanced experience is one in which the player is sent out into the game world dressed in bubble wrap. I'm not against game rules as a concept, but I think the defaults should be a strong playing experience, not tutorial mode.

Honestly, I'd personally agree with that assessment of game rule configuration.

I think the problem with this attitude towards these games is that the only people who are guaranteed to be playing the game on default rules are new or casual players, since they are unfamiliar/unskilled with the game mechanics and won’t know what to change. These types of players coincidentally also happen to be the most likely to complain when the game randomly gives them an event where their character has an 80% risk of dying. Since veteran players will just choose the rules they want, why shouldn’t the CK3 team save themselves from the headache of having players rushing to the forums to complain about this mecahnic if they can just change the default configuration of the rules.

Hit a good deal of the nail on the head there, though I will stress that we've also had a lot of complaints from non-newbs too. I suspect that a portion of it comes down to what's realistic not necessarily being immersive and vice versa, as well as immersion varying between player types — sometimes substantially.

 

[Wokeg]

This is a great step forward but what we really need is a Quraysh Dynasty.

A human of taste and culture whose post I shall add to my big collage of Forum Posts With Correct Opinions for use next time the great internal Quraysh vs. Hashimids & Umayyads discussion comes up.

 

[Wokeg]

Exactly what I want. Your new player stop playing when his character dies. I stop playing when my characters is 70 with max health, have 40 in every stats and all perks available and I'm bored as hell because he is a god amongst men like his father and the previous 10 generations.

New players are happy now that they have no harm events, why should I not? I spent years and ungodly amount of money in Para games, doesn't mean I don't count

I actually did do... ahem, a lightly cursed thing, just in case we wanted to rebalance these again in future that should actually make the percentage values easily tweaked now. If you want the old values back literally the second the DLC drops, then:

1. Open \game\common\script_values\10_health_values.txt.
2. Scroll down to the bottom of the file.
3. You should see six values, looking like "harm_event_random_list_low_odd_success_value".
4. Adjust them in pairs down to how you'd like (original values should be in the patch notes), save the file, & boot the title.

... sorted. I realise this isn't your ideal or the most convenient thing, but it'll solve it for you in the ultra short term.

For anything more permanent than that, we'll keep an eye on our social spaces in the usual manner and, if the demand is there, add a game rule. As-is I chose not to because I'm afraid it really is the tiniest minority of people who seem to want the old values and tbh the game rule list is already kinda bloated.

That aside, I do want to say that I hear you when you say you want more lethality and difficulty in the title. I'm happy harm events were able to help a little on that front for you, and I know it must suck when a thing you like gets changed in a way you don't agree with. We're not abandoning you, we will add more ways for people to get hurt and die, and difficulty is an on-going thing we're looking into, it's just that this specific attempt backfired a little too much.

So, I actually havn't complained about these, but ever since they were introduced, I played on default settings, and it felt completely off. (I felt like every ruler got them, and always died). So in my last 2 playthroughs i decided to keep count. Out of 18 rulers, 16 had harm events - one guy got through without anything negative, rest were incapable or dead. About half were below 50

If anyone has had the same experience as I've had on the default settings, i can full Appreciate why they were unhappy. That is just not fun, and honestly doesnt feel Random.

I'm fully aware it's not statistically significant (hense why I use the Word feel), but it really ruined alot of the fun for me!

Aye, this overkill thing was actually a (small) part of the problem with them: see, this doesn't reproduce in testing. QA's never flagged it, I can't reproduce it my end when I test for it, it's largely reported by individuals who are incensed by it and didn't seem to do anything to provoke it. There's no factor I can see that makes it more or less likely, no amount of niche edge-case bugfixing has addressed it, it just doesn't seem to be statistically likely — but it is still possible, if enough things lines up and someone gets unlucky. :| And with a sample size of a few hundred thousand players, more than a few people get very unlucky.

I believe you when you say 16 out of 18 rulers over two playthroughs got harm events, and then I look at my observation games and see a number that's maybe a tenth of that and am left pondering how to reduce the chances of pure bad luck without reinforcing the (already fairly hefty) safeguards for players whilst still keeping things able to happen much at all. Reinforcing the hard lock on subsequent harm events within dynasties was actually a nerf I didn't whack in there in the end, felt like they'd already been hit by everything else and didn't need that too.

Thank you for the explanation.

I didn't have strong opinions on the balance of harm events themselves but definitely got a sense that there was lot of tweaking to do, and it seems perfectly reasonable to me to cut them if they don't work as intended. I generally argue for a more demanding play experience (more "friction" as you call it), but I'm definitely not the type to argue that the players face should be smashed into the gravel and rubbed around either.

To me what's important is that the experience is balanced, challenging, transparent and fair. If harm events weren't cutting it, I'm happy to know you are apparently still working on the problem in a different way.

Your patience is very much appreciated and your concerns are valid! We're looking into other ways to approach all of these things, and that was a contributing factor in my feeling like harm events could be nobbled.

I like the harm events. Rulers in the Middle Ages did die randomly and stupidly sometimes. Plus it keeps you from totally gaming the succession every generation.

But I think my ideal would be: harm events but nerfed a bit (like in this patch), plus increase chance of dying as a commander, plus really tone down character health modifiers (these are the real problem), plus make some diseases more lethal.

All solid notes and all avenues that we're looking into in various ways already! Getting a bit more into the design of it a little, I guess, but my suspicion is that it'll feel a lot more fair to newbs and roleplay-focused peeps if they're struck down by a disease/in battle. Health modifiers are just something we've been too liberal with generally honestly.

Lower general life expectancy by 5 years. Off-set it by increasing the Blood 5 legacy perk life expectancy bonus by an additional 5 years. Life expectancy goes down across the board but players who liked living a bit longer can still take the legacy perk. Painless, clean solution.

Though those are contributing factors I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than that. There's a lot of health modifiers in the game and a lot of health stacking that people can do. I think we'd get a (much deserved) kicking if we did this and declared health gain sufficiently rebalanced.

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I think you're right on the money here. I had hoped that harm events would offer that element of risk and unpredictability, being harsh but fair and occasionally forcing players to reevaluate what their mid-to-long term strategy is. Some people (who I am very grateful for) really liked this, they enjoyed the unexpected wrench in the gears every now and then felt like it was more historic method of play to just have bad luck wallop 'em from time to time. Not every monarch lives to 80, not every healthy 20 year old lasts till 30.

The problem is, for most players, they didn't feel historic, they felt gamey and frustrating. There wasn't the buy-in of "bad luck can strike at any time!", they were instead perceived as "the game has said you will now stop playing it/stop doing the thing you were having fun with!". Harms were intended to help address the ability of players to game around systems and stack modifiers by providing an element of luck that just wouldn't let you game around it (consciously or unconsciously), which was a consistent factor in medieval politics, but that just... didn't feel good for most players, and I think a degree of that is because they removed too much agency. Yes, you couldn't easily play to avoid them and that made them great for countering gaming around them, so they added a degree of difficulty and variability, but that also generally meant that they felt unearnt.

This is fine in a history book but in a game, where most (though by no means all) players expect to be treated semi-fairly/preferentially (even if they don't consciously think that), it can feel a lot more unreasonable than it actually is. It's also not really as simple as adding relevant event chains for all of them ("simple"; there's like... ~45 odd variants or so, which would've been a prohibitive amount of content even for something made in my spare time), and even if that had been done, people would've figured out ways to avoid them gamily which runs counter to the whole point of having them to begin with and creates a two-track system where the players who want them the most and tend to be more experienced are disproportionately less vulnerable to them.

I think the missing element is ensuring there's a core of buy-in from the player, even if the ultimate test is still harsh/semi-random. Battle, disease, natural disasters, more dangerous schemes, these are all avenues we can likely try to look more down in future because they all feel a bit more like either part of the title's systems or else just intuitively dangerous. They were also stuff we (and specifically me, even) wanted to look into anyway, but they would've been generally longer term projects, which is partially why I shied away into something a bit more actionable immediately to begin with. Still, you live and you learn.

Don't be too harsh about your work, harm events did a wonderful job at what they do best : sometime, death makes irruption in your good plans, and there is nothing you can do. They are a really great entropy provider, something that just happen, you did not plan, and you have to manage it. They are *vital* for the health of the game.
On the other hand they were a poor way to "reduce the overall life expectancy", as it might have felt like a sword of Damocles with a hidden timer : everytime the clock ticked, you died.

I would divide it in two mechanics :
- Events that are much less deadly but more frequent, and better integrated into the overall game - something closer to what we had with the diseases in CK2: numerous, not very deadly when well treated, but exerting constant pressure
- Violent and sudden deaths, which keep that healthy entropy of "this happened", but rarer, and less of an impression of "I walked into the room and boom heart attack", but more integrated into the activities: choking at a feast or falling off a horse while hunting, giving the impression that it was the activity itself that killed you, and not the reaper with a hidden timer...

Only saw this after writing the above blob of rambling design thoughts, but thank you for your kind words and I think you're entirely correct on the former category. The latter is problematic because, depending on balance/frequency/exact triggers, you can end up with a situation where people avoid specific areas exactly because they know there's a chance of serious problems awaiting them.

Though it's a bit severe, a good example here would be playdates, and how dear gods why would you ever allow a child to go on a playdate pre-EP2 you monster, because you the (experienced) player know that there's a very good chance the child you send is going to drown within minutes of arrival. Hanging random death content off of other content is tricksy because, if any number of things go wrong, you can wind up tainting a whole mechanic/content pool. By no means impossible, and there's some areas where this will just innately feel fairer than others (e.g., warfare), but it calls for a bit more of a delicate touch and that's something we've occasionally had problems with.

 

[PDXOxycoon]

Do you know where this is the game files (allied AI not accounting player strength for war) I'd like to make a mod disabling this.

Provided I understand your intention correctly: you want to mod it such that the AI does take player strength into account for offensive war? This is, I'm afraid, something you cannot mod, as it the evaluation is on the code side. There are a lot of calculations going on here, and doing it in script would be much too slow.

View attachment 1045029
He was just unlanded and not properly put in the Abbasid courts. I would guess.

The interesting thing is: most of the characters that you see in the game are generated on game start and they are based on a seed that is static between game versions. I cannot quite remember what it is based on, but I believe it based on the checksum. A notable example is Dietwin Royalsbane. He was a character that was randomly generated in 1.8.2 in the 867 starting date, and when Tours and Tournaments was released, the seed changed and he vanished. People were quite distraught, and he was manually readded as an easter egg character. This is not something you can expect us to do on a regular though

Thanks for the update. Let me add my voice to the multitude that is saddened by the Harm event changes. I’ve really enjoyed them and they captured a bit of the randomness that a medieval ruler could be expected to face. They weren’t perfect, but perhaps instead of removing and/or neutering them, there could’ve been more options to survive if you have certain attributes or court positions filled.

I like the intent of the harm events and how they force you to adapt, but I also get the frustrations of those who don't like control being taken from them. We got a bunch of feed back, especially from new players, that the harm events were ruining their experience, as they don't really got grips of the game itself. CK3 does not really cultivate the "you will lose a lot when you're new, but this is not necessarily a bad thing" experience in the same way say Dwarf Fortress and Rimworld does, which embrace the notion of the player losing. I personally want to cultivate this, but I am also not entirely sure how to do so in CK3.

Still, we ever experiment with ways to hinder the player with ways that aren't directly out of their hands. I think harm events was a good thing in terms of our intent, but the execution of it probably was not ideal.

 

[PDXOxycoon]

Absolutely, but this guy is historical. It's Mu'nis al-Muzaffar, a harem Eunuch slave turned military commander, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu'nis_al-Muzaffar

Ah. My bad