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Developer Diary #7: Visceral Immersive Combat

In Developer Diary #1, Alex Skidmore, Project Creative Director at The Chinese Room (TCR) wrote about the first game pillar “Feel like a Vampire”, which sets the player fantasy as a guiding light for creative decisions. We’ve shown a lot of combat so far to give you a taste of the power and flow. What you’ve seen is influenced by the second game pillar: "Visceral, Immersive Combat" which directs the action gameplay. Today, Alex is back to share his thoughts on this important part of the Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2.

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Concept art

When designing Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 combat the goal was to create an action experience that can compete with modern titles. We think of it in three main gameplay styles we want to offer to you all - existing Bloodlines fans, and players who are new to the World of Darkness.

The 1st playstyle we at TCR call the Strategic Stalker: as the name reflects, fans of more strategic combat experiences where staying hidden and using the element of surprise is key will get their vampire predator fantasy. Did you enjoy the Dishonored series, or playing stealth-focused builds in Fallout or Elder Scrolls games? Me too! It gives you time to prepare what Discipline power you’d like to use and when. Once your plan is ready, summoning the powers of the blood, sneaking up on an enemy, distracting them, feeding on them before a fight breaks out or hit and run tactics are options for people who love to play this way.

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The 2nd playstyle we call the Action Brawler: For players who prefer to jump straight into the action and rely on their fast reflexes and combat skills. Any Clan can brawl but this is where the Brujah shine. You’ll see them in our January gameplay reveal video. Their powers are aimed at dominating close combat. References for this style are action-brawling games like the God of War series, Shadow of Mordor and Elden Ring. It is about being in the centre of the brawl and using your abilities to control the crowd so you can deliver as much damage as possible.
We see the above playstyles as two extremes on the same action spectrum, with players being able to play any mixture of the two to find the balance of stalking and brawling that works for them.

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The 3rd playstyle we call the Narrative Adventurer: For players who are less interested in combat and action gameplay and want to focus on the fantasy, narrative and exploration elements of the game. We envision that a core of the Bloodlines 1 fans identify with this playstyle and also fans of TCR's titles to date (and a lot of the developers working on the game), so we’re making sure the gameplay pillar doesn’t add action at the detriment of these important players. You can still enjoy exciting battles without having to delve too deeply into the combat mechanics if things like characters and story are more important to you.

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So, how do we go about achieving this? We focus on immersion over complexity: A streamlined control scheme with actions that are easy for all three playstyles to pick up and play. We then build depth on top of these to give longer-term mastery for the players that want it. For example, the defensive mechanic is a dash, allowing players to dodge incoming attacks or reposition. If dodge is used towards an enemy performing a melee attack, it becomes a counter, staggering the enemy - it is fine for players to never do this move, but for those that want a higher skill-ceiling, it is there. How we use abilities is also streamlined, to maintain immersion. Abilities are mapped to the face buttons (on gamepad), limiting the player to 4 available at one time. This is a small enough amount that a player can use them without breaking their flow, but also deep enough, through the different ways you can combine and use them that it keeps combat engaging and fun.

All of this serves our principal of Immersive Combat. We would rather players were thinking about what cool thing they want to do next, rather than how they do it.

Visceral Combat is a stylistic choice we have made as we believe being a vampire should be a bloody business. Feeding plays a huge role in any vampire story and we wanted to give you a cool reason to tear out throats in the middle of a fight. As an Elder vampire, Phyre has become desensitised to violence, and we want the same to happen to the player over the course of the game - maybe being shocked the first time they chop someone's head off, but after a while accepting that violent carnage is par-for-the-course when you are a 400 hundred year old vampire in a city where everyone is out to get you.

The final game pillar in Bloodlines 2 is “Exploring the World of Darkness”. I look forward to talking to you about that in the next dev-diary.

Good night!
Alex Skidmore, Project Creative Director

What’s Next​

As Alex mentions above, the next dev diary will be on the third pillar ‘Exploring the World of Darkness’, coming in two weeks. Before that you'll be able to see how everything comes together when we debut our gameplay trailer and deep dive on January 31.
 
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Excellent visuals!

Immersive, authentic to the genre… expertly crafted, and beautifully rendered.

Thank you for this update, more than most, THANK YOU!
 
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Abilities are mapped to the face buttons (on gamepad), limiting the player to 4 available at one time.
I really hate this sorta design. This condescending "we don't want to stress the poor little brains of our players, so we coincidentally made it exactly directly gamepad-compatible across all platforms because clearly it'd be far too difficult to let you map let's say FIVE abilities to the keys 1-5, ooph, we wouldn't want that now, would we..."

But anyway, that's to be expected nowadays, of course; basically all devs are like this. It'll be interesting to see how this works with the PnP character system (as far as I'm aware not restricted in such a way) and how much of it survives in the game.

Otherwise probably actual gameplay will tell us more about combat than anything else; it's the sorta thing where you can write all the words in the world and if it doesn't look and feel right that all won't help one bit ^^;
 
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I really hate this sorta design. This condescending "we don't want to stress the poor little brains of our players, so we coincidentally made it exactly directly gamepad-compatible across all platforms because clearly it'd be far too difficult to let you map let's say FIVE abilities to the keys 1-5, ooph, we wouldn't want that now, would we..."

While I generally agree this is an upgrade over VTMB where you only used 2-3 abilities. Combat in that game was both simple and very janky, it's not why the game became a cult classic.
 
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While I generally agree this is an upgrade over VTMB where you only used 2-3 abilities. Combat in that game was both simple and very janky, it's not why the game became a cult classic.
Oh absolutely; I don't think anyone ever said a particularily positive word about Bloodlines 1 combat xD

Heck, I'm not entirely sure anymore, but I think hypothetical-v1-Bloodlines2.0 reduced clan disciplines to two for precisely the same reason, so we would have gotten a similar thing there too. Definitely not claiming it's a TCR thing; it's just "industry standard" at this point.
 
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Wait, what about Tremere who definitely use more than 4 abilities? We just can't use more than 4 abilities in combat as an elder Tremere? Huh? What happened to making us feel like an elder? Shouldn't elders have access to more than FOUR abilities in combat?
 
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I'm hoping to hear about the diplomatic, stealth and non-violent solutions. Hopefully combat is a choice, not the primary means of interacting with the game and obstacles in it.
 
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I don't think anyone ever said a particularily positive word about Bloodlines 1 combat xD
I enjoyed it ...
I mean, sure ... it was wanky and janky, or wathever people call it ... but at that time, every combat was, and this one had its charm.

Abilities are mapped to the face buttons (on gamepad), limiting the player to 4 available at one time.
Feel free to corect me, since i dont play on consoles for more than a decade ...
But wasnt there on controllers like at very least thrice as much buttons usualy?

I mean ... i was Playstation man back in those days, but i clearly remember: Cross, Circle, Triangle, Square, R1, R2, L1, L2, and two pushable "stick" buttons ... that also could serve as up/down/left/right ...
That would mean at very least 14 bindable positions (saving arrows for alternative movement, since i allways hated to move by that stick joistic ... but keeping that in mind aswell for those who preffer it) ...

Did controllers de-evolved so much over time, so they have only 4 buttons nowadays? o_O
 
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You need buttons for interact, jump/dodge, open inventory, possibly reload, etcpp too.

To be fair, you easily can do thinks like "Square" -> Ability 1; "L1 + Square" -> Ability 2, "R1 + Square" -> Ability 3, then if you just use one more button you are already at 6 ability slots ... or you can add the L2/R2 buttons into it, then it's already 8 total. And you can do that and add a third button, for 12 abilities total ... presumably more than enough (not saying that this would be ideal, at some point it does get clunky).

You could also do "bindings" in that you put some on a quick button, and the others via a Quick Menu (possibly via a VATS-like effect where you slow down time while you select your ability for gameplay convinience), or some combination where 1 or 2 buttons are reserved for a Primary and Secondary ability, and the rest you access through somewhat more convoluted means ...

So honestly can't blame gamepads too much; it's just a convenient excuse ^^
 
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Wait, what about Tremere who definitely use more than 4 abilities? We just can't use more than 4 abilities in combat as an elder Tremere? Huh? What happened to making us feel like an elder? Shouldn't elders have access to more than FOUR abilities in combat?
It's four abilities at one time, not four abilities total. It sounds like you'll be able to switch and choose which four you want at any given time before combat. This mechanic is not all that unusual in games today.
 
It sounds like you'll be able to switch and choose which four you want at any given time before combat.
I didnt get the impression honestly ...
Still, if they lock it inside the combat, it still sounds quite awfull. :-/

I mean, i know that Dragon Age: Inquisition had only 4 buttons ... with two switchable bars ... but they at very least allowed to switch between them any time you wanted ... it was still awfull tho, but at very least useable. :-/
 
I'm hoping to hear about the diplomatic, stealth and non-violent solutions. Hopefully combat is a choice, not the primary means of interacting with the game and obstacles in it.
I think the most they've said on it so far seems to be from the FAQ
Is this just an action game?
No, this is an action RPG, meaning there are elements of both action playstyle and role-playing playstyles, depending on how you want to play the game.
I do feel reasonably confident that some combat will be avoidable.

The problem to me is ... is it just an "avoid combat" choice or is it actually an alternative way to enganging with the game? Because if your quest design isn't good - let's say Fallout 4 or Outer Worlds (probably also Starfield) - then these persuasion checks that those games love are really just "press button to win fight without fighting". It doesn't feel like you are enganging with the game in an alternative way, it just feels like you're skipping a part you are not in the mood for.

Like you say, they should be alternative choices; alternative but equal. And not just exist so you can say "this is an RPG".

I suppose that is where I'm more troubled, because while this is a rare dev diary that does acknowledge that Bloodlines 1 exists (a weirdly rare occurrence so far ^^) apparently the conclusion seems to be lumping in the sorta walking-sim players with Bloodlines 1 players -
We envision that a core of the Bloodlines 1 fans identify with this playstyle and also fans of TCR's titles to date (and a lot of the developers working on the game)
and given (what reads to me) like a difficulty option that'll just make fights super easy and probably auto-fires combos/powers or something (something like the "story" difficulty in various games).

But this is I think a horrible misunderstanding of BL1 players? BL1 had its janky combat that, okay as Ragnarok says, could be serviceable outside when it got too bad, but it's not that people thought "we want to avoid combat", per se. Instead people liked the alternative paths because those were good - but again, not because they avoid combat. Just because they (often, not always of course) were interesting to play.

That's something that BL2 really should expand upon, but so far no indication to that.

So this too
All of this serves our principal of Immersive Combat. We would rather players were thinking about what cool thing they want to do next, rather than how they do it.
... I mean, yes, this refers just to the "press button for cool" gameplay (remember BioWare and how they were mocked for this? Oh well ...), probably, but Bloodlines 1 involved a lot of "how do I actually do this" planning. You had to build your character to be able to play how you wanted, and that required tackling things in a certain order, and so on. If you wanted to persuade somebody, you couldn't just bank on being able to do it.

That too is part of Bloodlines 1. And it's completely at odds with "no planning" and/or what a casual walking sim experience is like.

Stuff like this just make me worry ^^;


Also, I didn't want to ramble about 17 things I worry about right in the first post (it could still all turn out fantastic, really, the option does exist; might just worry myself over nothing ^^), that was plenty negative as it is, but while I'm at it now -
Did you enjoy the Dishonored series, or playing stealth-focused builds in Fallout or Elder Scrolls games? Me too!
Like, I'm reading this, and just wondering - are the devs aware that Bethesda "stealth archer" memes exist not because players think it's cool, but because the balancing with the janky stealth system and the ridiculous insta-kill nature of their "cinematic camera kills" make this way of playing so overpowered that even if for example you want to play an Arch Mage in Elder Scrolls, you'll still end up "accidentally" playing a stealth archer because it's soooo friggin' convenient and horribly out of balance against everything else in the game ... ?!

Obviously Dishonored is an example of a stealth game that works very well. Hitman and Thief can do it too. So not like you can't design something around the concept (also note how these aren't just random open world games with stealth sections but designed for stealth...). But, if I recall correctly, they specifically used Dishonored as an example in the initial introduction to say that you shouldn't feel like you gotta worry about being discovered, you are the predator. Fine, but that means that you also don't get that tense stealth "will I make that quiet kill" experience, only the OP-insta-murder part.

And how is it balanced then? The reason stealth is so incredibly powerful in stealth games is because discovery is a huge issue (I mean, you can kill everyone in those games too - but it's sorta a failure in its own way ^^)

Oh well. ;) Maybe the gameplay reveal will reveal some actual gameplay, and, yeah, hopefully not just "visceral combat", but if it does just show off visceral combat, then hopefully at least it'll be interesting visceral combat ^^;
 
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Ok it was a good surprise reveal for Bloodhunt 2. I'm not into forgettable dumb button mashers for edgelord teenagers but maybe it will have an audience.

Now seriously: when we will receive any news about the Bloodlines sequel?
 
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Maybe I am jaded, but this reads more like the reasons given are an explanation after the fact rather then the driver.

As in, for example, finding an excuse in the setting for combat being simplistic instead of choosing the simplistic approach because it truly fits the setting.

Also, there are not three combat styles. There are two, stealth or brawler. The "third" is the avoidance of combat through narrative means rather than a combat style.

More than anything, I wish the TCR Devs the best and I do hope this game is awesome. I'm just skeptical.
 
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Shouldn't an elder Tremere be able to use more than 4 abilities IN COMBAT? What about experiencing the power of an elder?
Combinations, accelerations, tiered abilities with enabling linkages enabled by equipment, experiences/point in the story, having recently fed, Clan trait, etc ~ all can ebb and flow into the use, duration of use and timing of the application of those four selections.

It do like that this game should see some excellent sales on platforms beyond personal computers. :bow:
 
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Shouldn't an elder Tremere be able to use more than 4 abilities IN COMBAT? What about experiencing the power of an elder?
There are natural limitations that come about when playing a game - after all, how many hands do you have?
 
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Well, I could definitely select from more than 4 abilities with either a keyboard or a controller... but I'll be playing it on PC. I could have access to twenty abilities and be very happy. A simple keybind or even cycle system would be preferable to restricting us to using only 4 abilities during combat.
 
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Well, I could definitely select from more than 4 abilities with either a keyboard or a controller... but I'll be playing it on PC. I could have access to twenty abilities and be very happy. A simple keybind or even cycle system would be preferable to restricting us to using only 4 abilities during combat.
Are you trying to suggest that you need 20 individual abilities (and by that I mean individually useful abilities for combat) for you to legitimately 'experience the power of an elder'?
 
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