Stellaris Dev Diary #285 - Observation and Awareness

[Alfray Stryke]

These espionage operations look very interesting!

I notice an Infiltrate Government operation; is this the same as the Covert Infiltration option to annex pre-Spaceflight civilizations, or is this more like gather intel operation for normal empires? If it isn't the same as Covert Infiltration, is it still possible to annex primitives without a fight or making them a protectorate first?

The Infiltration Government operation is the old Covert Infiltration observation post mission, you'll annex the pre-FTL civilization into your empire (assuming that you're a regular empire and they're not a hive mind - pre-FTL hive minds can be targeted by the equivalent Infiltrate Hive operation.)

Interesting - looks like new flags are coming.

One new flag emblem for each technological age for pre-FTLs, to make it easier to tell which age they're in.

Will primitives still use the little tomahawk axe symbol on the galaxy map? would be cool if we could get the symbol to update per the highest-progression pre-ftl society in the system, or something like that, just for when playing those 5x primitive games (i.e. all of them lol).

Nah, we got rid of that icon, there's a new one.

Spoiler

And I guess this answers the question of what happens when they hit the space age - "+100 loyalty" ... they become a vassal rather than totally stealing away your system?

If you Share Technology with them, they're become a subject of yours with the Enlightened origin (which also gives a passive monthly Loyalty boost and for owners of Overlord allows them to become any Specialist Subject even if they'd normally be restricted to being a Protectorate).

Is there any way to lower awareness? like if you do nothing between the stone age and renaissance age, maybe they just think of you like ancient aliens conspiracy theorists? Or is it always progressive?

Will it be possible to reduce awareness through say, espionage operations?

You'll want to run the Spread Disinformation operation, but they have a chance to lose Awareness every month depending on their technological age.

And if a megacorp can have a BO on a primitive world - can that branch office be stolen by another megacorp in a hostile takeover war? if so it would be the first time a megacorp can have a branch office in another megacorp's space, interestingly.

You can only open branch offices on pre-FTL worlds within your borders.

Could you add some indicator (i.e. an icon) to the Galactic resolutions to indicate which resolutions have levels 1-5 and which have mutually exclusive options? I have at times accidentally supported changing a mutually exclusive law, because I didn't realize that the options are mutually exclusive..

These new resolutions need to repealed before one of the other resolutions can be proposed, so no danger of that!

Will primitives still take ownership of a system and become an "official" civilization if they develop technologically?

They'll ask nicely for the system first.

amazing!
this looks super super good, can't wait to play it.
will primitive spy networks use scientists instead of envoys? not only would it be thematically appropiate, it would also reduce envoy strain on empires with low amounts of em.

All spy networks require envoys.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

Just checking the latest replies - I'm aiming to go through the rest of the thread this afternoon.

Will we get to see unique icons for specific enclaves and shroud tunnels too? There are some of them sitting unused in the files.

Huh! I'll look into why those aren't being used.

Is Sathorian in reference to the nemesis DLC video
The Sathorians, it's kalthorians in the vid but here it's Sath... I am connecting some dots... :thinking:

Just a randomly generated species that was in the galaxy when I was taking screenshots for the dev diary.

Spoiler

But blowing up Deneb IIa was deliberate.

Particularly with a Federation in play, the current situation with envoys is both ... distressing and not especially fun, because the player often basically has to assign all of their envoys to a Federation as the AI is both 1) incapable of assigning more than one envoy if the Federation needs it for cohesion and yet 2) the AI still keeps voting for laws that increase the cohesion upkeep without providing additional help.

So it's a bit worrisome to hear of (yet more) envoy pressure for players.

Is there any thought towards doing something to alleviate the rather frustrating envoy crunch (due to AI inability to figure out what to do with Federation cohesion) if there are new mechanics that are going to require long-term envoy assignments, so as to avoid making the current situation even worse in that regard?

The AI should be assigning envoys to federations (and I thought they were), will check with the AI programmers how their priorities are set.

The good news I do have is the diplomatic pacts with pre-FTL civilizations do not require an envoy (just improve/harm relations) and all the espionage operations require a relatively low level of infiltration.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

Do Criminal Syndicates have a different set of rules to regular Megacorps when it comes to placing their branch offices? I would hope that Criminal Syndicates throw out the rules when it comes to their Branch Offices in Pre-FTL space. They're not exactly fussed about the law, after all.
Also they can't sign Commercial Pacts

They don't need the commercial pact to open the branch office, but do still need an observation outpost.

Oh, and if the pre-ftl civilization is not fully aware, there's a chance they'll gain awareness from the criminal branch office.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

Do we know more about Cloaking?

I've yet to write the dev diary on it, but there is one planned.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

Answering more questions, apologies if I missed any!

Will there be any special events or Tech Insights if we interact with primitives in old fashioned way - invasion?

Any special options for empires with complete or ongoing Ascension?

Also can we please get Envoys split into Diplomats (increases with diplomacy techs/traditions) and Spies (increases with espionage techs/traditions)? Every DLC we get more and more places we can use them, but their initial number stays the same (unless if go for specific civics). Currently i see no point of sending them to primitves instead of neighboring empire.

Generally speaking if you invade them you'll miss out on the observation insights they'd normally grant you..

Is there a way to get Overlord holdings onto a pre-FTL world, or do you need to share tech with them and make them a proper vassal first?

No current way of being the overlord of a pre-FTL civilization.

Does the value of passive observation drop off as awareness goes up? So you have a genuine reason for wanting to keep awareness down beyond roleplay?

Higher awareness means they'll tech up faster and if they become fully aware you flat out can't observe them to gain research any more.

So, the pre-FTL Hive Minds are confirmed, bit what about the Machine Empires? Can they appear from pre-FTL empires?

There's a robot uprising event chain for pre-FTLs in the early space age.

How will these resolutions interact with the unchained knowledge tree? From tier 3 up the science resolutions ban passive observation. Will having Advanced Xenostudies block Equal standing/Non-interference or will one over write the other?

Personally I wouldn't be opposed to the science resolution tree having the passive studies ban removed. It feels more restrictive than other trees since it means only xenophobe/authoritarian materialists can push science diplomatically.

Advanced Xenostudies is largely unchanged, which means it synergises nicely with the Exploitation Act since it'll increase the Physics and Engineering research you gain from the latter.

Regardless of which GalCom laws have been passed Subtle Interference always remains legal.

I am more interested in the jacket... so when is it on the store? or is it already?

Only way to get the jacket is to work on Stellaris.

without spoilers, would you say there is anything in the story pack if you deactivate all primitives in the galaxy? some new unannounced mini leviathan for example? some archeological sites? something?

i do not want to deactivate primitives, just curious if its "only" about primitives.

The majority of the content in this story pack is related to pre-FTL civilizations. Off the top of my head, if you completely disable them the main stuff you'll have to play with is one of the origins, the civics and cloaking.

I get that ages where done that way for simplicity but I hope care is taken not to restrict to much for modders when it comes to them.
Theres no reason why all civilization should have a dark ages or a rebirth. Or for a civilization not to just go straight for iron if geology allows.
Like the events that can work in multiple ages, I hope they are not just checks for those specific ages and modders can create their own ages.

Should be fairly moddable and we have some events both in the base game and DLC that cause pre-FTLs to skip some ages. Most of the events are using scripted triggers, which modders should find handy, e.g.

Spoiler

pre_ftl_ancient_era = {
    OR = {
        has_pre_ftl_age = stone_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = bronze_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = iron_age
    }
}
pre_ftl_medieval_era = {
    OR = {
        has_pre_ftl_age = late_medieval_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = renaissance_age
    }
}
pre_ftl_victorian_era = {
    OR = {
        has_pre_ftl_age = steam_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = industrial_age
    }
}
pre_ftl_modern_era = {
    OR = {
        has_pre_ftl_age = machine_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = atomic_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = early_space_age
    }
}

is_pre_renaissance = {
    OR = {
        has_pre_ftl_age = stone_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = bronze_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = iron_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = late_medieval_age
    }
}

is_pre_industrial = {
    OR = {
        has_pre_ftl_age = stone_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = bronze_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = iron_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = late_medieval_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = renaissance_age
        has_pre_ftl_age = steam_age
    }
}

You can just tweak the Protectorate contract if that's what you want. 75% science subsidies doesn't put a dent in your output but might actually do quite well for them.
It also means you'll be able to use the Loyalty differential to get whatever you like out of the vassal; they'll often spam Strategic Resources, you can give them maximal Holdings and rope them into all of your wars.

Forgot to mention in the main post, empires with the Enlightened origin gain a bonus to research speed from their origin, gain extra monthly Loyalty and can be given specialist subject agreements (from Overlord) even if the tech difference between them and their overlord would normally force them to be a protectorate.

I had a thought come up with needing an observation post for a branch office.
When you control a system in a war, you get all the outputs of its stations. Is an observation post captured in the same way 'yours'? Will you be able to reveal yourself to the primitives, sign a commercial pact, place a branch office? Or place a Criminal Syndicate branch office?
What if you lose the Embassy or Observation Post? Does the Holding get destroyed?

If you lose the observation post, the branch office (and any ongoing diplomatic agreements) will be lost and the diplomatic pacts should look at the system owner not the system controller.