Tinto Flavour #26 - 10th June 2025 - Korea and Manchuria

[Roger Corominas]

Hello and welcome to another issue of our Tinto Flavour. Today we will take a look at the lands of Korea and Manchuria. Let’s start first with Korea, or at this point in time, the Kingdom of Goryeo:

After the national unification achieved by the Goryeo dynasty, the glorious formation of the eponym Kingdom of Goryeo brought a golden period of prosperity and unprecedented unity to its people.

Even after bending to Emperor Borjigin Kublai, Goryeo continues to be an important power, both because of its highly educated population and its powerful navy.

Now the winds of change are blowing, as the corruption of the Buddhist ideals and the revolutionizing ideas of Neo-Confucianism are changing minds all over the country. Will Goryeo transform into the strongest soldier in Yuán's army, or will it break free from those shackles and dictate its future?

It starts with some reforms and privileges:

Of which this unique one:

It also has some unique laws:

Unique advances:

Unique buildings:

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And unique units:

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There are some events related to the relationship between Korea and China:

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And of course also an event for the rise of Joseon:

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We could choose to condemn them to a life of rebellion, or to accept the rise of a new dynasty, giving a new name and flag:

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And of course there are many other interesting historical events:

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Let us move now to Manchuria and the Jurchen tribes.

The Jurchen people inhabit Manchuria and are divided in diverse groups, including the Jianzhou, Haixi, and Wild Jurchens, that have different lifestyles —some are hunter-gatherers, other pastoralists, but mostly sedentary agriculturists.

Chinese officials have divided the Jurchen based on proximity and characteristics. Jianzhou Jurchens, near Mudan River, have adopted Chinese habits; Haixi Jurchens have nomadic and sedentary tribes along the Haixi River; and Yeren or Wild Jurchens, in sparsely populated north Manchuria, rely on hunting and agriculture.

Influenced by neighboring dynasties, the Jurchen have chiefs paying tribute to hold nominal posts as commanders of border guards.

Traditionally, Jurchen have been divided into three types, and this is represented with three different government reforms:

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They have some advances available to all of them:

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Another mechanic available to them is the a special type of International Organization called Jurchen Confederation, representing a somewhat banding together of different tribes responding to a single authority on certain matters while still maintaining total autonomy in most. At start, there are three Jurchen Confederations present: the Jianzhou, Hūlun, and Changbaishan.

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Jurchen Confederations have laws, with some of them centered around the structures and operations of the confederation itself on an internal level, and also others that deal with how the confederation interacts with the outside world.

There are more laws in the confederations, not just these three.​

As one would expect, unifying all the Jurchen tribes will lead to the possibility of forming a new identity:

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When formed, it will trigger the following event, with an option to choose the name for the country:

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And of course, when managing to conquer China you’ll get another event for the option of proclaiming a new dynasty:

And that is all for today, although there is much more in the game for you to discover. We'll be back tomorrow talking about the mechanics of Shintō and the Shogunate, see you then.

And remember to Wishlist Europa Universalis V now!

 

[Roger Corominas]

Will there be anything about the Banner regiments system like it had in EU4?
And will we also be able to have any events about the rise of the Aisin Gioro house?

Yes.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Is there any situations/events/etc… for the Wako (Japanese pirate) raids that devastated Southern Korea during the 14th century? As well as the invasion of Northern Korea by the Red Turbans?

Yes

 

[Roger Corominas]

*June 10th?

Not sure what you're talking about...

 

[Roger Corominas]

the son in law rul reform tooltip is a bit hard to read with the 2 conditions that have the same text, and one having positive effect and the other negative effect. I'd tend to believe it is a bug where the negative should have a different condition, but it seems hard to conclusively say

Missing "NOT" in the second part, fixed

 

[Roger Corominas]

What's the difference between these two?

View attachment 1316433

Missing "NOT" in the second one, fixed

 

[Roger Corominas]

Can you get Yi Sun-sin?

Yes

 

[Roger Corominas]

Tamna was a direct vassal of Goryeo in 1337, why is not shown in the relations screenshot?

They are a vassal of Yuan directly

 

[Roger Corominas]

The intro text should say "eponymous Kingdom of Goryeo", not the noun eponym.

The Son-In-Law Rule has two separate sets of extra effects if you have upgraded it though the event, are those alternate sets of effects from different options in the event, or are they from the same option but the positive and negative effects have just been listed separately?

Are the Aisin Gioro the ruling dynasty of one of the Jurchen tags at game start, or are they one of the tags that will break away during a Yuan collapse?

Fixed. The Aisin Gioro is scripted to be present at start.

 

[Roger Corominas]

I keep noticing that formables conditions never mention anything else than having hold of specific provinces, are the cultural restrictions gone?

Yes, there are, in this case they need to be of Jurchen culture.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Are there any events for the introduction of gunpowder to Korea by Choe Muson?

“Ch'oe Musŏn (Korean: 최무선; Hanja: 崔茂宣; 1330–1395) was a medieval Korean chemist, inventor, and military general during the late Goryeo Dynasty and early Joseon Dynasty. He is best known for enabling Korea to domestically produce gunpowder by obtaining a recipe for the Chinese commodity from a Chinese merchant, as well as inventing various gunpowder-based weapons in an attempt to repel the wokou pirates that plundered coastal regions of the Korean Peninsula.​

(Continued)

Spoiler

Ch'oe was born into a wealthy family in Yeongcheon, Gyeongsang Province; his father was an official in the administration. He qualified to be a military officer through civil service examination. The government's control of Goryeo was crumbling, and at the same time the pirates crossing the Korean Strait plundered much of the coastal regions. In the southern part of the nation, pirates even marched deep inland, causing havoc. The Goryeo government was not able to ensure security, despite the efforts of generals Yi Sŏng-gye and Ch'oe Yŏng.

In his childhood, while he was at the royal palace with his father, who was working for the king, Ch'oe saw fireworks made by Mongols and Chinese, who at the time had indirect control of Goryeo (their influence was repealed by King Gongmin). Later in life, Ch'oe embarked on a quest to bring the recipe of gunpowder to Korea. He visited China, which was then ruled by the Mongol Yuan Dynasty. In general, technology of that region, such as cotton growing and gunpowder manufacture, was kept secret. Ch'oe sought to smuggle some examples of secret items, and eventually was able to obtain knowledge of the three key ingredients of gunpowder: sulfur, slack or fine coal, and potassium nitrate. However, the process to obtain niter, the mineral form of potassium nitrate, was difficult, and he did not know how to prepare gunpowder from the raw materials.

After a chain of experimental failures, Ch'oe considered abandoning the project, but heard about a wealthy Chinese merchant named Li Yuan who had great knowledge of gunpowder. Ch'oe visited Li while he was staying in Goryeo on business, and bribed Li for the gunpowder recipe, in violation of Mongol and Chinese law. Korea began its first domestic production of gunpowder between the years of 1374 and 1376.[1]

Ch'oe demonstrated the power of the new weapon in front of King U and many other court advisers; and almost every one of them were impressed by its devastating power compared to other arms which were already in existence in Korea. The government gave him great support, establishing the official laboratory and factory for gunpowder in 1377; here Ch'oe invented various kinds of cannon and other firearms. Among his inventions were the singijeon and the hwacha, a launching device somewhat resembling the first modern multiple rocket launcher. Then he put his inventions into real battle against the Japanese at the Battle of Jinpo, in which he participated as one of the Korean commanders; the battle was easily won by Korean forces, thanks to the gunpowder. He also began to build warships to chase off the pirates.

Since his inventions greatly contributed to his country, he was able to be promoted and participate in politics. However he was already old when he obtained the gunpowder recipe from the merchant, and his later days saw the change of dynasty from Goryeo to Joseon. Soon after the foundation of the new Joseon Dynasty, Ch'oe retired from both military and political affairs, and died in 1395. After his death, King Taejo gave him the honorary title of vice-premier. He is still remembered in Korea as the perfect role model for many scientists and as a patriot.

His son was the Korean military officer Ch'oe Hae-san.[2]
[\SPOILER]

Ch'oe Musŏn - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

There are things related to gunpowder, but I don't think there's anything related to him in particular right now.

 

[Roger Corominas]

I forfot to mention this yesterday but the Japanese cultures should be spelled as adjectives rather than names like Kyushuan, Saigokuan...
View attachment 1316441

We treat these kinds of unnaturalized foreign words as invariable, as these languages don't have the same adjectival rules.

 

[Roger Corominas]

how do the jurchen law policies changes ? War, a parliement, diplomacy ? Something else ?

I guess you refer to the Jurchen Confederacy IO? They are changed through vote by the members of the IO.

 

[Roger Corominas]

If who is in charge in China changes, does the Son in Law rule go away for Korea?

Yes, there will be an event to remove it.

 

[Roger Corominas]

I'm sure it's been addressed before, but ruler titles (such as those in China, Korea, and Japan) make these events seem a little awkward when addressing the ruler. Yeah, that man's name was Yi Seong-gye, but after he became king he was known as King Taejo... (It's not limited to Asia, either, or this time period, as of course Albert Edward Saxe-Coburg-Gotha just became King Edward VII in 1901!)

We have a system of regnal names, but unfortunately it's not able to fully handle the complexities of naming for East Asian dynasties.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Is there an event related to the appearance of King Sejong?

Not right now.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Is there any reason for the player not to switch to Joseon? Do you risk anything by doing so?

It is mainly just a name change, although the event related to "The Veritable Records of Joseon" is tied to actually being Joseon.

 

[Roger Corominas]

Please reconsider the event texts "Manchurian state of Jurchen origins" and "We are the Manchurian first and foremost" text option Replacing "Manchurian" with just "Manchu", is a much more natural option. It is like calling someone from the British Isles Britainian, from Ireland Irelandish, from Germany Germanian, etc. Unless Manchurain is specifically emphasizing the geographic localtion, which still does not make sense since Jurchen identity is tied with the region and there should be no need to emphasize on the geography at all. (Example, if Trebizond conquers Greece and Anatolia, and the event ot rename to Byanztine/Eastern Rome/Whatever reads "Trebezonian state of Pontic origins" and "We are Trebezonian first and foremost")

Fixed, changed the adjective of "Manchu" to be just "Manchu".

 

[Roger Corominas]

This is a very very interesting concept that could be used for many other parts of the world with such tribal confederations. Are there others like this?

Yes.

 

[Roger Corominas]

The Qing Empire should be changed to the Great Qing, which is the official name.

Fixed