Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #66 - Patch 1.1 (part 2)

[lachek]

Patch 1.1 also contains several AI improvements and bugfixes that are not mentioned in this dev diary that's about resource balancing! We'll publish the full changelog at a near future date.

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

@PDJR_Alastorn lovely changes, in my playthroughs i noticed some particular shortcomings of coal in the very early and very late game. In the late game particular i was also confronted with a huge surplus of wood. I personally would love to see an extra PM added to logging camps that adds a small output of coal at the expense of wood output to solve both issues.

Something to look into in the future. I have a hunch the coal shortcomings is due to the oil shortage and the AI not making the jump over to that resource.

We will see how things tend in the future.

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

Ok, but the problems with oil aren't so much there isn't enough reserves it's that the AI just refuses to build oil rigs. Is that being addressed?

That is also being addressed by AI changes being made and iterated on.

Even if there was AI development of all oil the data I was having indicated we would still need to deepen the world's oil supply.

I said in the dev diary we are actively making the AI better at these things, let's not fall to the object permanence of this is the sole solution of 1.1 towards this.

It's many things and there's a fun tangent on how Im pretty sure the character age bug is what has also been propping up the games current regressive regimes.

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

I wish I had read this earlier so I wouldn't have spent five minutes jumping up and down between maps to make sure I wasn't going crazy

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

Even if it's not perfect, would it be possible to push some quick fixes to arable land in 1.1? Even something as small as doubling arable land in every state in the Americas would be a massive improvement over the status quo.

Not possible sadly, too many knock on effects I need to work through. 1.1s release date does not give enough time to vet "quick arable land fixes" with all the other things on the list to be examined.

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

Oh man I beg that you tone down the addition of huge amounts more oil, half the fun of the game is competition for resources! Maybe some kind of halfway house first rather than a big bang of oil everywhere??

I will tone it down, when I see the test results that tell me to to tone it down.
Else I will be making a judgement call without data - and I'm not a fan of doing that.
Besides, this could have been the half-way house, or I could have been talked up for all you know. This was not the first draft.

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

My biggest problem is hardwood and contrary to oil I can't solve (or at least delay) it by sniping Texas or Basra.

I think we got something nice in for hardwood for 1.1 - if its still an issue give me some data points and I can look for 1.2

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

@PDJR_Alastorn , awesome DD, thx!

I still miss the rich oil sources at Vienna which still deliver oil.
Have a look:

Öl! Weltgeschichte im Wiener Becken - Augustin - Die erste österreichische Boulevardzeitung

Texas, der Nahe Osten oder aus aktuellem Anlass Russland werden mit Erdöl in Verbindung gebracht. Dabei hat dieser fossile Rohstoff vor den Toren Wiens eine lange und wirtschaftlich bedeutende Tradition. Ein historischer Überblick. TEXT: BENJAMIN STEININGER Vom Kahlenberg aus konnte man die...

augustin-or-at.translate.goog

"Boryslaw's oilfields in World War I are described as the "pantry of the German U-boats". When troops of Tsarist Russia conquered the oil fields for a short time in 1915, drilling was also carried out in the Vienna Basin for the first time and without success."

They finally started in 1930s with oil production there but it could have been much earlier.

See, this is why I love the community. My searches missed this. I will add it to the backlog of sources.

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

Can some rubber be "discoverable" in Southern China? Rubber was introduced in China around 1896, and was planted in large quantities in the province of Yunnan and Hainan (in game part of the Guangdong province).

China has in general pathetic resources compared to other regions. For example, China have one the world's largest lead deposits, yet in game there is barely any. Genreally more resources would be appreciated. (As a sidenote, please add maize to Northern China, where it has been grown in large quantites since its introduction in the 16th century. Although gameplay wise it's not meaningful, it is historically and culturally meaningful)

Its unlikely to make it into 1.1 but its certainly something I can look into for the future. Any documentation you can send my way to expedite my searches would be appreciated. I've not looked at anything other than Oil and Rubber at the moment, I know there are a hundred of "but this state made X" comments - I will hopefully get to them all in time, sources help me stack them in a pile for my todo's in the future since its hard to look at a map and notice what's missing if I didn't know it was supposed to be there.

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

You could have a mix of three approaches:

• Natural Rubber, as is now, with the highest yield
• Synthetic Rubber as lategame addition
• Artificial Rubber plantations that use arable land in fitting climate zones, but have lower yield

The approach of man-made plantations could also be applied to Wood, just to throw in the idea for you to contemplate on it.

Yeah its on the list of considerables but like Synthetic Oil its towards the late end of the time period and so its something I can do but its not something you would see right away. IIRC Synthetic Oil was like... 1929? I cannot remember Synthetic Rubber and I lack internet (on mobile). Its debatable and we can fudge those numbers forward but thats definitely a late game solution mainly, and we've got more than late game problems right now so it wasn't the best fix.

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

I’m pretty sure the rubber plantation is not currently automated even at present day. This is not a wheat farm that you can just drive a cultivator into the field and call it a day. Actually, they’re not labor intensive as planters can tapped the tree trunk and collect all the latex once a container is filled, the same way as maple syrup. So why not balancing by increasing production per worker or reducing comsumption when used as raw mat?

Fair questions - one, adjusting inputs as raw mats requires a bit more calculation and balancing because it can have knock on effects of other industries and its not a change I felt comfortable doing at that period of time. So instead I made the changes to adding an automatic irrigation PM. This is not to be confused as a cultivator addition, this is not the tractor or tool PMs that are on fields or plantations. This is the addition of engines as pumps to ensure irrigation of the nursery when rainfall is not sufficient.

The change I did make was increasing production per worker - by using a later game PM to double the production. Production per worker is already doing well (in static balancing) it was more that the economies of nations in these areas could not sustain a larger working pool to make the supply meet demand. Now this is actually due to a few reasons, some of which are the depopulation of Subsaharan Africa balance bug, alongside some Malaria side effects we've already been working on.

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

Is there some reason why Brunei is excluded?

Edit: +Estonia

No particular reason, either its been missed in the sheet, typo'd or I had a really good (or stupid) reason I cannot remember.
Remember - all things are WIP and being reviewed.

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

AFAIK the oil reserve in argentina is a lot more than what bolivia has.

And our state oil company was one of the firsts in the world.

Sources.
Give me sources please.

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

Much could be said about this topic and I agree with what others already posted that the AI needs to build more resource buildings however I thought I'd limit my comment to something else. I own a german lexicon from 1938 that is an interesting contemporary source of information imho. So here's what it says regarding to known places where oil is found and about production output: It says world production in 1913 was 53,4 Million tons. By country: 34 US, 8,8 Russia, 3,8 Mexico, 1,8 Romania, 1,5 Dutch east indies, 1,2 British India, 1,1 Poland, 1,2 other.
In 1935 world production was 225,9 Million tons. By country: 134,6 US, 25,2 Russia, 22 Venezuela, 8,4 Romania, 7,6 Persia, 6,1 Dutch East Indies, 6,0 Mexico, 0,45 German Empire, 16 other.
Places where oil Reserves are known are qualified as: North and South America, Persia, Mesopotamia, East Indies, Caspian Sea (Baku), Romania, Galicia, German Empire (Province of Hanover, North Germany, Thuringia and Baden) It also talks about the new technology of Coal liquidification which I think should probably be in game. (Production method for synthetics plant?)

A scan of the lexicon dm'd to me would make my day.

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

@PDJR_Alastorn was struggling with resources and it was great to see this problem solved so quickly.
But the problem with resources in the game goes beyond that, and I think there are a lot of resources that are scarce when both the player and the ai nation can use them properly, such as coal, hardwood, etc. I have a bold but justified idea. Can we make more kinds of resources, like coal and iron, be discovered with the game, just like oil and rubber? For example, in 1836 an area with 50 units of coal could grow to 80 or more by the end of the game.In fact, the world didn't explore all of its resources in 1836, so if this feature can make up for late game resource shortages without affecting the balance of resources early in the game, and make the technology of "increasing resource discovery" more useful.
In addition, I think the productivity will increase too fast when I build steel structures in the middle of the game. If I use a country like Spain, I can frantically build factories after steel structures and make the gdp reach 1 billion in the 1880s,building points(is that true in English?) are more than 1500, while ai's gdp is still in the same place. Their gdp adds up to mine. There is a reason why the ai is not smart enough, but I also think there is too many building points in the middle of the game

I have... ideas abot where to go with this
No promises on when though.

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

Don't be shy about buffing oil throughput AND output of American oil fields. They were producing 70% of the world's supply of oil for a reason.

Its been thought about - but making a state trait for that is kinda screaming "here be oil" when the resource has not yet been discovered.

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

I personally really like the increase in oil availability as I've usually been avoid oil consuming PMs except for the army and navy due to scarcity.

Have you considered adding coal liquefaction to the late game, as a way to produce oil from coal?

What about coal liquefaction? It was heavily used at the beginning of the 20th century so create oil from coal.

Its been considered and is in the arsenal of "future ideas." I want to see how coal balances out with more Oil avaiability since right now its being used more than expected since economies don't make that much of an Oil Transfer.

 

[PDJR_Alastorn]

Thank you all for those who have sent me sources, I've set time aside this week to go over them and see what changes to the map I can make. For those of you who have suggested more detailed suggestions like new PMs, Buildings, Methods, Traits, etc - this feedback has gone with my notes on the matter for the future.


I would like to remind those who disapprove of these changes that I am also reading their advice and I would love to faster implement things like FDI and various other suggestions - but the complexity of those solutions to not beget a quick turnaround for 1.1. This game's balance is a living and breathing thing and while I can wait for perfection with some of the suggestions mentioned, I prefer to continually iterate through things. Let us remain civil in our feedback as we have had for the most part and remember that when one change is mentioned - its not at the cost of looking into the other proposed methods as well.