Use of Special Forces!!!

[Amob_m_s]

I got mechs as Sweden once. They were very effective in invading France- The US had a tentative foothold in Normandy which obviously would be wiped out soon, so I rushed a 9 mech army and 2 12-inf armies over and landed behind the Nazis in Brittany. With two fronts, they didn't dare attack in either direction, and my mechs held the south of my beachhead and even pushed forward. Soon, as they tend to do, the Americans began to amass an enormous fighting force on their beachhead, and soon had 100+ divisions sitting there; when they attacked, the Germans started rolling back and kept rolling all the way to Warsaw, where the Americans and Soviets met. For my part, I took ahold of Brittany and SW France with what grew to a 42-div force.

I also got paras as Turkey once, I was planning on using them against Greece but the game ended

And as a minor the best way to get in a war is to join one of the alliances when you're ready, there's no DoW penalties against you. This especially works for S. American nations, because Argentina has a habit of going axis, while Venezuela goes allies. You can just wait for them to join then take whichever side you please.

 

[Dr Rare]

Excellent glad to hear about Swedish Mech Forces and Turkish Para's in game
Amob_m_s were you playing CORE or vanilla?

Dr

 

[Dr Rare]

Paratroopers - myraid of uses....

Obviously taking low infra provinces.

Also, they too count as another attack direction and therefore give your enemy -10%, making them *extremely* useful for important battles.

Upgraded with tac/dive bomber support they can defeat several times their number of INF all by themselves. This means they can really open gaps your enemy is not expecting.

Similarly the AI often leaves brief gaps in its lines with no troops at all. Drop in a paratrooper and then rush your troops in to reinforce them.

You can also use paratroopers defensively. Is your line about to break? Drop a bunch of paras to give you time to get your tanks there.

I've also considered paras as super marines - load them on a transport and the transport on a carrier, then sail to the enemy coast and land instantly in any province you want...but I've never actually tried this.

Paras have too drawbacks - they are expensive (when you factor in the transport planes) and you need almost total air superiority.

Continuing this great thread conversation on Hoi1 Special Forces and there many different uses in game.

I was wondering how effective people find paratroops in Hoi1 in non para drop situations?

Does anyone find them useful in other situations or terrains?

I tend to be quite protective of my para troops ,but i do use them as reserves if needed .But does anyone find them effective in other ways such as used as a sort of light infantry?

Or are they any good in jungles(like the marines are) if used non-para drop?

Dr

 

[bestmajor]

depends on the mod you play or the techs you use, i dont know the default values of paras for eg snow attack..

but in most of the mods i saw they were good against fortresses or urban areas, mountain troops for snow/ice and hilly/mountain terrain, marines for jungle and militia/ cav for desert (as a desert cav or an askari/colonial militia)

to hold the frontline, mostly paras are crap and i always jump with 12 divs if possible. maintainance is to expensive (mostly 4 - 6 supplies) but justified as it represents the needed facilities (?).

mostly my paras are situated in Prag or Pilsen, transportplanes added but i need them only for sweden and norway (conquering ports).

as germany i never build marines, only bergsjaegers and max 24 para-divs.

bm

 

[unmerged(115821)]

I was wondering how effective people find paratroops in Hoi1 in non para drop situations?
Does anyone find them useful in other situations or terrains?
I tend to be quite protective of my para troops ,but i do use them as reserves if needed .But does anyone find them effective in other ways such as used as a sort of light infantry?
Or are they any good in jungles(like the marines are) if used non-para drop?
Dr

Well they should be.. (as with other elite forces)
a) Greater Org than normal forces.
b) Extensive Automatic weapons (i.e. greater than normal divisions) which
should make them good in Urban fighting. (as per historical Germany)

Drawback would be against Armour.. but would expect them to be better than holding their own against normal forces.

Edit:
Got to admit that except for initially (like years ago) I hardly every research or build them. I restrict myself because the AI is incabable of launching Para Drops....

 

[Dr Rare]

Well they should be.. (as with other elite forces)
a) Greater Org than normal forces.
b) Extensive Automatic weapons (i.e. greater than normal divisions) which
should make them good in Urban fighting. (as per historical Germany)

Drawback would be against Armour.. but would expect them to be better than holding their own against normal forces.

Edit:
Got to admit that except for initially (like years ago) I hardly every research or build them. I restrict myself because the AI is incabable of launching Para Drops....

Ah ha that's it i think ,better for Urban fighting!

I must admit i rarely para drop in game ,normally just Norway ,i tend to take Crete with an invasion and then sometimes paradrop from Crete on Jerusalem take the immediate area reinforce and then take out Saudi and puppet it after a para drop on Mecca....but thats about the most paradropping i have ever done.I do not like to para drop to reinforce in the field i would rather strategically deploy.

Dr

 

[candrews]

Special Forces Vital for UK Strategy

I find that although special forces are unnecessary as the majors (USA, Germany, USSR), they are of greater significance to countries w/ limited manpower yet slightly higher IC - case in point, England.

England has quite a bit of IC spread across her dominion, yet lacks comparable manpower reserves. Additionally, she has to fight and defend in jungle and coastal regions - terrain where mountaineers and marines have a bonus. Therefore, it makes good sense to build and develop the special forces of mountain troops and marines. Paratroopers may be an exception; the IC required to create and develop their traits may perhaps be better spent elsewhere (e.g., RAF fighters, infantry tech, etc.). However, it is nice to have the prerogative of dropping a unit into places where it would otherwise take months to reach, so if you can spare some IC points and conserve your land forces it may be worth considering.

England is in the peculiar position of not being able to decide the course of war early on; you have to play conservatively or stick to the defensive (at least on land - you OWN the sea). Having special forces helps to put out those little "fires" that crop up - e.g., small German invasions of Norway, Italian ventures in the Mediterranean, Japanese invasions of the eastern peninsula. My only complaint is that Dr. Rare hasn't cooked up some Highlander sprites for the UK, complete with tartans and bagpipes!

 

[Dr Rare]

I find that although special forces are unnecessary as the majors (USA, Germany, USSR), they are of greater significance to countries w/ limited manpower yet slightly higher IC - case in point, England.

Yeah i agree,altough i still build specilist trops for whatever country i am playing just for the fun factor

England has quite a bit of IC spread across her dominion, yet lacks comparable manpower reserves. Additionally, she has to fight and defend in jungle and coastal regions - terrain where mountaineers and marines have a bonus. Therefore, it makes good sense to build and develop the special forces of mountain troops and marines. Paratroopers may be an exception; the IC required to create and develop their traits may perhaps be better spent elsewhere (e.g., RAF fighters, infantry tech, etc.). However, it is nice to have the prerogative of dropping a unit into places where it would otherwise take months to reach, so if you can spare some IC points and conserve your land forces it may be worth considering.

I also liketo use Marines as Jungle fighters once you tech up a bit (In core anyway) the specialists berg,marines and paras come into their own.

England is in the peculiar position of not being able to decide the course of war early on; you have to play conservatively or stick to the defensive (at least on land - you OWN the sea). Having special forces helps to put out those little "fires" that crop up - e.g., small German invasions of Norway, Italian ventures in the Mediterranean, Japanese invasions of the eastern peninsula.

For a long time i did not play as England as i was inexperianced and unsure of how to run all the convoys ..BUT playing as Portugal which is a bit quieter is a great way to learn how to convoy and supplie your empire.

My only complaint is that Dr. Rare hasn't cooked up some Highlander sprites for the UK, complete with tartans and bagpipes!

:rofl:My sides are hurting....but what is really funny(Without mentioning the inaccuracy of fighting in Kilts during WW2) is that i have Actually tried to make one in the past,unfortunately not everything works out as you wish and my test image looked like a Transvestite wearing a helmet being attacked by a large spider

Hoots!

But if you want to see whats coming soon sprite wise check out all these new sprite designs i am previewing in last few posts in this thread....
http://www.stonyroad.de/forum/showthread.php?t=6681&page=25

Dr

 

[unmerged(165718)]

Hoots!

But if you want to see whats coming soon sprite wise check out all these new sprite designs i am previewing in last few posts in this thread....
http://www.stonyroad.de/forum/showthread.php?t=6681&page=25

Dr

I have taken a look at those new tank designs and I am especially excited to see that transport plane, Dr. Rare!

What about British Cromwell tank?

Do you by chance have any plan to make some more upgrades for the Soviet armed forces in the near future? I would especially love to see a new transport plane for the Soviet, as I like to use it a lot

Oh, and by chance, do you happen to have a special Soviet marine sprite? I am looking for soviet marine sprite with the black suit and black cap, the legendary "black jackets" for the defense of the beloved Sevastopol!

 

[Dr Rare]

I have taken a look at those new tank designs and I am especially excited to see that transport plane, Dr. Rare!

So you liked the look of the Italian one there is a whole Transport plane project!ITA,USA,ENG,SOV and even a Polish One!

What about British Cromwell tank?

Not planned Yet!But the new Crusader looks great...

Do you by chance have any plan to make some more upgrades for the Soviet armed forces in the near future? I would especially love to see a new transport plane for the Soviet, as I like to use it a lot

You will be pleased to know i have a New soviet Transport plane ready it is a Soviet Dakota(IL-2),Brits & USA will have a different paint job....

Also you might have seen the preview for the New T-26 for soviets L-1 tank much nicer than paradox original!

Oh, and by chance, do you happen to have a special Soviet marine sprite? I am looking for soviet marine sprite with the black suit and black cap, the legendary "black jackets" for the defense of the beloved Sevastopol!

Yes i do ,its one of my oldest and most popular sprites.....
http://www.stonyroad.de/forum/showpost.php?p=94798&postcount=4

But you are gong to have to wait a few days for the new stuff to be available as i have a operation tomorrow and will need to recover,so Hoi1 sprite fans better hope that i survive!

Dr

 

[unmerged(165718)]

So you liked the look of the Italian one there is a whole Transport plane project!ITA,USA,ENG,SOV and even a Polish One!

Not planned Yet!But the new Crusader looks great...

You will be pleased to know i have a New soviet Transport plane ready it is a Soviet Dakota(IL-2),Brits & USA will have a different paint job....

Also you might have seen the preview for the New T-26 for soviets L-1 tank much nicer than paradox original!
Yes i do ,its one of my oldest and most popular sprites.....
http://www.stonyroad.de/forum/showpost.php?p=94798&postcount=4

But you are gong to have to wait a few days for the new stuff to be available as i have a operation tomorrow and will need to recover,so Hoi1 sprite fans better hope that i survive!

Dr

Ah, the Soviet transport plane looks very much in tone with my VDV with its green spots! Pretty sure I am going to like that transport to carry them around!

And yes, I am eagerly going to wait for the new Soviet T-26 from your collection. The paradox original one looks like a yellow blackboard eraser.:wacko:

I sincerely wish you good luck in your upcoming operation, Dr. Rare!
What type of operation would that be? A GI-tract surgery case? Or perhaps a cardiac vessel bypass graft?

Regards,
Zhukov GK

 

[unmerged(20887)]

Get well soon, Doc. Will you be performing the operation yourself?

But you are gong to have to wait a few days for the new stuff to be available as i have a operation tomorrow and will need to recover,so Hoi1 sprite fans better hope that i survive!

Dr

 

[Dr Rare]

Still Alive!!!!!

Ah, the Soviet transport plane looks very much in tone with my VDV with its green spots! Pretty sure I am going to like that transport to carry them around!

Yeah me to ,i love my Soviet Paras in game and they needed a Good and historic transport plane!

And yes, I am eagerly going to wait for the new Soviet T-26 from your collection. The paradox original one looks like a yellow blackboard eraser.:wacko:

:rofl:
& Thanks a lot for your feedback ,it pleases me greatly when my sprites get approval from people of the actual nations i have made them for and i am very pleased to say that has happened a number of times.
Did you like my Soviet Naval Infantry/Marines sprite design?
I guess you have my Cossack cavalry types with the swords already?

I sincerely wish you good luck in your upcoming operation, Dr. Rare!
What type of operation would that be? A GI-tract surgery case? Or perhaps a cardiac vessel bypass graft?

No not that serious, but i have a great mistrust of Health system here and have experienced far to many horror stories within my own family and friends to be confident,hence my if i survive quote.
I had a Cholesteatoma operation,which sounds like arsehole cancer ,but its actually a disease of the middle ear which i have been suffering from terribly for over 5 years of regular monthly ear perforation and infection,seeing over 9 Doctors and specialist consultants during the time and losing 50% of my hearing in one ear under their immediate care and a number of times having to actually stop them causing cross contamination of my good ear,until i saw the very last guy ,who knew what is was instantly,just from reading my notes he was from Moldavia.

Get well soon, Doc. Will you be performing the operation yourself?

No i am just a Sprite Doctor....but i will be performing surgery on a number of New sprites

Thanks so much Hoi1 dudes for your well wishes.Give me a few days and i will be feeling Sprity again

Dr

 

[JRHINDO]

Hot damn, Doc! It's beatifull!

 

[unmerged(165718)]

Still Alive!!!!!
Yeah me to ,i love my Soviet Paras in game and they needed a Good and historic transport plane!

I hope the cholesteatoma operation was a success, Dr. Rare!

And I agreed that the VDV needed a good transport plane for them. It is also what I have been looking for around, but I just could not happen to find one before. I am certainly glad to see that you took time to make that Soviet transport plane, complete with the green spots! I am sure it will be very nice to look at in game.

:rofl:
& Thanks a lot for your feedback ,it pleases me greatly when my sprites get approval from people of the actual nations i have made them for and i am very pleased to say that has happened a number of times.

Your welcome, Dr. Rare, it is my pleasure, too, to ask questions whether you happen to make newer sets of sprites for certain nations, as I think your sprites look very nice and authentic in game, and they are hassle-free to install.

Did you like my Soviet Naval Infantry/Marines sprite design?
I guess you have my Cossack cavalry types with the swords already?

I got your Cossack cavalry sprite with swords installed already, Doc!
I like to role play some with the game, as I think during the war actually there were cavalry forces used by the Soviets. I know game stat wise their performance is not good, but it is nice to put several with their historic leader if possible just for trying to imitate what really happened.

Regarding the Naval Assault Infantry, yes I chose to install the 2nd variation of your sprite 2 days ago. They really look nice now with their dark uniforms and black cap. Now they really look like the "Black Jackets", and they look fit for a post in Sevastopol

No not that serious, but i have a great mistrust of Health system here and have experienced far to many horror stories within my own family and friends to be confident,hence my if i survive quote.

I had a Cholesteatoma operation,which sounds like arsehole cancer ,but its actually a disease of the middle ear which i have been suffering from terribly for over 5 years of regular monthly ear perforation and infection,seeing over 9 Doctors and specialist consultants during the time and losing 50% of my hearing in one ear under their immediate care and a number of times having to actually stop them causing cross contamination of my good ear,until i saw the very last guy ,who knew what is was instantly,just from reading my notes he was from Moldavia.

Sounds like the last ENT specialist you met is the true specialist, is not he?
It sound like he is really professional; being able to figure out the problem just from reading your medical record. Moldavia is quite far from London, yes?

I hope the operation was a success, and I sincerely wish you will recover soon, Doc.

No i am just a Sprite Doctor....but i will be performing surgery on a number of New sprites

Thanks so much Hoi1 dudes for your well wishes.Give me a few days and i will be feeling Sprity again

Dr

Now those are some really great looking Switzerland and Swedish Fighters you have there!

I hope they will also be in the next package of your sprites, Doc!
Whenever they are finally ready for release, I am going to wait patiently.

In the meantime, I wish you get well soon!

 

[Dr Rare]

Hot damn, Doc! It's beatifull!

Here's some more Future Hoi1 eye candy

I hope the cholesteatoma operation was a success, Dr. Rare!

Thanks so far so good still a bit swollen and sore and on painkillers but my sprite skills are still functioning(see pic above)

And I agreed that the VDV needed a good transport plane for them. It is also what I have been looking for around, but I just could not happen to find one before.
I am certainly glad to see that you took time to make that Soviet transport plane, complete with the green spots! I am sure it will be very nice to look at in game.

Most of the new sprites are Hoi2 ones i have doctored for Hoi1,but of course there is no transport plane sprite for Hoi2 ,but ages ago Halibut made some hoi2 bmps for transports and then realized they didn't work and would not be usable so abandoned the project,but i kept hold of the files and kept trying!

Your welcome, Dr. Rare, it is my pleasure, too, to ask questions whether you happen to make newer sets of sprites for certain nations, as I think your sprites look very nice and authentic in game, and they are hassle-free to install.

Wow thanks great feedback,I have always strived to make them look authentic as possible within the size scale & detail limitations,because i use the paradox original sprites as a base for my work they do look very "paradoxian" in game and do not look out of place as they have the same similar style.I am glad you find them hassle free and easy to use as that is also another thing i always take into consideration.

I got your Cossack cavalry sprite with swords installed already, Doc!
I like to role play some with the game, as I think during the war actually there were cavalry forces used by the Soviets. I know game stat wise their performance is not good, but it is nice to put several with their historic leader if possible just for trying to imitate what really happened.

I do exactly the same thing myself and yes the Soviets used quite a lot of cavalry.

Regarding the Naval Assault Infantry, yes I chose to install the 2nd variation of your sprite 2 days ago. They really look nice now with their dark uniforms and black cap. Now they really look like the "Black Jackets", and they look fit for a post in Sevastopol

Excellent

Sounds like the last ENT specialist you met is the true specialist, is not he?
It sound like he is really professional; being able to figure out the problem just from reading your medical record. Moldavia is quite far from London, yes?

Chuckle yes but he works here!

I hope the operation was a success, and I sincerely wish you will recover soon, Doc.

Thanks all good so far!

Now those are some really great looking Switzerland and Swedish Fighters you have there!

Yeah i like them to!Those Swiss Me109 look sweet with their paint job!

I hope they will also be in the next package of your sprites, Doc!
Whenever they are finally ready for release, I am going to wait patiently.

In the meantime, I wish you get well soon!

thanks.All sprites in pics are fully tested and working and I will upload them all once i have recovered a bit more.I am very glad to see there is still interest in new Hoi1 sprites

Dr

 

[JRHINDO]

Here's some more Future Hoi1 eye candy

Dr

You are the true sprite master of these lands Doc!
Such details on the carrier!

What are those "usatorpedobomber" tho?
Look like a F4F wildcat or one of its kin.

 

[Dr Rare]

You are the true sprite master of these lands Doc!

Well these new tank and plane ones are really conversions of Hoi2 sprites which are conversions of Civ game sprites ,the Soldier sprites are really my own design stuff...But i will take credit for the time consuming conversion from hoi2 to Hoi1 size and positioning .

Such details on the carrier!

Well that is a very old Hoi1 sprite and not really my work at all just stuff i have saved and re-packed user friendly style.But its is great that it has little blue planes on it to match my new work!The Naval sprites are all available here in this thread in packs...http://www.stonyroad.de/forum/showthread.php?t=8127

What are those "usatorpedobomber" tho?
Look like a F4F wildcat or one of its kin.

Yes indeed well recognized it is a Grumman ,you get to be posted to the roof with binoculars!

But actually the original Hoi2 sprite is a F8F Bearcat!(Growl mieow!sounds cute )Which is a little poetic sprite license ,But after shrinking to hoi1 size & scale it could pass for any of the Grumman WW2 planes..Bearcat,Wildcat or Hellcat in game IMO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F8F_Bearcat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F4F_Wildcat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F6F_Hellcat
Or even a Corsair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F4U_Corsair

As the Torpedo plane cannot upgrade in game and represents all USA Carrier planes and types and the fact that all these types looked so similar in real life and were upgrades of the same design really i decided this was the nicest all round looking design for the game.Especially as it uses the US Navy aviation blue paint job.

Dr

 

[JRHINDO]

I knew there was something fishy here!

 

[candrews]

Not to wrest the conversation away from new sprites (yay!), but special forces are not very good at typical infantry roles. The mountain, marine, and paratrooper units start with lower combat values and are costly to raise. Yes, you can "tech up" a paratrooper unit, but for the same IC and time you could have a whole corps of infantry.

Special troops work best in 'special' places and contexts, i.e.,

Marines work well in amphibious assaults,
Mountain Troops excel over infantry in hilly and mountainous regions,
and Paras are good for taking weakly defended or unoccupied territory.

So, if you anticipate a lot of mountain and hill fighting or plan to launch an amphibious assault, special forces are a good idea.

However, for countries such as Germany that find most of their fighting on flat territory, it it more efficient to invest in non-special forces, i.e., infantry, mech, armor, etc.