Werewolf Lite CLXXXVII: 2001, A Space Odyssey

[the_hdk]

I on the other hand don't get wolf vibes from thistle and I think he's a bad lynch looking at yesterday.

we need to look at players who havn't got many votes yet or have been very active

vote Eternaly_Lost

 

[Lord_D]

It does serve a purpose actually. It shows who is likely to vote on whom, and can provide useful analysis on various players.

It doesn't.

Unvote Thistletooth, Vote jonti-h

All it shows I can hold my vote on TT for a few hours. It's of no consequence. The problem here is that it's very easy to make false conclusions out of it. If everyone constantly switches their votes the wolves won't try to rescue a packmate if he gets a lot of votes, because they know there's a very good chance he'll get away with no effort. They can very easily even just join in the bandwagon, because they know you'll all just throw the votes some other way.

This way of voting does nothing but create chaos and mayhem, it's the way the last game started, and I don't think it ended very well.

 

[randakar]

The last game was a pretty close call though.
But there is some truth to that I guess, EURO's continued jumps back and forth and pushing for Thistle did create a bit of a smokescreen.

Dunno. I was going to unvote jonti after I've annoyed him enough but a) it doesn't seem to be working and b) I'd like to see a count first.

and c) - I do suspect jonti a little after yesterday. Not just because of his fake anger, but .. what he did there was drive the vote away from himself basically on his own. I don't mind seeing a bit more of a threat on him today, to see what happens.

 

[jonti-h]

It doesn't.

Unvote Thistletooth, Vote jonti-h

All it shows I can hold my vote on TT for a few hours. It's of no consequence. The problem here is that it's very easy to make false conclusions out of it. If everyone constantly switches their votes the wolves won't try to rescue a packmate if he gets a lot of votes, because they know there's a very good chance he'll get away with no effort. They can very easily even just join in the bandwagon, because they know you'll all just throw the votes some other way.

This way of voting does nothing but create chaos and mayhem, it's the way the last game started, and I don't think it ended very well.

You're wrong, and voting me because you disagree? Go jump in the lake.

Vote Lord D.

The whole point, which the ape-creatures of the Indus can see, is that nobody knows when the vote swaps stop. Therefore, you don't want to risk a packmate by putting them in the lead. It really is very simple.

Your activity, or lack of it yesterday, screams "wolf" to TT, and also to me. You knew what was happening, and decided to keep out of it, so you would not be implicated in hanging a villager. Classic wolf tactic.

The last game was a pretty close call though.
But there is some truth to that I guess, EURO's continued jumps back and forth and pushing for Thistle did create a bit of a smokescreen.

That's when the wolves lead it, in that case it's dangerous. However, with a seer in the game (who died early last time) the wolves controlling the vote so obviously is suicidal.

Dunno. I was going to unvote jonti after I've annoyed him enough but a) it doesn't seem to be working and b) I'd like to see a count first.

You know, as much as your hard-on for killing me at any chance wears thin (and I would certainly have hunted you yesterday had I got a chance) I don't really care about your meta-feud with me. It's as significant as an ant in the Kalahari.

and c) - I do suspect jonti a little after yesterday. Not just because of his fake anger, but .. what he did there was drive the vote away from himself basically on his own.

You're either ignorant of WW history, or you are so blinkered by the fact I got on your tits that you need to visit an optician.

If you suspect me because of what you call "fake anger" then you are an idiot. You need to look over werewolf games in the past, and every time I am accused of being a wolf wrongly, I act *exactly* like that. The fact that you do not like me should not enter into it.

I drove votes away from me with something called "persuasive arguments" you ought to try it some time.

I don't mind seeing a bit more of a threat on him today, to see what happens.

Right, so the bandwagon on me yesterday wasn't enough for you? Stop massaging your ego and play werewolf.

What will happen? If you get me killed yet again, you will die on the first night of any game that I am a werewolf. That is a solemn promise.

 

[Lord_D]

The whole point, which the ape-creatures of the Indus can see, is that nobody knows when the vote swaps stop.

Of course everyone knows when it stops. The deadline.

Your activity, or lack of it yesterday, screams "wolf" to TT, and also to me. You knew what was happening, and decided to keep out of it, so you would not be implicated in hanging a villager. Classic wolf tactic.

Over half of the village was run up at some time and you say I as the supposed wolf saw no supposed packmate in there? If that's what you think it's obviously an argument against your little voteswitchtactic, because it would mean for all the effort you guys did you wouldn't have put a single baddie's life in danger.

Which really would be.. quite a failure.

 

[jonti-h]

Of course everyone knows when it stops. The deadline.

No it doesn't.
Vote swings happen when there are one or two players organising them. Only a handful of players *can* organise them. When they decide to stop, the swinging stops. Any movement away from that candidate flags up wolfishness.

Over half of the village was run up at some time and you say I as the supposed wolf saw no supposed packmate in there?

This game, there were about 4 players run up. It is pretty likely that the wolves did hide away from voting each other - at least early on.

If that's what you think it's obviously an argument against your little voteswitchtactic, because it would mean for all the effort you guys did you wouldn't have put a single baddie's life in danger.

Just because you don't know how something works, does not mean it does not work. I can't explane how a microwave oven works, but it seems to get food pretty hot.

Which really would be.. quite a failure.

If it had even the scantest basis in fact it would. As it doesn't, it's not.

AOK's an excellent player. That tactic gets him wolves.
TT's bloody good, it works for him.
I'm not bad, it works for me
EURO's hardly a n00b and it works for him.

EDIT: Look at it like this:

You are a wolf, Randakar is your packmate, as is the_hdk and EURO.
Thistletooth organises a bandwagon on Randakar.

What do you do? You avoid it and stand out or you join it and risk killing your packmate? You also can give yourself away with the timing and wording of your vote.

EDIT2: This is like me "manipulating" Randy yesterday. If you put pressure on the wolves, you take them out of their comfort zone. This makes them act in ways they would not like - vote switches endanger their packmates, getting up Randy's nose made him show more than he intended.

 

[Lord_D]

No it doesn't.
Vote swings happen when there are one or two players organising them. Only a handful of players *can* organise them. When they decide to stop, the swinging stops. Any movement away from that candidate flags up wolfishness.

Perhaps it used to stop early on, but lately - well since I returned - it's simply going on without never stopping. It gets sort of absurd.

This game, there were about 4 players run up. It is pretty likely that the wolves did hide away from voting each other - at least early on.

No. The players with 2 or more votes - which I would consider a treshold for danger - were walrus, TT, kaetje, you, the_hdk, marty and randakar. That's 7. Out of 13. If none of those are baddies well then, good job.

If it had even the scantest basis in fact it would. As it doesn't, it's not.

You are a wolf, Randakar is your packmate, as is the_hdk and EURO.
Thistletooth organises a bandwagon on Randakar.

What do you do? You avoid it and stand out or you join it and risk killing your packmate? You also can give yourself away with the timing and wording of your vote.

Well, that might have been the case. But nowadays the scenario goes on further. jonti would organize a bandwagon on yakman, tornadoli on thistletooth, marty would suddenly get banged for joining all three of them, and THAT's the moment I wake up and come to the conclusion there's no work for me left, and quietly slip in a vote.

It's simply progressing too fast. Players aren't around 24h a day, you may switch and create irritating situations for them all you want, but if the ickysticky situation only sticks around for an hour and they're offline during that hour (which is quite possible) they simply won't have to deal with it.

 

[jonti-h]

Perhaps it used to stop early on, but lately - well since I returned - it's simply going on without never stopping. It gets sort of absurd.

The point being that it does not have to, and it doesn't always go up to the deadline.

If it was as predictable as that, I'd agree with you 100%.

No. The players with 2 or more votes - which I would consider a treshold for danger - were walrus, TT, kaetje, you, the_hdk, marty and randakar. That's 7. Out of 13. If none of those are baddies well then, good job.

I think that your threshold for danger is a touch low, which is where we disagree.

It's simply progressing too fast. Players aren't around 24h a day, you may switch and create irritating situations for them all you want, but if the ickysticky situation only sticks around for an hour and they're offline during that hour (which is quite possible) they simply won't have to deal with it.

Yeah, but the switches usually happen around deadline and players who cannot be around at deadline don't often sign up. Not only that but the chance of every wolf being offline at the deadline is rather remote - unless it's a game organised by someone like Jamie or Ciry.

 

[Eternaly_Lost]

Well, I am half temped to vote right now, but I honestly want to see how things go between Lord D and Jonti-h, go ahead and continue, I wait for you two to finish.

 

[jonti-h]

Well, I am half temped to vote right now, but I honestly want to see how things go between Lord D and Jonti-h, go ahead and continue, I wait for you two to finish.

We're just discussing WW tactics, nothing to put you off voting.

 

[Thistletooth]

Or a goodie showing up and thinkin you were all creating an impossible mess I don't want to be a part of. Seriously, I don't like changing my vote 5 times on one day. It serves no purpose, and to my opinion is even a better indication of wolfishness as of goodness. A few games ago I always started the day voting someone, and subsequently voted someone else somewhere middag. And then people started getting suspicious of me.
It's all pretty random to me, it really is quite easy for a wolf to hide in all this voteswitching. He may even vote packmate for giggles and later unvote him, and no one would notice!

Vote Thistletooth

For now. I'll be a good wolfy today and mess up voting analysis!

As I said before, if I change my vote behaviour on the first day from the LSST, then I am likely to become suspect.

The walrus bandwagon feels very suspicious, and TT is giving me wolf vibes again, and that worked well last game.

Vote Thistletooth

Hmmm...the sudden loudmouth who's going after me, or the still-quiet one who's going after me? Decisions, decisions.

...

Either way, neither of you are doing anything to allay my suspicions of you. I just can't help it. I have to vote you both.

Unvote Strange
Vote Lordy


TT-approved vote count w 5.75 hours to go

jonti (2)...randy, Lordy
Lordy (2)...jonti, TT
TT...Strange
hdk...Kaet
Cuthy...yoenit
Losty...hdk

No votes: Cuthy, Losty

 

[Cuthuthulu]

I think TT may be on the right track. Both Strange and Lordy were active yesterday. However they also contributed very little of actual substance (Even less then me). Neither of them changed there vote even once.

Why did I vote Walrus? In retrospective it wasn't too smart, it is clear now that he simply wasn't here yesterday. However I'm bloody indecisive and haven't played a Werewolf game in years. In the end after changing my mind several times I stuck with the guy i initially voted for: Walrus.

Vote Lord D

He seems slightly more suspicious to me than strange.

 

[randakar]

You know, as much as your hard-on for killing me at any chance wears thin (and I would certainly have hunted you yesterday had I got a chance) I don't really care about your meta-feud with me. It's as significant as an ant in the Kalahari.

It's not really a meta-feud. It's just the overreaction you're displaying time and time again - it feels off.

If you suspect me because of what you call "fake anger" then you are an idiot. You need to look over werewolf games in the past, and every time I am accused of being a wolf wrongly, I act *exactly* like that. The fact that you do not like me should not enter into it.

.. but you also act like that if you're a wolf, aren't you?
edit: For the record, it's not that I don't like you, per sé. In fact, I do like you - except when you make it harder, like today
It's just the way you're appealing to emotional arguments - "you don't like me!?!! QQ" that makes me suspicious. Sorry.

I drove votes away from me with something called "persuasive arguments" you ought to try it some time.

Actually what I think mostly did it was the way you had a bandwagon sitting on you for a while. This made people think you probably weren't a wolf.

Right, so the bandwagon on me yesterday wasn't enough for you? Stop massaging your ego and play werewolf.

However, if you were a wolf then certainly your pack would be wise enough to not obviously drive another candidate up in the count .. so I'm not sure if it counts one way or another.

What will happen? If you get me killed yet again, you will die on the first night of any game that I am a werewolf. That is a solemn promise.

Jonti style threats .. sorry, I'm too used to seeing that.

Sorry, but if I die on the first night I'll just sub back in and campaign against you based on this very post of yours. Easy. And unlike villagers wolves do not get to sub back in

EDIT2: This is like me "manipulating" Randy yesterday. If you put pressure on the wolves, you take them out of their comfort zone. This makes them act in ways they would not like - vote switches endanger their packmates, getting up Randy's nose made him show more than he intended.

That's a bit hard, since I intend to show everything I have. I'm a villager, remember?


Anyway. I'm not decided on this. I may yet unvote jonti - the cases against Lord_D and LS do have some substance. I don't feel like joining the LD bandwagon though, and voting LS means voting jonti and destroying the close-ish vote we have now.

 

[Eternaly_Lost]

Like Randakar, I also find some substance to the cases against Lord_D and LS, however unlike him, I don't mind hopping on the bandwagon and throwing my weight on him, so.

Vote Lord_D

 

[Thistletooth]

Unvote Lordy
Vote Strange

Looking good, but let's get them both up in the mix.

 

[Lord_D]

I think that your threshold for danger is a touch low, which is where we disagree.

Perhaps. Just keep in mind this WW Lite. Well with only 13 players at start it's actually WW Anorexic ;-)

We're just discussing WW tactics, nothing to put you off voting.

Move on, nothing to see

However they also contributed very little of actual substance (Even less then me). Neither of them changed there vote even once.

There's so much to contribute on a first day isn't there? And I didn't change my vote enough yesterday? Let's rectify that now shall we!

Unvote jonti-h, Vote Cuthuthulu

 

[Thistletooth]

There's so much to contribute on a first day isn't there?

Yes, there is. Especially if you start the game a mere three days from parity.

 

[Lord_D]

Yes, there is. Especially if you start the game a mere three days from parity.

Tell me, how do I contribute? Shift my vote around like crazy? I'll do that next time.

 

[EUROO7]

My message storage unit has been repaired.

Private Messages may be received once more, Dave.

 

[Lord_D]

Lordy and Strange should be put up today. I don't like their activity levels yesterday; it was entirely consistent with a wolf showing up, seeing a bunch of goodies in the vote, and keeping their heads down.

By the way, I see there's a person missing on the people-who-only-voted-once-and-are-thus-clearly-baddies-list: Eternaly_lost. He only voted for walrus, and no one else. Today he jumped in, saw someone not in his pack being ganged and jumped on him. Clearly a baddie, that you for some reason missed.

*Ch- ch- ch- changes. Turn and change your vote!

Unvote cuthuthulu, Vote eternaly_lost