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ParadogsGamer

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Oct 27, 2007
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Bug?

So my Master of Ceremonies dies after having spend almost 1500 days of constructing a Guild Hall. He dies a few days before it is completed.
It turns out that the Guild Hall has to start over from the beginning with the new Master of Ceremonies in charge ( which is another 1400 days).
That surely can't be the intention??
 
Guess its the unwanted side effect of tieing buildings to characters.
You could imagine he died in a fire that burned down the guildhouse.

But he is only overseeing the project. Why would they tear down the building just because he dies?
It would be better to just suspend progress until a new Master of Ceremony has been appointed.
 
But he is only overseeing the project. Why would they tear down the building just because he dies?
It would be better to just suspend progress until a new Master of Ceremony has been appointed.

I agree it would be better to keep the progress. I don't think its moddable, maybe they'll add it in a patch. It shouldn't be hard to implement it.
 
Issue: Lose work improving castle if MoA dies

If you've started work improving a castle you lose it completely if your master of arms dies during the process. This shouldn't happen - it should remain partially completed and your new master of arms can pick it up where the former left off.

Probably the same should go for building village improvements as well.

Ugh, the same thing happens if your leader dies and you have succession. I'll never get this castle built!
 
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It's a game, you need to account for the fun factor regardless of what you think the "japanese thing to do" would be. And this is an annoying bug. It should be fixed.
 
It's not a bug, it's by design. You're a feudal ruler and heavily dependent upon other characters in governing your clan. Making some 60-year-old with bad health your master of arms and sending him out building castles is a gamble from your side. In a succession, it'll only happen if your heir was landed and had his own master of arms, in which case he'll probably out building a castle of his own... If you want total control, don't hand out land to your heir and he won't get any ideas of his own regarding what castles to build and who to make master of arms.
 
It's not a bug, it's by design. You're a feudal ruler and heavily dependent upon other characters in governing your clan. Making some 60-year-old with bad health your master of arms and sending him out building castles is a gamble from your side. In a succession, it'll only happen if your heir was landed and had his own master of arms, in which case he'll probably out building a castle of his own... If you want total control, don't hand out land to your heir and he won't get any ideas of his own regarding what castles to build and who to make master of arms.

But my Master of Ceremony died at the age of 32 for no apparent reason. So the 1400 days plus 2 times 180 extra days per events were completely wasted a couple of days before completion. And I had to start over with a new Master of Ceremonies.
My Heir was not involved at all.

If it's not a bug its a horribly bad design.
 
It's not a bug, it's by design. You're a feudal ruler and heavily dependent upon other characters in governing your clan. Making some 60-year-old with bad health your master of arms and sending him out building castles is a gamble from your side. In a succession, it'll only happen if your heir was landed and had his own master of arms, in which case he'll probably out building a castle of his own... If you want total control, don't hand out land to your heir and he won't get any ideas of his own regarding what castles to build and who to make master of arms.


Someone made a really bad call then. And you've gone above and beyond in your response trying to justify it... and it's just making the situation worse. And nobody was complaining about successions, but you've pointed out that this irritating problem will rear it's head there too. Just to re-iterate.

You appoint a Master of Ceremonies.
That Master of Ceremonies is told to begin building a village improvement.
That Master of Ceremonies dies 3 days before the improvement is finished.
As a consequence, the village improvement is incompleted, you must appoint a new master of ceremonies, and the village improvement starts over completely from day 1, INSTEAD of having only 3 days left before completion.

This sounds like a bug to me.

If it's NOT a bug, then whoever made the call on having something that annoying be part of the game design needs to get reprimanded for having incredibly bad ideas regarding game design. Because it's not only unrealistic, it's also incredibly annoying, which detracts from the fun factor every time it happens.

EDIT - And even your rationale for why improvements should need to start over from scratch if your character dies and his heir takes over is terrible. I would LOVE to see some historical references that would prove it was a COMMON occurance for an heir to succeed his father and say "Oh...you know what, that castle that my dad was building that is 95% complete....yeah, I'm going to ignore that completely and start a new one from scratch." Because I highly doubt you can find any sensible examples of that which can have an argument made for why it's acceptable to deliberately make a bad decision as far as game design.

If it looks like a bug, people are complaining about it being a bug, the worst thing you can do to your constituency is say "no, we did that to you on purpose, deal with it."

EDIT # 2 - On top of that, feudal society relied incredibly heavily on apprenticeships. It makes no sense to say "well, your master of arms is dead, and he had absolutely no apprentices working under him on the project that would be able to relay the project designs to the new master of arms competently enough that he could, at the very least, pick up where the old master of arms left off."

You couldn't become a master of anything without being taught first by someone else how to be, at the very least, proficient with something. Apprenticeship was a fact of life.
 
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The Devs could argue that it's just an abstraction and that it's not actually the castle being rebuild. But even that just makes it a not fun design.
Ok if an earthquake hits the building site, I'm willing to accept starting over, but the Master dies??
 
You should know the drill by now - it's not a bug, it's a feature! :p
 
paradox has lost its way. you are doing historical games, which are reflection of reality, thats why players expect the game to act logically... but paradox now puts so many fairy tale abstractions into game, and usually without any real logical reason behind it... then players play, expect something to act logically, and dont get the opposite - something they can not logically understand. that frustrates player. and every game should avoid that, because the more you frustrate players, the less games you sell. "loosing is fun" is only fun when you logically understand why you lose.

and why the death of master of arms would remove all his work done till that? was he casting a spell to create new castle? if you put such a mechanic in fantasy game, you can easily bend the rules of the world to your favor.. but this is real world rules. that wont work. you can and must make abstractions, but such a fairy tale mechanics are sad...
 
It is frustrating, but ok for me.