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yes it is.
it either needs blanketing - seers cannot PM anyone with any information whatsoever, hidden or suggested or otherwise - or it is as it is now, with loophole after loophole after loophole
I AM NOT THE SEER
also, what about the_hdk?
he's been quiet so far, and had throwaway votes the last two nights when there was "something" to go on. didn't participate in the suirantes lynch at all...
thoughts?
he's been quiet so far, and had throwaway votes the last two nights when there was "something" to go on. didn't participate in the suirantes lynch at all...
thoughts?
hdk has been busy with RL. Saturday is my football day so im not at home
while yesterday I wasn't much on my PC. wasnt subbed out of big for nothing TO GM: Please update 1st page
hdk has been busy with RL. Saturday is my football day so im not at home
TO GM: Please update 1st page
Nothing like meta-coherence...
Kiwi, what are you smoking? You said my vote on Suirantes was meaningless but when I voted Sui it was 4-4 with Suirantes not voting Rendap. I voted Sui, making it 4-5, so that Sui couldn't save himself. All he could do was tie Rendap to himself, something I could not have prevented. Were I a wolf, I could have voted for Rendap instead of Suirantes, and then it would have finished 6-4. I could even have wasted my vote and made it 5-4. My vote was decisive.
You can say I might have been alibiing on Suirantes, but it wasn't a meaningless vote, and it is foolish to assume it was an alibi vote with no other evidence to hand. We've got better suspects (Seen voters - Yak and King) to cover before we even think of going for low-odds plays. What is more, everyone who voted Seen could equally be accused of alibi voting, so it only makes me one of many targets.
Also you said I protected Esemesas on day one, but that's wrong. First vote of the day was you for Rockingluke, second was Sui for you, third was Bag for Ese, fourth was Seen for Ese, fifth was me for you. At best you can argue that I put it at 2-2 (FWIW my vote was cast on you without any notice of what else was going on) and my vote stayed there for the rest of the day. It stood at 4-4 with half an hour to go in Day 1, when you moved from Rockingluke onto Ese. If I was protecting Ese, why didn't I move my vote? I could simply have shifted my vote onto Seen earlier in the day and Ese would be alive now.
What my voting record shows is that on Day 1 when a single vote would have saved a wolf, I didn't act, and that on Day 2 when a single vote could give Sui a reprieve or else send him to hell, I sent him to hell. There is no reason for suspicion.
Kingepyon, who was the third voter for Seen, and Yakman, the second, who also tried some shenanigans as though he was the seer, are far, far better targets than me. I am disgusted that anyone would put a vote on me in this situation. You've got two prime suspects and you're looking at the guy who killed Suirantes. And while we're talking about alibis, I'd like someone to tell me of a packmate I've alibied on, let alone it being typical for me, and furthermore I'd like it to be recognized that hunting Randy and marty99 is the last thing I'd do, because like other people here I recognize that it simply means you can trust they're being sincere and not disingenuous.
Vote Kingepyon
You can say I might have been alibiing on Suirantes, but it wasn't a meaningless vote, and it is foolish to assume it was an alibi vote with no other evidence to hand. We've got better suspects (Seen voters - Yak and King) to cover before we even think of going for low-odds plays. What is more, everyone who voted Seen could equally be accused of alibi voting, so it only makes me one of many targets.
Also you said I protected Esemesas on day one, but that's wrong. First vote of the day was you for Rockingluke, second was Sui for you, third was Bag for Ese, fourth was Seen for Ese, fifth was me for you. At best you can argue that I put it at 2-2 (FWIW my vote was cast on you without any notice of what else was going on) and my vote stayed there for the rest of the day. It stood at 4-4 with half an hour to go in Day 1, when you moved from Rockingluke onto Ese. If I was protecting Ese, why didn't I move my vote? I could simply have shifted my vote onto Seen earlier in the day and Ese would be alive now.
What my voting record shows is that on Day 1 when a single vote would have saved a wolf, I didn't act, and that on Day 2 when a single vote could give Sui a reprieve or else send him to hell, I sent him to hell. There is no reason for suspicion.
Kingepyon, who was the third voter for Seen, and Yakman, the second, who also tried some shenanigans as though he was the seer, are far, far better targets than me. I am disgusted that anyone would put a vote on me in this situation. You've got two prime suspects and you're looking at the guy who killed Suirantes. And while we're talking about alibis, I'd like someone to tell me of a packmate I've alibied on, let alone it being typical for me, and furthermore I'd like it to be recognized that hunting Randy and marty99 is the last thing I'd do, because like other people here I recognize that it simply means you can trust they're being sincere and not disingenuous.
Vote Kingepyon
I was the third voter on Seen doing exactly what I would have done on day 1 whether esemesas was a wolf or not. It wouldn't have surprised me if suirantes put a vote on kiwi if I had voted against kiwi.
You're also forgetting that I was the first person to push suirantes the next day. When other people were talking about lynching Yakman or me, instead of just vote yakman (who already had one vote) I decided to push a new candidate at the time who I thought was a better candidate - and who was a wolf.
So I happened to save a wolf one day, voting the way I would normally, and pushed a wolf the second, but the fact that I participated in saving the first wolf means I'm damned this entire game?
That's like lynching Randy for protecting a wolf when he does his usual "third voter" vote.
"And while we're talking about alibis, I'd like someone to tell me of a packmate I've alibied on, let alone it being typical for me, and furthermore I'd like it to be recognized that hunting Randy and marty99 is the last thing I'd do, because like other people here I recognize that it simply means you can trust they're being sincere and not disingenuous. "
This can apply for me as well
You're making statements in your defence, and then you go and vote me, when they could apply to me in my defence. Unless you're just trying to find any excuse, you seem to contradict yourself. If those are ways to prove innocence in this situation, why aren't they applied to all?
All that aside, though, I still don't think you're the best lynch today. I think kiwi is going deep when he doesn't have to (yet). We have 2 days done with 2 wolves. We have plenty of time to do this without starting to look at conspiracy theories.
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(1) Yakman - Reis
(1) Rockingluke - Kiwi
(2) Vainglory - Yakman, Rockingluke
(2) Kingepyon - Vainglory, Seen
(1) Rockingluke - Kiwi
(2) Vainglory - Yakman, Rockingluke
(2) Kingepyon - Vainglory, Seen
I wouldn't be surprised if you're not a wolf and just voted Seen to push frontrunners. Perfectly valid.
And yeah, you deserve some credit for Suirantes. Rendap was among those caught out by Esemesas's death, and was a villager, so conceivably you could have pushed Rendap instead of Suirantes, and thereby undermined the case that the wolves voted for Seen(as it stands we know for certain that at least one wolf didn't help Esemesas) - derp, no Ese wasn't a Seen voter, so conceivably Yak and King are the last two wolves.
Nonetheless, when a wolf was in danger you voted his opposition, and it can be argued that you put Suirantes up there in order to cut your losses. You're a valid target, and moreso than me because I did not vote up the competition to a wolf.
I am more suspicious of Yakman, with his seer-stunt, and because he enthusiastically bought Kiwi's argument about me when it's a poor argument. A villager has no one to defend and can throw anyone under the bus, usually the most or next most suspicious person in the game, when need be. Yakman didn't throw you, or Luke, under a bus, so it looks like he's protecting someone by buying Kiwi's argument on me. However, he attracted some votes yesterday, and I don't want to dig through the entrails of yesterday. So that left you.
ADDED: if we were to run Yak up today as the opponent of Luke, and Luke was lynched, and Luke is a villager, I expect people would become interested in Yakman again, and we'd have a chew toy. Thus while I am tempted to move onto Yakman, I'd rather not poison the well for succeeding days. If we leave Yak alone for a few days and don't find any wolves, we can always return to him with a vengeance.
If not you, King, then who do you think we should be pursuing, taking Kiwi's case against Luke as making him a valid target and needing another?
And yeah, you deserve some credit for Suirantes. Rendap was among those caught out by Esemesas's death, and was a villager, so conceivably you could have pushed Rendap instead of Suirantes, and thereby undermined the case that the wolves voted for Seen
Nonetheless, when a wolf was in danger you voted his opposition, and it can be argued that you put Suirantes up there in order to cut your losses. You're a valid target, and moreso than me because I did not vote up the competition to a wolf.
I am more suspicious of Yakman, with his seer-stunt, and because he enthusiastically bought Kiwi's argument about me when it's a poor argument. A villager has no one to defend and can throw anyone under the bus, usually the most or next most suspicious person in the game, when need be. Yakman didn't throw you, or Luke, under a bus, so it looks like he's protecting someone by buying Kiwi's argument on me. However, he attracted some votes yesterday, and I don't want to dig through the entrails of yesterday. So that left you.
ADDED: if we were to run Yak up today as the opponent of Luke, and Luke was lynched, and Luke is a villager, I expect people would become interested in Yakman again, and we'd have a chew toy. Thus while I am tempted to move onto Yakman, I'd rather not poison the well for succeeding days. If we leave Yak alone for a few days and don't find any wolves, we can always return to him with a vengeance.
If not you, King, then who do you think we should be pursuing, taking Kiwi's case against Luke as making him a valid target and needing another?
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As Kingepyon said, all the arguments you make against him could apply to you.
Switch your vote to protect esemesas a second time? Like Suirantes did? Remind me again where Suirantes is now? You're too clever to try that.
If we are to suspect Yakman, it means that we must assume Suirantes would give the name of the packmate. A distinct possibility, but one we must weigh carefully.
And there are only two explanations for the hunts that I can think of. An inexperienced pack, so let's kill Rockingluke. Or a devious pack, delighting in toying with the village. I'm sure you'd admit to being capable of the latter. However, it is too early to take the complicated option when the simple one is still possible.
So suirantes could have been an alibi, and barring yesterday I'm the most suspicious of being a wolf.
Sure, when we ignore the day when I led a charge against a wolf, I'm the best suspect. Suirantes was the most suspicious person there. If you're trying to argue Yakman/me pack why would I pick a third member of our pack to push. If I wanted to alibi why not vote yakman? There was a pretty solid reason to vote him, almost as good as suirantes. It wouldn't have looked weird, or like I was trying to alibi. Yet I chose suirantes, someone who didn't have a vote to push for that day. You may have put the last vote on him, but I started the whole thing with a decent argument that people went for.
If we want to look at people saving wolves, we have yesterday to look at as well. Reis and miotas were pushing rendap when suirantes was getting pushed. They were protecting a wolf. Reis vote came on Rendap after Rendap voted for reis. He didn't even have a good reason:
This post was the start of the pile on Rendap. Sure, he voted Seen. But if Rendap wanted to save esemesas, why didn't he vote for kiwi at the time, who was already at 2 votes when esemesas was. Rendap was not a good target for yesterday. Yet that lacking argument from reis provoked these votes:
They ignored the fact there was an actual case against me/yakman/suirantes, and voted for Rendap. Why aren't we focusing more on these people? Why ignore this information.
Why are we clearing Seen? We could have been running up 2 wolves day 1. He protected a wolf yesterday as well, and voted Rendap.
Because Seen was second voter on esemesas, and Suirantes switched to Seen to protect esemesas. It would take a particularly bloodthirsty pack for Seen to be guilty. Likewise, miotas placed an important vote on esemesas.
As for Rockingluke, well that's why we're not ignoring him.
As for Rockingluke, well that's why we're not ignoring him.
That's true. I was just going back to day 1 to check out all of those people to see why some of these people have been less suspicious and why some have been more suspicious.
Edit: Miotas tied up Seen and esemesas at 4-4. He's pretty clear.
Edit 2: There's always the option of alibiing on the first and protecting the second. I remember someone doing that in a recent game
But that's no reason to vote him now.
Well, this is fun:
(5) Rendap - Reis, miotas, Seen, rockingluke, Suirantes
(5) Suirantes - Kingepyon, Yakman, Capt. Kiwi, Rendap, Vainglory
(5) esemesas - Bagricula, seen, reis91, miotas, Capt. Kiwi
(4) Seen - Rendap, Yakman, Kingepyon, suirantes
People who voted to save the wolf the first day, are lynching the wolf the second, and the people who lynched the wolf the first day, are trying to save it the second.
Hmm.
(5) Rendap - Reis, miotas, Seen, rockingluke, Suirantes
(5) Suirantes - Kingepyon, Yakman, Capt. Kiwi, Rendap, Vainglory
(5) esemesas - Bagricula, seen, reis91, miotas, Capt. Kiwi
(4) Seen - Rendap, Yakman, Kingepyon, suirantes
People who voted to save the wolf the first day, are lynching the wolf the second, and the people who lynched the wolf the first day, are trying to save it the second.
Hmm.
I'm more inclined to believe the second was an alibi, myself. Suirantes was clearly a dead man. But there are enough people voting third parties that we don't quite have to reac for the tinfoil hats yet.
I'd like to hear a case for someone other than Vainglory, Kingepyon or Rockingluke. Someone mentioned the_hdk, that could be worth looking at. But I still think Rockingluke is the best target for today.
I'd like to hear a case for someone other than Vainglory, Kingepyon or Rockingluke. Someone mentioned the_hdk, that could be worth looking at. But I still think Rockingluke is the best target for today.
So he's done nothing, good or bad? He'd be a good lynch, although perhaps not as good as Rockingluke.