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goodwood2 said:
A third may be by definition, but not a third party says I must be connected to internet or where I must down load my patch. It doesn't matter much I buy the game where I want and if they don't sell I don't buy it Its just a game not necessity :cool:
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When they begin to lease seven-days rights to cook pork to yer, it will quickly turns in necessity :p
 
So they are a third party then. Sorry I've never used Gamersgate but if you don't connect to the internet then how the hell do you receive the download?
 
P-51 said:
So they are a third party then. Sorry I've never used Gamersgate but if you don't connect to the internet then how the hell do you receive the download?
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You don't.

You need connection to the 'Net to download the installer and game files, but not to run the installer. Once the installation and game files have been downloaded you can store them onto your computer and run the game's installer without being connected to the Internet.
 
Kluska said:
You don't.

You need connection to the 'Net to download the installer and game files, but not to run the installer. Once the installation and game files have been downloaded you can store them onto your computer and run the game's installer without being connected to the Internet.
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So its exactly the same as Steam then.
 
P-51 said:
So its exactly the same as Steam then.
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With Gamersgate et al. you only download an installer once, which will then install the game. Once that's done, you don't need to have any spyware installed, to run the game. With steam, you constantly have their stuff running in the background, monitoring you, requiring you to activate, ... . Also there have been LOADS of problems with steam distributed game versions, then it comes to modding (see the DH, HOI3, HOI2, Victoria, EU3 forums). Several developers are even distributing patches that replace the steam-content(executable + some libs), to make your copy a retail on, so you can "play it's meant to be played" (to quote a graphics chip manufacturer).

So: please make this game NOT steam exclusive, as i would never be able play it then. It's OK if you sell it via steam too, but i really would love to buy this :D, don't prevent me from buying it.
 
The problem with steam is mostly that the thing is required to install the game and their servers aren't really up to the task. I have a friend with very low internet capacity who just can't install from Steam. With Gamersgate, you can download elsewhere, take the installer with you and install at home. My favorite option is however how GOG and Matrix do it...you download the installer when you're logged in on any computer, you make a backup and install again anytime you want. I wished Paradox would consider this.
 
s1234567890m said:
....not with paradox games, also a heads up your ISP probably has all that info anyway
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Your provider does not force you to install their sniffer on your computer, to use their service. Your (and my) provider does not know, what game i play when, how long, what i do in there, who i talk/text to, what hardware is in my computer, what OS is installed, the patch level, and any installed software. Valve publicizes reports generated based on this data (of course just very basic statistics), but there is also no way of preventing them from collecting that data. A provider may be forced to collection connection-related data, due to your countries law, but that again is (usually) tightly regulated. Valve is a US company, their data protection policy is something like a joke, look at EA's Origin, and see what happens if people start reading those EULAs.

Regardless of that: just because others do things too, not make it any less despicable :). If you pirate a game, it's not less wrong, just because others to the same constantly. If i you rob a bank, the fact that others did that, does not make it less a crime, now does it?
 
Burning said:
Your provider does not force you to install their sniffer on your computer, to use their service. Your (and my) provider does not know, what game i play when, how long, what i do in there, who i talk/text to, what hardware is in my computer, what OS is installed, the patch level, and any installed software. Valve publicizes reports generated based on this data (of course just very basic statistics), but there is also no way of preventing them from collecting that data. A provider may be forced to collection connection-related data, due to your countries law, but that again is (usually) tightly regulated. Valve is a US company, their data protection policy is something like a joke, look at EA's Origin, and see what happens if people start reading those EULAs.

Regardless of that: just because others do things too, not make it any less despicable :). If you pirate a game, it's not less wrong, just because others to the same constantly. If i you rob a bank, the fact that others did that, does not make it less a crime, now does it?
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They dont need sniffers programs, every thing goes through them, any thing to do with the internet they potentially know what has been done... whos to say they dont download things for your computer.... And those windows, making you run games through there OS... definitely evil
 
s1234567890m said:
They dont need sniffers programs, every thing goes through them, any thing to do with the internet they potentially know what has been done... whos to say they dont download things for your computer.... And those windows, making you run games through there OS... definitely evil
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Please reread my posting :)

Steam/valves explicitly states they do misuse this information, and will sell it.

Yes, everything you do on the net goes through your providers network. Difference is: A provider does forward your data, as the actual service bought by you. They are not supposed to sell that data to a third party. Steam/valve does not collect data on your network traffic, but MUCH more, much more critical information. Also, providers are supposed to safeguard and NOT use this information, whereas steam/valves does, to sell it to anyone with cash at hand. :)
 
I so prefer Gamers Gate to Steam. So +1
 
P-51 said:
So they are a third party then. Sorry I've never used Gamersgate but if you don't connect to the internet then how the hell do you receive the download?
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They're referring to the 3rd Party Program that is Steam. Gamersgate does not require an advert/spyware program to be installed with their games, as it's a simple web site login which provides a traditional, non-invasive downloadable game installer package.

To whomever implied that avoiding Steam is only a psychological situation, with no real difference, you are wrong. I've had issues with Steam in the past, their CS is absolutely terrible. The latest issue, after purchasing DCS Black Shark, nobody could play their new game for seven days afterward. Steam's customer service even sent terrible cut & paste recommendations to a few, telling them to uninstall everything in Steam and redownload/install again - thus spending hours downloading their games all for not. Just because they didn't bother to insert a new batch of game keys they'd been sitting on for a week. While I've experienced two and three day lock-outs like that before, with Steam, it's only been getting worse as time goes by. Luckily I only have a very few games there - I've given it a fair shot.

Between such service issues, their update messing up my modded installation (even after being shut off!), and Steam's recent hacking & password loss, my view of their service has become even worse. While developers may have it easier uploading their patches to their Steam games, I'm finding that service on the customer end is less than decent. I hope to see software companies using more than one retail outlet for their products, as I've been disappointed with the somewhat shady exclusive Steam deals in the past, and refused to buy such products near release.

While there are some advantages to Steam, as a customer I've found it a poor service with regular frustrating setbacks.
 
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Some people made a note about modding not being possible on steam this is 100% incorrect.

I don't even know where to start. Not only does steam allow modding but they've actually begun supporting it in some games.

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim now uses Steam workshop, which allows players to look at mods uploaded to steam, and to install them, no trying to figure out where to put it, or if it's compatible with your current patch. Steam downloads and installs the mod for the player, it also updates the mod if the modder submits uploaded files.

Additionally even without the workshop players have been modding steam games for a long time. Ever play Gmod? there are thousands of player made addons for it.
 
xGhost4000x said:
Some people made a note about modding not being possible on steam this is 100% incorrect.

I don't even know where to start. Not only does steam allow modding but they've actually begun supporting it in some games.

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim now uses Steam workshop, which allows players to look at mods uploaded to steam, and to install them, no trying to figure out where to put it, or if it's compatible with your current patch. Steam downloads and installs the mod for the player, it also updates the mod if the modder submits uploaded files.

Additionally even without the workshop players have been modding steam games for a long time. Ever play Gmod? there are thousands of player made addons for it.
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I agree.

I may not prefer to use Steam, but I do hate to see false information - such as that - spread about it.

People seem to criticize Steam about limiting modding capabilities when it is, in-fact, the developers of that particular game that do such a thing.
 
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