Feedback on 1.08

[Pioniere]

I have been talking about the last this is my last add for 1.8 manchukuo Japans pupet no.1 before WW2 could need a little boost. If you dont have time for it its ok Pang.

manchukuo.rar
http://www.sendspace.com/file/x906nd

Ma Zhanshan;250041;MAN;1932;1935;1940;1990;3;4;4;1;0;5;0;L_MAN_Zhanshan;1932;1950;x
Xi;250042;MAN;1932;1935;1990;1990;3;4;1;1;0;5;0;L_MAN_XiaQia;1932;1964;x

6413;Xi Qia;T_MAN_XiaQia;3;1934;1970;large_unit_tactics;infantry_focus;centralized_execution;training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x
6414;Manchukuo Imperial Navy;T_MAN_Manchukuo_Navy;2;1932;1970;centralized_execution;small_taskforce_tactics;naval_training;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Using the 'debugai' cheat I was able to see AI Germany filling its production queue with pointless infrastructure builds.

So you are refering to the late game. But that is WAD aswell. I disagree on the interpretation that they are pointless.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

So you are refering to the late game. But that is WAD aswell. I disagree on the interpretation that they are pointless.

I mean from 1936, I don't see why building infrastructure in places like Wilhelmshafen and other lower IC and low resource provinces is beneficial to any significant margin and is probably a waste of IC when you do all the complicated maths. Germany should be focusing on its military in the pre-war period, with IC and infra building concentrated on the high resource and IC provinces (i.e. Berlin, Cologne, Leipzig, Dresden, Stuttgart, Hannover, Oppeln and possibly Dortmund, Saarbrucken, Essen and Frankfurt too). Also it would be good to see Germany building infra in Metz as well, reducing its reliance on Sweden for metal, but since Metz is a hill the AI would need to be able to speed up production to make it worthwhile. But getting the AI to use the speed up feature would only open up another pandora's box with it probably wasting much more IC then it would need too.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

I mean from 1936, I don't see why building infrastructure in places like Wilhelmshafen and other lower IC and low resource provinces is beneficial to any significant margin and is probably a waste of IC when you do all the complicated maths.

Then this is not the AI, but the regular building queue. One can argue if germany should build infra where only 1 rare is located, but this will increase ic by about 0.4 in the long run.

Germany should be focusing on its military in the pre-war period,

It does build enough military already. Having enough manpower to reinforce, having enough ic to upgrade it and having enough TC to utilize is the best way to utilize free ic. One can argue when comparing with building ships, but that is complicated.

Also it would be good to see Germany building infra in Metz as well, reducing its reliance on Sweden for metal, but since Metz is a hill the AI would need to be able to speed up production to make it worthwhile.

There is no need to speed up production and there is no need to increase metal production unless oil is available in huge number for synthetic rares. But the AI does build Infra in Metz etc. anyway.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Then this is not the AI, but the regular building queue. One can argue if germany should build infra where only 1 rare is located, but this will increase ic by about 0.4 in the long run.

Surely the gearing bonus would make building in such a province pointless, and then after it's spent so long on this 1 rare, how much will it increase by? It's just a big waste of IC IMO, especially since it is done on many low IC and resource provinces.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

It needs about 12 years to gets its costs back in terms of pure ICD. This is not very good, indeed. But the alternatives are worse.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

It needs about 12 years to gets its costs back in terms of pure ICD. This is not very good, indeed. But the alternatives are worse.

How are the alternatives worse? One serial of infra (going on 1.07, I know 1.08 changes the infra builds to 5 but dunno how that affects the built times) could equal 10 submarines if not more for Germany (from 1936-39). Or it could be devoted to AA guns, radar stations, coastal and lands forts and so on. I don't see how these are worse then building something for several years with the benefit only being felt after 12 years, especially when Germany needs to really utilise the pre-war period if it's going to play historically.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

1. The Infra time is halved as well, so with the exception of gearing bonus there is no change.
2. Germany already has about 40 subs in 1939. And therefore looses them on a big scale.
3. Radar etc. are already build on huge scale from 1941 on.
4. As TC and manpower are the real bottlenecks for germany this 12 year estimation in terms of pure ICD is no good one.
5. With the given building queue germany plays quite well.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

1. The Infra time is halved as well, so with the exception of gearing bonus there is no change.

Good to know.

2. Germany already has about 40 subs in 1939. And therefore looses them on a big scale.

40 subs? It needs more then that to have any chance of winning, no wonder it looses them on a big scale.

Germany could start building land and coastal forts on a big scale if it's really low on manpower. If the AI could properly use and research the synthetic plants it could also dedicate IC to that.

 

[PB-DK]

infrastructure is also vital to supply efficiency, which will be a deciding factor in a campaign

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

infrastructure is also vital to supply efficiency, which will be a deciding factor in a campaign

Yes but the infrastructure of Wilhelmshafen or Munster or Rastenburg and so on doesn't really matter. The infrastructure of most if not all of western Europe is already high enough to ensure a good supply efficiency. Germany could build infrastructure in occupied USSR but I'd say even there the infrastructure is high enough already.

 

[Titan79]

1. The Infra time is halved as well, so with the exception of gearing bonus there is no change.

Really? In both 1.07 and the latest 1.08 beta6 I'm seeing infra always built in 5% intervals; then, the province has to be repaired to get the full 10% upgrade every infra level gives.

Am I missing something...?

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Really? In both 1.07 and the latest 1.08 beta6 I'm seeing infra always built in 5% intervals; then, the province has to be repaired to get the full 10% upgrade every infra level gives.

Am I missing something...?

In 1.07 infra is built in 10% intervals.

 

[Titan79]

In 1.07 infra is built in 10% intervals.

Really? I recall needing to repair the province to get to full infra... maybe it was the TRM, which already made infra to be built in 5% intervals? I was playing this as well, maybe I'm mixing up things.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Really? I recall needing to repair the province to get to full infra... maybe it was the TRM, which already made infra to be built in 5% intervals? I was playing this as well, maybe I'm mixing up things.

In TRM infra is built in 10% intervals as well.

 

[Titan79]

In TRM infra is built in 10% intervals as well.

Then there must be something wrong with my install:

(before / after infra being built)

--->


This is TRM on AoD 1.07, but I guess the mod doesn't change the infra building, so it's 1.07 standard...

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Yeah, it's always been in 10% intervals. What checksums do you have on 'vanilla' 1.07 on and for TRM?

EDIT: Wait, that's right. Your install is fine, it is building in 10% intervals, just half of it needs repairing everytime which is normal.

 

[Titan79]

Yeah, it's always been in 10% intervals. What checksums do you have on 'vanilla' 1.07 on and for TRM?

EDIT: Wait, that's right. Your install is fine, it is building in 10% intervals, just half of it needs repairing everytime which is normal.

Really? I recall needing to repair the province to get to full infra...

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

o

 

[Hister]

I was also wondering why after having infrastructure built it needs to be repaired first until it gets really completed?