Unless you are dropping "without logistical thought" in a high infrastructure territory where you have a nearby port, that sounds like an excellent way to starve your troops.
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Unless you are dropping "without logistical thought" in a high infrastructure territory where you have a nearby port, that sounds like an excellent way to starve your troops.
Yes that was what happened in HOI III if we did not prepare for it (...) but because "supply" seems instant in HOI IV as long as you have a land connection to enough port capacity and/or local "supply production" for your troops it will be business as usual (regarding supply it will be as if they were in their barracks back home)
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So you redeploy an army to a well supplied area and your logisticians drink an ungodly amount of coffee figuring everything out.
Sadly coffee is not a strategic resource in the game.
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isnt that also the case in HoI3? Supply was never a problem in that game, you always had enough. Throughput was the problem and if the infrastructure etc. could deliver enough supply to what you had in the area. This isnt changing.
Oh no someone is disagreeing with me, they must be a troll!
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No it was not; if you dumped troops (off of transports ships) in a place say 150 nodes away from the supply center you risked having to wait several months for the supply/fuel to catch up with your troops (especially if that particular supply center was overseas and had more supplies/fuel than the minimum needed to allow convoys to deliver supply/fuel). I´ve lost count of the people raging with the game because their army was out of supply for months and they did not know what to do. If people understood the system they could avoid these issue most of the times (if not always).
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The whole point of this system is that if you dump 30 divisions in Ethiopia without warning, they'll be out of supply very quickly.
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When war was declared in 1939 Hitler was informed that Germany had 1 year of oil reserves (Tooze), Japan had 2 years of fuel for the fleet when the US announced the oil embargo(many sources). True, some countries, like the United States, due to isolationism, were late to forming stockpiles (sounds like a great National Decision), but even the US had identified numerous strategic resources and was attempting to stockpile them. If you can supply a source for your 30 days contention I would be pleased to read more about it.
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My one month figure was directed at the other five resources, rubber, aluminum, steel tungsten, chromium. For instance your source, Tooze, notes that Germany quickly ran into problems with steel production leading to bottlenecks in 1939 when the war disrupted their industries.
Oil is something of a special case but those stockpiles you are talking about were hardly unlimited, they were stopgaps to be used under strict rationing.
But in reality, you don't have to wait months for supplies to "catch up" in that way. They follow the troops. America doesn't start supplying its Operation Torch landing force by sending ships from Washington the day they land in Africa; preparations are made for supplying the troops at sea, immediately after landing and then during transition to a regular system. Hearts of Iron 3 ignored this altogether, Hearts of Iron 4 abstracts it into connectivity without delay. (The system doesn't really model supplies, but rather connectivity to a supply network.) Ultimately the goal in HOI3 was to be sufficiently connected to the supply network, which HOI4 wholly retains. It just does away with waiting for arbitrary and unrealistic supply flow--this would be a different discussion of the HOI3 system had any semblance to real supply flow, including use of supply dumps, etc.
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Essentially it does what HoI3 did but better. HoI3 did model the flow of ressources however as you say they reacted to what you did and were behind by a lot some of the time. This isnt the case anymore which imho is better and more realistic.
The new system doesnt have supply running in it but the actual supply running in HoI3s system didnt really matter anyway. Supply wasnt a problem, you always produced or had enough supplies stockpiled and had enough supplies going into the network. The part that mattered in the HoI3 system were throughput from source to reciever, can x-amount of division be supplied in the area they are in and that part of the equation is exactly the information the new is built to convey to the user.
The issue I described is an extreme situation that could be easily fixed for all players by allowing the convoys to deliver supplies/fuel regardless of the stockpile levels or letting the player/ai move the supply center to a more appropriate place in preparation for the operation. IMHO it is a design flaw/bug that was never fixed by the developers. Regardless of what I´ve just said the situation that I´ve described could be easily avoided by rebasing some ships (an idle transport ship flotila would do) or airplanes 1-2 months before the operation to simulate supply dumps or use temporary air bridges.
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The lag between demand for supplies and having them arrive 20 or 30 days later was the worst aspect of hoi3's supply system it made carrying out offensives a long distance from your supply base very difficult.
The real life situation is that whenever possible supplies were sent in advance of demand so they arrived when they were needed. Obviously that would be difficult to program so having instant supply simulates reality better than a supply lag. It allows us to do the kind of operations that occured in real life, without being humstrung by the supply system.
While Im posting I just want to say Im dissapointed to loose the fuel system we had in hoi3
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The HoI3 supply sytem was the best system designed for any wargame ever. It just needed a few tweeks to make it perfect. Instead you went out of your way to invent a new and totally unreal system that simulates ... nothing really. Apparently ships, tanks and stuff now don't require fuel in order to run, they just need to be "supplied". Totally ridiculous.
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The weakness of this system for a WW2 game is it do not consider the capacity of a country to: a) fabricate enough supplies; b) deliver these supplies over the world.
All that counts is the "supply limit" of the place where troops land as if they where "living off the land" as in the middle ages, renaissance or french revolution and empire (no surprise as it's EU system).
For exemple, the USA or Canada will have the same supply limit if they drop troops at X place (same distance from both countries) regardless of USA war machine being at least 10 times bigger and they fleet much more important. Projection of power capacity, a major feature of WW2, will be disregarded.
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