Werewolf CXCVII: Chopin

[madchemist]

Game wasn't as unbalanced as the result ended out. Bad luck by the baddies, good luck by the goodies combined with some excellent JL play all upset the balance of the game. My only recommendation to Wagon when I saw the setup, was to add a few more curseds in as I thought it slightly tilted in the village's favour. Wagon was wary because in a previous game of his they hit all the curseds. In this game, the wolves hit no curseds. That happens sometimes and I don't think Wagon should get too much stick for the balance. Too many traits, maybe, but that's a more personal issue.

EURO and I will probably have the game thread for the next Big set up tomorrow, unless anyone else wants it.

Hitting all three unaligned baddies with hunts and zero cursed was pretty terrible luck and certainly played a role. Still, lynching the seer, priest, and doc feels like it shouldn't end up in that much of a goodie walkover. I don't think our pack did anything really bad, besides Delta's shooting alxeu rather than Ithvan or someone of that sort.

*Shrug*

I do think that vH, Liar, Seer+starting apprentice, priest, doc, and assassin padre is a bit ridiculous when it comes to starting major goodies (almost as many as the wolves).

 

[De Chatillôn]

This. He could have started a third pack after all. And in all ways he were a wolf during the night; scans on him would return wolf and had Marshall padred Hax he would have been told johho was a wolf.

If Hax had been a cursed villager it could have been really funny.

 

[Wagonlitz]

The post about hair obscuring his vision. I think Wagon was pretty laissez-faire with allowing lie posts, but johho made a nice RP show of it, so I suppose it's alright.

I wouldn't say I was laissez-faire; but we can discuss that after the AAR. But the point of the liar is that you make claims to traits which are subtle. Not that you someway hide something like "I am a seer/wolf/priest/etc."
You are supposed to be ingenuitive in your claims and in my opinion only one of the claims was debatable and johho did make a clearer one later in the day even though I approved the first one.
So wait with your judgment until after the AAR.

I thought it was necessary to say directly: "I'm a wolf".

No. That is actually against the spirit of the trait. You are not just supposed to e.g. have the JL spokesman demand everybody claims seer. You are supposed to write some RP where you subtly claims a role/trait or in some other way subtle claim a trait/role.

 

[Gen. Marshall]

Hitting all three unaligned baddies with hunts and zero cursed was pretty terrible luck and certainly played a role. Still, lynching the seer, priest, and doc feels like it shouldn't end up in that much of a goodie walkover. I don't think our pack did anything really bad, besides Delta's shooting alxeu rather than Ithvan or someone of that sort.

*Shrug*

I do think that vH, Liar, Seer+starting apprentice, priest, doc, and assassin padre is a bit ridiculous when it comes to starting major goodies (almost as many as the wolves).

I agree, actually. I was thinking there'd be two more attached baddies due to the immense amount of important goodies.

 

[Jacksonian Missionary]

I do think that vH, Liar, Seer+starting apprentice, priest, doc, and assassin padre is a bit ridiculous when it comes to starting major goodies (almost as many as the wolves).

This. Sure the baddies had some bad luck with hunts but it seems like the goodies had a seemingly unending supply if important goodies so losing Tam wasn't nearly as bad as it first seemed.

 

[Hax]

Just like you have to set brutals. Though I guess you weren't aware of that?

Sadly no, I didn't know that.

Thank you johho for denying me the win.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Hitting all three unaligned baddies with hunts and zero cursed was pretty terrible luck and certainly played a role. Still, lynching the seer, priest, and doc feels like it shouldn't end up in that much of a goodie walkover. I don't think our pack did anything really bad, besides Delta's shooting alxeu rather than Ithvan or someone of that sort.

*Shrug*

I do think that vH, Liar, Seer+starting apprentice, priest, doc, and assassin padre is a bit ridiculous when it comes to starting major goodies (almost as many as the wolves).

The JL did a really really great job and was really lucky in its scans. With a little less luck to the JL and johho not doing that fabulous liar run and the baddies would have been really close to victory.
It really was a case of everything coming together perfectly for the goodies and you can't plan for that.

If Hax had been a cursed villager it could have been really funny.

Especially if aedan hadn't been shot either.

 

[Wagonlitz]

This. Sure the baddies had some bad luck with hunts but it seems like the goodies had a seemingly unending supply if important goodies so losing Tam wasn't nearly as bad as it first seemed.

Seer's starting apprentice is the only doubtful thing. And the sole reason I gave him that was due to all the flak I got from e.g. you after Oliver Twist where the baddies got really lucky.
The liar wasn't expected to do so well at all; and he isn't a major goodie.

 

[Dr.Livingstone]

GG to the all involved! I am shocked that I came out alive, that I won, and that I, in some very small part, helped out in the end. It was an amazing JL, and I think those involved deserve special praise!

 

[aedan777]

In hindsight, I shouldn't have made Ithvan/gorgan my sole JL contact. Had I been in contact with more, maybe the shot would've been avoided.

 

[madchemist]

The liar wasn't expected to do so well at all; and he isn't a major goodie.

Uh, the liar is one of the most overpowered roles in the hands of a skilled player (as I proved in your last game, and has been proven several times in others). It's basically a second scanner, an assassin, and a couple other things too. The liar is a major goodie by any reasonable definition.

 

[Wagonlitz]

In hindsight, I shouldn't have made Ithvan/gorgan my sole JL contact. Had I been in contact with more, maybe the shot would've been avoided.

Indeed. The main argument for shooting you was that 1) you weren't scanned and 2) hadn't contacted the JL.

Uh, the liar is one of the most overpowered roles in the hands of a skilled player (as I proved in your last game, and has been proven several times in others). It's basically a second scanner, an assassin, and a couple other things too. The liar is a major goodie by any reasonable definition.

It is also expected to die fast.

 

[al-Aziz]

It was random you got the OEO council member; but yes I likes the irony.

It's not really ironic, though.

I definitely think I should have done better. Oh well.

I fully expected the wolves to contact the JL, so it surprises me that apparently aedan didn't?

Lemeard's November Big was the one where none of the baddies contacted the JL, I think.

 

[aedan777]

Indeed. The main argument for shooting you was that 1) you weren't scanned and 2) hadn't contacted the JL.

Well I'd contacted Ithvan days before he subbed out, and possibly even before Johho was in the JL. So I figured he'd passed it on, and the JL just didn't care about my infiltrator scan.

 

[aedan777]

I fully expected the wolves to contact the JL, so it surprises me that apparently aedan didn't?

Lemeard's November Big was the one where none of the baddies contacted the JL, I think.

I'm well aware of the dangers of not contacting the JL, so I did contact Ithvan fairly early on. He gave me the information about my rivalry with Hazbot being part of a chain with Sleepyhead. But apparently he never bothered to tell anyone else about my contact, so the JL thought I never contacted them. I messaged gorgan after he subbed in, but guess he wasn't in the loop for deciding to shoot me.

 

[daird]

So, what I'm wondering is where I went wrong, per se.

 

[madchemist]

So, what I'm wondering is where I went wrong, per se.

I thought you were fine. You had the misfortune of not being on the cleared goodies list in a game where that list was really huge and the cleared goodies had enormous clout in determining the lynch (and lots of killing power in reserve besides).

 

[aedan777]

So, what I'm wondering is where I went wrong, per se.

You didn't vote enough baddies, and more specifically ended up voting the wrong type of baddies when you did. And claimed a trait that fit well with what the JL thought it was looking for. I made efforts to help the process along, but not sure how much that matter. Sometimes players die without having done anything in particular wrong.

 

[al-Aziz]

I'm well aware of the dangers of not contacting the JL, so I did contact Ithvan fairly early on. He gave me the information about my rivalry with Hazbot being part of a chain with Sleepyhead. But apparently he never bothered to tell anyone else about my contact, so the JL thought I never contacted them. I messaged gorgan after he subbed in, but guess he wasn't in the loop for deciding to shoot me.

Aww, too bad. That's unfortunate.

So, what I'm wondering is where I went wrong, per se.

Hmm. It's hard to say. Your voting records were less than stellar, but I don't think there was any way you could easily "correct" that.

You could defend yourself more vigorously and obsessively, like how I did. That seems to work, sometimes.

 

[Dr.Livingstone]

Things that I learned:
1. Trying to calculate probabilities is useless
2. Never tell any supposed JL spokesperson your roll unless you are 100% sure they come from JL
3. I really suck at WW
4. COUNCIL ANALYSIS DOESN'T WORK

I'm well aware of the dangers of not contacting the JL, so I did contact Ithvan fairly early on. He gave me the information about my rivalry with Hazbot being part of a chain with Sleepyhead. But apparently he never bothered to tell anyone else about my contact, so the JL thought I never contacted them. I messaged gorgan after he subbed in, but guess he wasn't in the loop for deciding to shoot me.

The shooting you thing was really well kept. The council thought of trying to shoot Ike, but sleepy decided to talk us out of it and go for you, apparently because you weren't scanned. I think only Sleepy, JM, me, and Johho were in the loop about that, and it was only decided like two hours before deadline.