EU4 - Development Diary - 23rd of June 2016

[Dakka]

@Johan Please change Ottomans' map colour in the next patch. It's not true colour.

I'd rather see Prussia blue than ottomans change color

 

[Hodbin Hood]

I think it can be dark green. Like this:

But Ottomans' historical colour is this green:

 

[MoreHistory]

YES! Features!

 

[Wagonlitz]

I expect that a thousand-year Empire, and one of the most influential states of the Middle Ages (and the one whose fall demarcates the end of that age), get proper representation in an historical game about Early Modern Europe. The Fall of Constantinople was a hugely significant event, but this game doesn't give you a sense of why it is so significant. It's because the Byzantine faction isn't represented right. It's pathetically downplayed, giving you no understanding of its importance. It simply continues the tired trend in generalized historical education of not explaining who the Byzantines really were, promoting a centuries-old bias that is hugely ignorant and outdated.

Not even having the correct regnal numbers for several pretty prominent Imperial names is a joke (do you see many other factions with Imperial lines that stretch back 1000 years, unbroken? Didn't think so). Not having events that tell you about the Empire's hugely important past is a joke. Modern Europe wouldn't have existed as we know it without Byzantium. For most of its history, it was THE Empire to which all other Empires measured themselves. Even in its twilight years, its leaders and scholars still were received with great respect by the courts of Western Europe, despite the fact that their Empire was dying. Heck, the title of Byzantine Emperor still garnered respect, and a significant price nearly a century after the Empire no longer existed. The loss of Constantinople was often described as "the greatest loss for Christendom", with many clamoring for a Crusade, even when all the others failed. The taking of Constantinople by the Turks was prophetic for Islam too, because the fall of Rum is mentioned in hadith, and Mehmed used that knowledge to legitimize the Ottoman claim to the title of Caliph. So, not at all insignificant.

And again, I don't know why you keep going off about adding things. Did I not say that things don't need to be added? Simply adjusting existing things to make them more historically aware would do wonders for the DLC. Adding a few small things would be nice (like the events I mentioned, which do not significantly alter the game, but at least provide some interesting historically-based events), but these are not necessary. I feel, as usual, you're not listening at all to what I'm saying, which is a common theme it seems. I don't get why people are so resistant to fixing this one (hugely important) faction in a game called Europa Universalis, yet are all on the bandwagon for adding content to far less significant ones. There is a massive double standard when it comes to discussing any adjustment to Byzantium as well -- let me guess "they only exist 11 years into the start of the game, so they don't need to be represented right"? Rebuttal: Purple Phoenix DLC exists to allow you to play as Byzantium for potentially far longer than 11 years. And Byzantium is survivable for experienced players. And probably a quarter of the factions in the game either don't exist at the beginning or last only a short amount of time. And somehow those are more deserving, despite not having a thousand years of hugely influential history backing them? Please.

As I see it, there is no argument you can make that is logically consistent and valid in this regard, because you are purposely ignoring and unwilling to listen to the historical precedents.

Bottom line: Byzantium is poorly represented for such a rich and historically important faction and could do with a decent revamp. Fix the units, fix the names, give it some historical flair. Events should talk about Theodosius "building these strong walls", Basil II holding mass at the Acropolis in Athens, John II Komnenos triumphantly marching into Antioch, Greek Fire terrifying enemies in days past. Tell us about the story. Not something as mundane and trivial as "the Empire runs on paper". Plus, the Byzantines are the historical and very ancient rivals of the Turks, the Caliphate, and Islam in general, it's only fair to give them a little love when you're just piling on the additions to the Ottomans. I rest my case.

P.S. my offer also still stands, "Empire of Angels" already has most of the work done for you.

Sounds reasonable.
You can always make a thread in the suggestions forum where you code the events themselves (or at least write the text) and then tag trin tragula.

 

[seriousgigi]

Meh, to me it would look really weird, especially if Timmies managed to survive. Green fits the Ottomans pretty well, can't imagine such aggressive colour conquering everything left and right.

But hey, to each his own, this option would let us fix every colour we want *cough* Prussia *cough*

timmies are not first tier country but ottomans are. ottomans' color should have been red from the beginning.

 

[DominusNovus]

What would happen if a government has elections and harems?

 

[Dragunov101]

A question, the abdication will have effects on succession, inheritances and personal Union?

 

[PandaL]

Well, the more I do think about it, the less I feel like a Harem mechanic would actually fit in with the Daimyo. Sure, they had harems, but it was the norm for the eldest son to succeed regardless. Yoshiaki Otomo trying to disinherit Yoshishige (Sorin) Otomo resulted in the Second Floor incident where pro-Yoshishige retainers killed him, Takamoto Mori's death resulted in Terumoto being appointed as nominal clan head and Motonari coming out of retirement, Yoshihisa Amago succeeded Haruhisa Amago (and promptly brought ruin on the clan) despite both his brothers being inifinitely more competent and having more respect, Nobutada Oda's death during Honnoji effectively opened the door for Hideyoshi to puppet the Oda, and Ieyasu had to kill Nobuyasu before he could declare Hidetada heir.

Basically, I don't think that choosing heirs in the sense that its represented in with the Ottoman's harem mechanic would make sense, as trying to disinherit the eldest son or his unexpected death tended to throw clans into chaos since it was the norm to have the eldest son succeed to clan leadership (while it was not uncommon for younger ones to be offered up for adoption) regardless of the circumstances, and incompetent ones were usually overthrown by kin only after they ruled for a while - which also tended to split the clan.

Yes, in East Asia, the standard was often eldest son as the first heir. Qing was the an exception though. The emperor decided who the heir was, some announced it early, some written it down and hidden it until he died.

However, none of the dynastic nation should have their ruling family changed without a tag change I think.

(PS: I deleted a not so well thought out idea)

 

[Canute VII]

So abdication is by default 'bad'? Charles V abdicating in favour of his son Philips II didn't shake the foundations of the dynasty. So that's a bit weird. I guess it is hard to distinguish game-wise between a regular and a more forced abdication Still, interesting feature.

Why not scale the effects from abdication with ruler age? If ruler abdicates at age 14 (provided he's already got a heir), he will suffer -50 prestige/-20 legitimacy, if he abdicates at 70 I believe on grounds of bad health there is reason enough so he suffers 0 prestige/0 legitimacy. If ruler is age 40, he will suffer a hit interpolated in between those poles, eg (without exact calculus) -25 prestige/-10 legitimacy...

 

[Eagleking]

Well, with England I, at one stage had a 17 year old ruler and a 16 year old heir, both called Cecily, and I could abdicate, which doesn't make much sense. Therefore it will be good to require that the ruler has been on the throne for 25 years before abdication is allowed (or reached the age of 60, whichever comes first in my opinion). It also seems to me there are too many women rulers/heirs. It is quite alright that there are some but I think the chances of getting a female heir seem too high at the moment.

Kings would normally favour a male heir and only occasionally would a woman rule. Now it seems 50-50 for male and female and I think 90% chance of a male heir would reflect the times better, taking in to account that a king would virtually always favour his oldest son as heir and forego the older sisters, unless there was no male heir.

I think the same when a King adopts an heir. Too often I have adopted an heir and it is a girl. A medieval/renaissance Ruler/King would almost certainly only adopt a boy to take over the throne so here I think for adoptions there should be a 95% chance of a male. It would also make sense to say the ruler cannot adopt until the age of 30, because the ruler would try to get their own natural offspring until that age at least.

 

[Find A Job]

Please tell me there will be an AE/Coalition rework. It is the only irritant to any Ottoman game. 30 European states led by Austria declaring war on you...

 

[Bella Gerant]

Please tell me there will be an AE/Coalition rework. It is the only irritant to any Ottoman game. 30 European states led by Austria declaring war on you...

You mean like the Crusade of Nicopolis. Or the Crusade of Varna. Or the Ottoman Wars.

Also, weren't the Girays of the Crimea Khanate considered the successors to the Osman dynasty?

 

[Woifee]

The turkish culture is completely incompatible with democracy. They have a massive negative yearly RT modifier that practically guarantees they fall into a republican dictatorship fairly quickly like IRL.

Cultures can and will change.

There was a time Germans said, that Germans are not made for democracy.

 

[Dragunov101]

England should be able to generate an Anglican religion, because it is different from Catholicism and Protestantism.

 

[CrisisCauser]

Why not scale the effects from abdication with ruler age? If ruler abdicates at age 14 (provided he's already got a heir), he will suffer -50 prestige/-20 legitimacy, if he abdicates at 70 I believe on grounds of bad health there is reason enough so he suffers 0 prestige/0 legitimacy. If ruler is age 40, he will suffer a hit interpolated in between those poles, eg (without exact calculus) -25 prestige/-10 legitimacy...

Makes sense. Scaling from no penalty at an old age, perhaps 70 as you said, to more penalty the younger the ruler seems logical.

 

[Sikker]

Austria rightfully belongs to Denmark! I demand that France instantly steps down from their ridiculous claims.

 

[Grand Historian]

Cultures can and will change.

There was a time Germans said, that Germans are not made for democracy.

Quote removed
click report: don't quote garbage posts- had a dad

Since when did this turn into the OT forum?

Makes sense. Scaling from no penalty at an old age, perhaps 70 as you said, to more penalty the younger the ruler seems logical.

Indeed. Charles' V abdication resulted in no crisis for Philip II - his health was failing and the transfer was a smooth one. Granted, it's not the same as age, but rulers that are not in as good health (which can be construed as age barring an actual health value being added to EU4) generally had a better time of abdicating than healthy and young ones.

 

[DominusNovus]

Since when did this turn into the OT forum?

Thank you. I just wanted to ask about modding what would happen if you made a government with those traits. And I got... less than helpful replies.

 

[Grand Historian]

Thank you. I just wanted to ask about modding what would happen if you made a government with those traits. And I got... less than helpful replies.

You're welcome. And, personally, I imagine it would probably cause a crash at worst or a dys/non-functional government at best since they would have conflicting priorities. Granted, it's not out yet, so that's just purely speculation on my part.

 

[Emre Yigit]

Also, weren't the Girays of the Crimea Khanate considered the successors to the Osman dynasty?

In the unlikely event of the Ottoman dynasty dying out, they were the obvious choice.