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EU4 - Development Diary - 14th of February 2017

Hello everyone and welcome to another development diary for Europa Universalis IV.

Today we’ll take a deep look at two new mechanics that are present when you play the Ashikaga Shogunate in next expansion, and also how the setup have changed.

Now you may wonder, where is Japan? Well, at the start of the game, there is no unified nation of Japan, and instead we have a Shogunate with Daimyo vassals.

If Ashikaga loses Kyoto, then they lose the Shogunate, and the Daimyo that conquers it, becomes the new Shogun.

Any nation that is a Daimyo, but is no longer a subject to the Shogun, will become an Independent Daimyo, a government form, that allows you to become an Empire.

Japan can be formed if you are the Shogun, and have at least 25 cities, or there are no daimyos left. A Daimyo can also form Japan if they are independent and there is no other daimyos around.

The first feature is mechanics tied to the Shogunate government form.

Each daimyo at peace reduces stability cost at 2% each to a maximum of 20% cheaper, and 0.1 yearly legitimacy up to a maximum of +1 yearly legitimacy.

There is a yearly prestige impact ranging from -1 to +1 depending on how isolated daimyos are compared to the Shogunate. We’ll talk more about isolationism when we discuss the Shintoism mechanics.

The Shogunate government itself lost the bonus to diplomatic relations, and instead gained a bonus diplomat. However, Daimyos no longer cost diplomatic upkeep.

Shogunates also have 3 abilities they can use from the government screen, for a mere cost of 20 legitimacy.

  • Sword Hunt - reduces manpower and force-limits of all Daimyo subjects, while increasing the Shogun's manpower and force-limit.
  • Sankin Kotai – Reduced diplomatic relation slots of all Daimyo subjects by 1 and increases Shogun's diplomatic reputation by 3.
  • Forcibly expel Ronin – Lower all subject's liberty desire by 5%
eu4_16.png


Secondly, there are also five new subject interactions for a Shogunate to use on their Daimyo Vassals, all who require them to have a liberty desire of less than 50%.

  • Force Seppuku - Current ruler in Daimyo dies, They will not start a war for the next ruler. (AI only) Can be done if the ruler have started a war with another daimyo. Shogun gains 5 x new rulers monarch power.
  • “Return Land” - On Daimyos that have an independent nation’s cores, force them to return that core.
  • Contribute to Capital - Gain 1 development in your capital, they lose 2 development in their lands. Can be done if they have more than 33% development of the Shogunate lands.
  • Conscript General- The Daimyo’s highest-pip general will be transferred to the overlord for +30 Liberty Desire. Blocked for heir and monarch generals.
  • Force isolation up/down - towards shogunate, increases LD by 25%.
eu4_17.png



Stay tuned for next week, when we’ll talk about how the tributary system will work...
 
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What about adding one more option to the government screen like demanding trade power? Where the trade power of your Daimyo's decreases slightly and yours gets a medium sized boost.
 
If they could develop Shinto with a system of Purity/Impurity and implement a concept of shrines and rituals it will be awesome. Add Zen and Christian syncretisms and we'll have a fairly good representation of the Japanese Sengoku and Edo periods.
 
I like this a lot - it looks like Grand Historian's detailed Japan proposal is making its way into the game. I'm curious why the civil war part (where non aligned daimyos collectively challenge the shogun when it looks like one of them is getting close to unifying japan) didn't make it in though.
 
Japan will be a whole other experience with all of these additions!
 
Guess my next game will be a Japan run. Need to decide if I should play a daimyo or the shogun.
 
Well, I'm really looking forward to this DLC/Patch now. Though, and while I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, having Isolationism as a Shinto mechanic... it's not very, well, religious, is it? Especially as Japan wasn't the only isolationist country in East Asia back then. I mean, I still love the idea of representing it as a mechanic, but it seems it'd be something better to attach to a Daimyo Gov. Type than making it Shinto's religious mechanic.

Homusubi said:
Although I'm glad to hear that Shinto is getting a rework and that the shogunate is now tied to Kyoto rather than the entirety of the 1444 Ashikaga lands, I am concerned that you're giving the Ashikaga way too much power. The Shogunate could not, realistically, have enforced some of those orders until at least the Hideyoshi days.

Plus, the "return unlawful territory" thing makes the HRE a lot more irritating and is very un-Sengoku-ish (do you really think that the bloody Ashikaga could have intervened in the Sengoku period and forced the Takeda to give up Shinano, for example?!). At least it only applies to cores of daimyo which still have territory.

The goal should have been to make sure that most games end without Ashikaga dominance, not with it!
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This.

hashinshin said:
The contribute to Capital interaction seems like it would be a real drain on Japan's development, when Japan is supposed to come out of the EU4 time period on a population boom
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hashinshin said:
Point is, Japan should be leaving the EU4 time period with a lot of development, not draining it over the timespan.
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Population =/= Development. If anything, the major cities became overcrowded during the Edo period; Edo was leveled every few decades or so by fire because the wooden buildings that made up the city were packed so insanely close together, often with casualties in the tens of thousands.

And the Tokugawa wrecked Japan's economy, and I'd even say reduced the quality of life there from what it was in the Sengoku period. Samurai being able to kill commoners and merchants on mere whims does not form the basis for a well-developed country.

That said, I agree the capital interaction isn't the best.
 
Grand Historian said:
This.
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I'm glad to hear we have a united front here!

Grand Historian said:
Population =/= Development. If anything, the major cities became overcrowded during the Edo period; Edo was leveled every few decades or so by fire because the wooden buildings that made up the city were packed so insanely close together, often with casualties in the tens of thousands.

And the Tokugawa wrecked Japan's economy, and I'd even say reduced the quality of life there from what it was in the Sengoku period. Samurai being able to kill commoners and merchants on mere whims does not form the basis for a well-developed country.
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Hmm... I'm not so sure, at least when it comes to chonin (it seems that the rural peasants had it pretty damn badly whatever the period). Samurai probably killed quite a few commoners without a legal motive during the Sengoku period as well. And there are quite a few things that people exaggerate about the Edo period in general. For example, commoners could, and did, travel (afaik they used pilgrimages as an excuse but weren't exactly religious most of the time). Also, the literacy rate skyrocketed and books became a lot more readily available. It wasn't that uncommon, in fact, for commoners to end up better off than some low-ranking samurai. As for "wrecking the economy", the Osaka rice exchange ended up looking a hell of a lot like modern capitalism. I'm not saying that would make the economy any better (there's an argument, I guess, that fewer restrictions on the economy ended up hurting everyone other than the Osaka merchant cartels), but it wasn't stagnant.

Another thing (this has nothing to do with GH but it's a reply to the thread in general): please, for the love of god/s, stop assuming that everyone has Common Sense! I'm hearing a lot of development-related stuff and people seem to be forgetting it's a paid feature and not one that everyone likes to have enabled. The same applies to Paradox: one of those shogunate actions might permanently cripple provincial Japan in non-CS games.
 
Is there any chance the Shogun could create new daimyo? Get a subject, force them to change religion and culture, then force them into the Daimyo government form?
 
Homusubi said:
Hmm... I'm not so sure, at least when it comes to chonin (it seems that the rural peasants had it pretty damn badly whatever the period). Samurai probably killed quite a few commoners without a legal motive during the Sengoku period as well.
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Undoubtedly, but the issue is that it was not only legal in the Edo period, but actually sanctioned. That was a first - I can't think of any house codes off the top of my head that sanctioned murdering citizens if they so much as slighted you.

As for "wrecking the economy", the Osaka rice exchange ended up looking a hell of a lot like modern capitalism. I'm not saying that would make the economy any better (there's an argument, I guess, that fewer restrictions on the economy ended up hurting everyone other than the Osaka merchant cartels), but it wasn't stagnant.
Click to expand...

The issue, however, is that Osaka - excepting perhaps Satsuma - seemed to be the only ones to actually benefit. During the Sengoku there were dozens of major trading cities throughout Japan, and the Tokugawa basically gutted them and their economical growth. Taxes in the domains were also far worse than they had been during the Sengoku because of Sankin-Kotai; the Mori's taxes on the four whites only happened after Sekigahara, after all. Then there's also the Tokugawa freezing the social mobility that the Sengoku had brought with it and reinforcing the idea that merchants were worse than peasants (compare previously to the height of the Toyotomi administration, where merchants-turned-samurai like Yukinaga Konishi and Sen Rikyu held some of the highest positions [even Kanbei Kuroda's family had a mercantile background, though they were samurai by the time he was born]); travelling and literary peasants is all well and good but it won't do much if they couldn't actually use those to benefit or advance themselves.
 
It would be interesting if there was some sort of Emperor mechanic similar to that of the Holy See. Good behavior, loyalty, and piety to Shintoism would allow you to ask for benefits that could help tip the balance against other Daimyos.
 
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