Issues with AI Germany is why Germany loses the war in 1941.

[Dalwin]

As to Japan vs China. In my current game as Germany I set the slider balance as follows: SOV/FRA +3, US/UK +2, JAP/ITA +1. With one notch of advantage, Japan handily overran China and puppeted or annexed the region. I did see one odd thing that I had not before. There were separate puppets for Xibei San Ma and Guangxi. The latter is probably a mistake considering resources.

 

[MadDjinn]

For Japan, in my recent game, they got booted from mainland china pretty easily (after some repels of the invasions), but that was partly due to the mass support china got. 8 divisions to China and a few more to Communist China and all of a sudden the Soviets are fielding about 1/2 an army group there. Top that with Germany support for China and Japan is actually fighting the Soviets and Germans more than the Chinese.

It's only in this patch that I noticed the Soviets sending 8 divisions over; mainly due to the 8 divisions of the Soviets causing more WT than the actual war declaration.

 

[Dalwin]

For Japan, in my recent game, they got booted from mainland china pretty easily (after some repels of the invasions), but that was partly due to the mass support china got. 8 divisions to China and a few more to Communist China and all of a sudden the Soviets are fielding about 1/2 an army group there. Top that with Germany support for China and Japan is actually fighting the Soviets and Germans more than the Chinese.

It's only in this patch that I noticed the Soviets sending 8 divisions over; mainly due to the 8 divisions of the Soviets causing more WT than the actual war declaration.

I would still like to see a startup option which forbids use of volunteers everywhere but the SCW.

 

[MadDjinn]

I'd like to see volunteers not cause more WT than the actual wars. It's a little silly atm.

but that's a different topic (along with Germany not choosing to send volunteers to China if they choose to befriend Japan in the focus).

 

[Meglok]

As to Japan vs China. In my current game as Germany I set the slider balance as follows: SOV/FRA +3, US/UK +2, JAP/ITA +1. With one notch of advantage, Japan handily overran China and puppeted or annexed the region. I did see one odd thing that I had not before. There were separate puppets for Xibei San Ma and Guangxi. The latter is probably a mistake considering resources.

That might be. but sliders turn off achievements iirc. Some people care about those. That is why I was looking at Japan in pure vanilla.

 

[pdstanbridge]

I've played two games since the new patch and it is apparent there is something fundamentally wrong.

In my first, as Italy, I decided to closely shadow Germany, and have had the best HOI experience. I am certain this is only due to the fact I helped significantly in the SU and forced them to capitulate in 1944. I was also fighting in Spain, France and Africa at the same time. I noted that Germany had sent a large number of divisions through Africa. If I wasn't helping on the Eastern front I'm pretty sure Germany would have been toast by 1941.

My second game today, as Fascist Turkey. Germany capitulates by June 1941! I have honestly never seen anything like it. Germany couildn't cope with the Soviet numbers.

Although only two games with the new patch it is pretty obvious that unless the German AI gets a human 'boost' in some shape of form the game is over pretty much straight away.
One other point of interest, which may be correlated. Japan is more or less wiped out in the first campaign. In the second, they defeat China by 1939! Again, I've never seen anything as rapid.

 

[MadDjinn]

Although only two games with the new patch it is pretty obvious that unless the German AI gets a human 'boost' in some shape of form the game is over pretty much straight away.
One other point of interest, which may be correlated. Japan is more or less wiped out in the first campaign. In the second, they defeat China by 1939! Again, I've never seen anything as rapid.

if the Soviets and Germans are tossed into a war, they can't send volunteers. Therefore Japan is only fighting easily overwhelmed Chinese troops.

 

[Meglok]

Continuing the passive Haiti game, it is now Sept 25 1939. I have been saving about every 3 months or so.

Japan is still battling in China, and has managed to grab the coast but has stalled. The lack of steel has been crippling, even though Japan finally demanded steel from it's Manchuko puppet. It has never been able to climb out of it's starting production deficits and is now running deficits in InEq also. It has added to it's production problems by changing it's inf template to one requiring an AT and ART company in addition to 2 ART battalions. I understand this is coming from the use of generic template coding, but if there is any major that doesn't need and can't support AT and lots of ART it is ai JAP.

Germany declared war on Poland on Aug 24 and is still stalled. Irregardless of this, Germany declared war on LUX on Sept 20, HOL on Sept 21. and BEL on Sept 22. With WT now at 63%, JAP joined the Axis on Sept 23. On Sept 24, you guessed it, JAP joined the German-Polish war.

Despite being stalled in China, having absolutely no divisions ready to fight elsewhere, no marines built or in production, and a woefully under-developed navy, Japan is now at war with the Allies. This is truly either a /facepalm or a WTF moment considering the changes in 1.3.3.

 

[sturnado]

Reading all this makes me want to uninstall the game and walk away from Paradox products.

I feel like if there was any competition for the grand strategy genre, Paradox would be in serious trouble. HoI4 and Stellaris were my first purchases from this company, followed by EU4, and from what I've been told all their games are in horrible shape at the start and it takes years of patches and paid DLC before said game is in decent shape. Call me an idealist, but things shouldn't work that way, and from reading these forums I gather many of you are okay with that.

HoI4 is in rough shape, and it's been that way since launch with only marginal improvements to be seen. The AI is still abysmal, and players' ability to cheat in multi-player games still hasn't been addressed. Meanwhile, Paradox is working on more paid DLC for this game after having already released paid DLC for this game... how about fixing the base game first? How hard could it be to prevent cheating in multi-player? I mean, wouldn't that be the right thing to do in this instance, fix the base game and then invest your resources into creating additional content, i.e. build a great foundation first, then build up.

This is the type of behavior I would expect from Ubisoft or EA, not a primarily niche strategy game company.

The worst part of this all is that you (Paradox) have a very fun game at the core here. I've put in about 700 hours, almost all of it in multi-player matches, playing HoI4. Did I get my money's worth? Yes, I absolutely did. Do I have any desire to continue playing this game? I absolutely do not, not until some actual improvements are made, and I'm not talking some bandaid fixes locked behind a paywall either.

That's my two cents anyways.

 

[Meglok]

Continuing the Haitian play, Nov 15 1939, Germany might well get away with a 2 front war in 1939. The UK's response to war?

36 of it's 71 divisions conquering Africa. And in France?

Well, there are 10 divisions there....., but they are locked in a 70 day invasion plan to hit the beaches inside the Baltic around Stettin. Since there are 16 days left in planning it is a race before Poland falls. This of course completely ignores the historical plausibility of the UK even mounting an invasion inside the Baltic in 1939, much less supplying troops once ashore. Here it doesn't matter because the Kriegsmarine has already suicided. It is down to 3 surface ships and 16 submarines who are busy dying to the RN inside the Baltic and there is no Luftwaffe in the Baltic.

Not a single UK or commonwealth division fighting in France. The remaining 25 divisions are sitting at home garrisoning Great Britain.

 

[Meglok]

Jan 1940 in Haitian passive. France fell on xmas eve, Poland has just fallen in mid Jan.

BEL and HOL are still holding out but the end is near. The UK is somewhat helping. They are however following up their suicidal invasion of Stettin which is about to cost it 10 divisions by plotting one for 56 days from Rotterdam to Wilhelmshaven. Yep, a 6 province hop tying up 7 divisions for 2 months while HOL fights for it's life. It seems with 1.3.3 we are back to the Allies plotting idiotic and often suicidal invasions.

Meanwhile, in Africa....

Italy has landed 33 divisions in Libya, who should have smooth sailing into Cairo since the UK has abandoned Egypt. But it has 28 divisions assigned to East Africa and by damn they are going to capture Italian Somaliland. Not pictured, the first German divisions have landed in Vichy Tunis. African appears to be back to a huge battleground.

I just can't anymore. A human player would crush an ai making these basic mistakes. It isn't even worth loading up a vanilla game. Maybe like @Dalwin suggested, sliders or maybe mods like Expert AI would help with the production and template issues in 1.3.3. But we are still back to Africa uber alles and Allied kamikaze invasions, not to mention Axis allies not fighting sometimes, Japan joining the European war again in 1939, etc etc. Hopefully there will be a hot fix for these issues soon. Otherwise it will be a long long wait for 1.4.

 

[Pro_Consul]

Ah, man. And after reading the patch notes the other day I was all fired up to get back into HOI after a several month long enforced hiatus. It seems really strange how Germany seems to be doing a textbook historical invasion of France, but the moment Barbarossa fires they turn into brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Robin. Bravely they are throwing in the sponge....

I am not so upset about Japan's ongoing issues, as I was pretty much already resigned to waiting for a new DLC to fix the entire Pacific theater. But to see AI Germany still self-destructing, plus the seeming re-emergence of the supermassive black hole in Africa. Bleh.

On the plus side, I just learned of a new Star Trek overhaul mod for Stellaris, so I have something to occupy me while I wait, hopefully, for 1.3.4...or less hopefully for 1.4.

 

[Dalwin]

@Meglok, I don't think the AI ever stopped plotting those unwise invasions. We simply had a version or so when we didn't notice them because they were getting zeroed out on convoys. The same problem that would get troops stuck at sea during transport would almost certainly stop invasions from even leaving port.

Ah, man. And after reading the patch notes the other day I was all fired up to get back into HOI after a several month long enforced hiatus. It seems really strange how Germany seems to be doing a textbook historical invasion of France, but the moment Barbarossa fires they turn into brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Robin. Bravely they are throwing in the sponge....

I am not so upset about Japan's ongoing issues, as I was pretty much already resigned to waiting for a new DLC to fix the entire Pacific theater. But to see AI Germany still self-destructing, plus the seeming re-emergence of the supermassive black hole in Africa. Bleh.

On the plus side, I just learned of a new Star Trek overhaul mod for Stellaris, so I have something to occupy me while I wait, hopefully, for 1.3.4...or less hopefully for 1.4.

Some of the improvements are very good, but given the content of this thread and a few others, I think you best bet to enjoy the game is to play either Germany (or someone in a position to help them) or to play MP games. My current game as Germany which put some high slider bonuses on my enemies and in which I imposed a self restriction to only start wars via NF is turning out to be quite enjoyable.

As far as the PTO, I played one game as Japan and the Pacific part of it was much better now that the AI does a better job of controlling its fleets. That game fell apart when Germany surrendered in mid '42. I may try Japan again soon and give the Americans and Chinese each +2 this time instead of only +1 and give Germany +3 just to see if they can live longer.

 

[Broletariat90]

I'm still running into the problem of Germany declaring war on Belgium, Luxembourg , the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway before they can even finish off Poland. Has anyone just completely lost any form of patience for this game? I really didn't think I'd see this issue anymore with 1.3.3

 

[Gwydion5]

Did an Ironman game today as Germany, Regular Difficulty, Historical Focus and I other than Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, it was mostly historical. Went to war with Russia March 21st of 1941. I am by no means an expert at HOI4. I would say Russia is putting up more of a fight than I'm used to, but should easily fall by 1942, probably 1941 if I take the time to micro.

I'm not sure what this means though in terms of Soviets being buffed, or AI Germany Economy weakness, or AI Germany just not managing it's fronts/battleplan properly. But a human player Germany shouldn't have too much trouble with Russia.

Also I have not called my allies in to the war with Russia, nor have I accepted (I don't think I've been offered?) expeditionary forces. I did not call my allies in to war with the Allies until Italy declared war on Greece, then I did. Italy has been doing decent, Greece was conquered quickly, and Africa is looking pretty good.

 

[AOW]

To what do you attribute your success in USSR? Infantry templates? Control of the skies? Armor + encirclements? Just curious. i am also wondering how the Soviet AI is doing with its production.

 

[Gwydion5]

To what do you attribute your success in USSR? Infantry templates? Control of the skies? Armor + encirclements? Just curious. i am also wondering how the Soviet AI is doing with its production.

Hmmm I would probably say economy and tech. I passed on doing Rhineland until like 38, Instead I went down Reichsautobahn line to Industrial II, then Air Innovations to Extra Research Slot, then Army innovations down to Army Innovations 2. Then I focused on Rhineland, Anschluss, Fate of Czech, etc... I did Free Trade for my first PP, Schacht for my 2nd, Bormann for my third, Gunderian for my 4th. I produced CIC's only in provinces that had 10 infrastructure, and built infrastructure up to 10 in provinces that had the most available industry slots, throwing in a refinery here and there as needed, but really I was holding back till I had dispersed industry 2 before ramping up refineries. I focused on CAS as my primary air power. Built light cruisers and destroyers for navy, with emphasis on light cruisers and kept them in the Baltic Sea. I did not switch off Free Trade until Danzig or War, choosing closed economy.

Infantry builds are pretty much stock. My medium armor divisions are 3 medium tanks, 5 mechanized with engineers for support. I just added tier 2 MSPA to the medium armor divisions. I did try using the spearhead battleplan in this game, but it doesn't work very well with my 9 MARM division armies. The divisions like to attack adjacent provinces, rather than thrusting forward, so I've been microing encirclement some with them. I wouldn't say my Air Power is anything special, I have little in terms of fighters, mostly CAS and even then maybe 1k of them total, I think I have about 700 or so operating in Russia, probably another 300 of TAC, and then 300 fighters.

I'll attach the game if you want to take a peek. But division design is not my expertise, so expect to be disappointed.

 

[Dalwin]

I recommend giving Russia +3 on the slider. I like to boost some of the other nations as well but the boost to Russia is the primary concern.

 

[AOW]

I'll attach the game if you want to take a peek. But division design is not my expertise, so expect to be disappointed.

Exactly what i was looking for and then some! Thank you very much for the well thought out reply. I will try to incorporate some of your ideas into my next game as GER. Cheers.

 

[Gwydion5]

I recommend giving Russia +3 on the slider. I like to boost some of the other nations as well but the boost to Russia is the primary concern.

Yeah, a few posts back I asked if anyone had tried playing Germany in a normal game just to see if Russia was just that much better with 1.3.3. Because for me all of my AI Germany games have failed against Russia. So that's why I wanted to try it myself, and I only picked regular non boosted difficulty for the purpose of a baseline. If Russia rolled me or my invasion was problematic, I didn't want the boost to be responsible. This also helps establish that AI Russia did not become OP in this patch, and points to AI Germany being the problem.

Not that I think there is much debate about that. But every example helps I figure.