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Sounds like a Unicorn. So I hope it isn't in the game.
 
The Pershing wasn't deployed until 1945, and was by no means even remotely ready for the Normandy operation in '44. Please no more fantasy units. I would much rather see the Jumbo and Easy Eight, which were deployed in this game's setting.
 
We may see the basic T26/M26 if we expand into 1945, but otherwise no M26 of any kind. The US received the M36 Jackson in Europe in September/October 1944. September 1944 marks the beginning of Operation Market Garden, which means no M36 Gun Motor Carriage in this game either. The first possible combat use would have been during Operation Market Garden in mid-September 1944, idk if it was part of the TO&E of any American divisions taking part in that operation.

Should we get a Market Garden campaign/addon or 1945 DLC, you can expect one or both of these vehicles. The M26 Pershing helped secure the first bridge over the Rhine at Remagen, by providing fire support to the infantry and eliminating fortifications. A Pershing engaged a Panther in a famous tank duel(famous because the entire duel was filmed by a US Army war photographer) in front of Cologne Cathedral during the battle for the city.
 
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Nerdfish said:
It IS a unicorn, only one was ever deployed. But according to legend it wrecked a tiger, easily at that.
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A lot of things wrecked tigers.

I WUB PUGS said:
Sounds like a Unicorn. So I hope it isn't in the game.
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+1

There is a horrible tendency in wargames of expectations inflation towards overweight and later tech vehicles. Then people get the false impression that very impressive units like M4A3(75) or Pz4 are obsolete when actually they were cutting edge. There were still Renault 34 and Stug IIs kicking around. The British were still using Valentines in a few places. A sherman or M10 or a panzer 4 or stug 3 isn't a crappy unit, that's a really powerful vehicle! The prototypes aren't things like the T26, they are things like the easy-six, firefly, jumbo, panther and tiger.
 
keynes2.0 said:
A lot of things wrecked tigers.



+1

There is a horrible tendency in wargames of expectations inflation towards overweight and later tech vehicles. Then people get the false impression that very impressive units like M4A3(75) or Pz4 are obsolete when actually they were cutting edge. There were still Renault 34 and Stug IIs kicking around. The British were still using Valentines in a few places. A sherman or M10 or a panzer 4 or stug 3 isn't a crappy unit, that's a really powerful vehicle! The prototypes aren't things like the T26, they are things like the easy-six, firefly, jumbo, panther and tiger.
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76mm Shermans, Jumbos, Fireflies, Panthers, and Tigers are not prototypes. They were relatively common vehicles. Panther is the second most produced German tank, and all 6000 produced 1943-1945 meaning less attrition than the 8000+ Panzer IVs from 1936 to 1945. The British attempted to have one Firefly for every 3 tanks(One Firefly per medium tank platoon). Various Sherman models with 76mm turrets were available/used in Normandy from July onwards(on both the M4A1, M4A2, and M4A3 hulls), just none with the HVSS suspension of the M4A2E8 or M4A3E8. The Tiger was a heavy tank and thus obviously less common, but the British still faced a fuckton( USA only faced Panthers and various Panzers,StuGs,etc in Normandy).

Prototypes should be things that are slightly out of the timeframe of the Normandy campaign/Allied liberation of France(June-August 1944). However, there shouldn't even be any prototypes in this game unless they were actually part of a divisions TO&E.
 
Tankhunter__ said:
Prototypes should be things that are slightly out of the timeframe of the Normandy campaign/Allied liberation of France(June-August 1944). However, there shouldn't even be any prototypes in this game unless they were actually part of a divisions TO&E.
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MadMat said the closest thing to a "prototype" in this game is M22 Locusts, which were there in TO&Es waiting to be used, they only weren't used IRL by luck. Which is totally fine in my book.
 
@Tankhunter__

I was being a bit sloppy with the term "prototype". I meant to just refer to experimental vehicles which were attempting to push the envelope.

Yes there were ~500 jumbos but they hard serious problems because the tank wasn't designed to move that much weight.
Yes there were ~1000 Panthers in France but they had the exact same problem
Yes there were hundreds of firefly (eventually), but the turret wasn't designed to hold a gun that big

The M4(76) was a design with all the kinks worked out so yeah, bad example in that case. But even though the 76 would eventually replace all the 75s, that upgrade process was just getting started in late 44 and it's not like a tank with a 75 would be at some massive disadvantage.
 
Jumbos weren't unstoppable killers but they should be extremely useful in the game. They tank the shots while M18s flank around at 88 mph with flaming tread marks on the ground.
 
keynes2.0 said:
@Tankhunter__

I was being a bit sloppy with the term "prototype". I meant to just refer to experimental vehicles which were attempting to push the envelope.

Yes there were ~500 jumbos but they hard serious problems because the tank wasn't designed to move that much weight.
Yes there were ~1000 Panthers in France but they had the exact same problem
Yes there were hundreds of firefly (eventually), but the turret wasn't designed to hold a gun that big

The M4(76) was a design with all the kinks worked out so yeah, bad example in that case. But even though the 76 would eventually replace all the 75s, that upgrade process was just getting started in late 44 and it's not like a tank with a 75 would be at some massive disadvantage.
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The M4(76) would never entirely replace the 75mm Shermans during WW2. It is best used to complement your 75mm armed tanks with a better protected 76mm gun than the M10 or M18. The 76mm also packed an inferior HE shell due to it's higher velocity( As did the German 75mm L/48 and the Panther's Kwk 42) in comparison to the M3 75mm gun.

To not make the M10 or M18 (edit) not inferior, you can give them HVAP if it is in timeframe, as it was an uncommon round with only a few given to Shermans(and priority given to tank destroyers). Since they don't do separate AP ammo types in Wargame, Giving HVAP to TDs and leaving the 76mm tanks with standard APCBC or whatever they had is fine.
 
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Tankhunter__ said:
The M4(76) would never entirely replace the 75mm Shermans during WW2.
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Yes, the intent was to replace but it was not completed during the war.


Tankhunter__ said:
To not make the M10 or M18 inferior, you can give them HVAP if it is in timeframe, as it was an uncommon round with only a few given to Shermans(and priority given to tank destroyers). Since they don't do separate AP ammo types in Wargame, Giving HVAP to TDs and leaving the 76mm tanks with standard APCBC or whatever they had is fine.
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Even without HVAP, the gun on the M10 had a higher velocity AP shell available. You wouldn't need to give them HVAP to make them good at their role.

Also a very interesting tidbit about the M10 is that starting in North Africa they were used for mobile artillery providing indirect fire support, a role in which they excelled. In fact M10s fired more HE shells then AP shells for this reason, although the AP shells were probably more important. The repeated firing of HE shells also wore down the barrels which was a drawback.
 
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