Planes,plane loadouts, and Pilot Veterancy/training

[Miskyavine]

So how will plane loadouts be handled in this game? because this could easily ruin certain planes like in wargame because US planes like the P-47 could carry an incredible bomb load of 2 1000 pound bombs and a 500 pound bomb or have 2 1000 pound bombs and rockets and could easily be stuck with small loadouts liek the A4 in wargame carrying 4 small bombs when in reality it could carry 24 of that same bomb i hope this isnt a problem in Steel Division
I want to be able to choose to i want my P-47 to go fight ground or planes or drop the bombs then fight planes not just be this is my bomber the P-51 is the fighter and have no choice

And the P-47M/N would be a great Fighter going 800+ KMH Fasted single piston engine plane of ww2.

the P-61 Blackwidow also have an interesting place acting kind of like a Early warning aircraft as the Radar in its nose plus it can carry 4 1000 pound bombs, First Airplane to have a Radar to scan for other airplanes.Also a remote control Turret ontop pretty cool airplane one of my favorites (although i say that aswell about the P-51,P-47,P-38, and the F4U Corsair wich sadly wont apear in this game, Pacific DLC?


How will plane stats be a represented because theres a lot of ways Amazing planes like the P-51 could be reduced to just average if the Stats are rounded to the nearist 50 were instead of the P-51 going 710 KMH and the 109 Going 640 if there rounded to there closest 50 the ME109 going 650 and the P-51 going 700 you lose a 20 KMH advantage (this doesnt sound like alot but it will be once the planes are flying around.
Also keep in mind thats at 21000 feet for the 109 and 25000 feet for the P-51 so the speed differance will be even greater at the same alritude or closer to the ground were the scale of air battles in this game will take place.

Whats the size limit on planes? Planes like the B-25 and Mosquito are gonna be pretty awesome if there to scale

i imagine the only planes wthat wont be able to control are B-17s and the 1 or 2 other planes in its class (B-24 and to a lesser extent the Halifax/Lancasters) it would be cool if bomber Formations flew over the map every once in awhile just for looks and immersion (maybe even a side goal to shoot down for Axis side along with fighting the Escorts



Pilot Training and veterancy how will that be represented because the Realistic Advantage to that would also lean in favor to the Allies as most German Aces got ace status shooting down Russian Crop dusters and Stunt planes if Axis loving players cry on the forums about Allied Airpower you know its represented realistically Allied planes were more in numbers and higher in quality of planes and pilots well atleast on the American and British side of the Allies. I imagine this would offset the Prevelence of high amound of Heavy and high end medium tanks the germans would field. How do you fight a tiger or Panther in 1944 pull back and let a P-47 do its job.



Also customisation will we be able to get differant skins and paint jobs for planes and ovarall will the differant divisions ingame have differant paint jobs over there vehicles hround and air to differantiate them from other divisions?

In the end i hope the planes are more historically accurate then how they were represented in games like Warthunder were planes that didnt even have a 1.1(insert soviet plane here) Kill ratio dominate planes that had a 12.1(P-51) or even 19.1 Kill ratio (F6F-Hellcat)

 

[Guggy]

Custom loadouts won't really be super necessary I don't think, but I'd be fine with the same airframe having alternative attack/air superiority loadouts.

Pigeonholing certain planes into a single role when they actively performed several in a successful fashion is a waste.

 

[safe-keeper]

I too would like different loadouts for planes. Would give them far more versatility.

 

[Illusive]

It's going to be difficult to speculate on aircraft performance since we don't know how air combat will work. The shift from missiles to guns is massive and if the aircraft attack each other the way they do in Wargame then turn radius will be the most important stat. Also, at the altitudes used in Wargame, an FW 190 will outperform and out turn a P-47 and a Bf 109 will outperform and out turn a P-51 to the best of my knowledge. The American aircraft were designed for escorting bombers and thus placed higher priority on range than low altitude dogfighting capabilities.

 

[Miskyavine]

Speed is in my opinion very important as you cant shoot what you cant catch Boom and Zoom proved a much better tactic then sticking around dog fighting. With the .50 Cals high stopping power all you need is a short well placed burst to send any enemy figher to the ground in flames The P-51B-D and later P-47s like the M/N are signifigently faster at all altitudes. Differant Tactics could be an interesting option like select what fighting style you want your plane to use on attack and change it if you want to turn around and dog fight

 

[Protz]

The problem is that Eugen has never had aircraft dive/climb unless the target is at a different altitude. So unless they've changed their flight mechanics, booming and zooming will be hard to model in their engine.

 

[Guggy]

Easiest way imo:

Higher altitude CAP flight profile. High end fighters in this altitude are roughly on par. They only go low to bounce enemy attack planes. Veterancy and numbers are key, so if at a disadvantage you'd be wise to run.

Low altitude is for CAS and strike. Same aircraft in this altitude are easily bounced by the guys from above.

By setting the default cruise altitude to high for the fighters, once they complete the engagement they naturally will climb back up to altitude, fuel permitting.

 

[Person012345]

Rear-facing gun emplacements on certain attackers (like the stuka) will also need to be accounted for.

 

[Tankhunter__]

Speed is in my opinion very important as you cant shoot what you cant catch Boom and Zoom proved a much better tactic then sticking around dog fighting. With the .50 Cals high stopping power all you need is a short well placed burst to send any enemy figher to the ground in flames The P-51B-D and later P-47s like the M/N are signifigently faster at all altitudes. Differant Tactics could be an interesting option like select what fighting style you want your plane to use on attack and change it if you want to turn around and dog fight

No P-47M/Ns. Only P-38s,P-51B/Cs and P-47Ds, with P-51Ds being the rarer top-tier fighter(having just entered service during the Normandy campaign). The British will have lots of Spitfires and Typhoons, as well as the vaunted Tempest.

The game's time period appears to be June-August 1944.

 

[Rabidnid]

Rear-facing gun emplacements on certain attackers (like the stuka) will also need to be accounted for.

Already in Red Dragon

No P-47M/Ns. Only P-38s,P-51B/Cs and P-47Ds, with P-51Ds being the rarer top-tier fighter(having just entered service during the Normandy campaign). The British will have lots of Spitfires and Typhoons, as well as the vaunted Tempest.

The game's time period appears to be June-August 1944.

Yup. Fighter Command included aircraft like the Mk XIV Spitfire and the Mustang III which were purely ASF

Second Tactical air force would have the Typhoon as a strike aircraft and the Spitfire IX as both a strike aircraft and ASF. The P-51A, Mitchell, mosquito and Boston would be much more rare.

I've not looked at the US at all but the P-47 and P-38 are obvious, along with the B-25. At some point all the P-51s in the 9th air force were traded out to the 8th air force so no Mustangs for the US unless they also have some P-51A PRs somewhere.

 

[Miskyavine]

P-51D is confirmed in screenshot... look at the bottom left hand corner.
https://steamcommunity.com/linkfilt...38e08eac1db327bc36.1920x1080.jpg?t=1488385289

The new line, designated NA-109, P-51D, was started after the USAAF ordered 2,500 in July 1943. Interesting is that the XP-51D did not have a test flight until November 17, 1943, well after the first order was placed. Deliveries to fighter units began March of 1944 and a good supply was on hand for the Normandy Invasion, or D-Day.
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/variants/p51d

 

[Rabidnid]

P-51D is confirmed in screenshot... look at the bottom left hand corner.
https://steamcommunity.com/linkfilt...38e08eac1db327bc36.1920x1080.jpg?t=1488385289

The new line, designated NA-109, P-51D, was started after the USAAF ordered 2,500 in July 1943. Interesting is that the XP-51D did not have a test flight until November 17, 1943, well after the first order was placed. Deliveries to fighter units began March of 1944 and a good supply was on hand for the Normandy Invasion, or D-Day.
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/variants/p51d

Of course, but they were in the 8th air force and so would have a limited role over France.

The RAF were supposed to be responsible for air superiority over France while the 8th stuck to bombing Germany. None of this will matter though unless Eugen decide to differentiate aircraft based on engine type/size.

 

[Tankhunter__]

P-51D is confirmed in screenshot... look at the bottom left hand corner.
https://steamcommunity.com/linkfilt...38e08eac1db327bc36.1920x1080.jpg?t=1488385289

The new line, designated NA-109, P-51D, was started after the USAAF ordered 2,500 in July 1943. Interesting is that the XP-51D did not have a test flight until November 17, 1943, well after the first order was placed. Deliveries to fighter units began March of 1944 and a good supply was on hand for the Normandy Invasion, or D-Day.
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/variants/p51d

The P-51D should be available and I never denied that. However, I did more searching and found more source that agree with your claim of spring 1944 than what I remember seeing which was "mid-1944". So the P-51D should be decently common, more so than I originally thought. Hopefully it doesn't totally supplant the P-51Bs or P-51Cs since it never actually replaced them completely during wartime.

 

[1776ZOOMSNIPE1911]

So how will plane loadouts be handled in this game? because this could easily ruin certain planes like in wargame because US planes like the P-47 could carry an incredible bomb load of 2 1000 pound bombs and a 500 pound bomb or have 2 1000 pound bombs and rockets and could easily be stuck with small loadouts liek the A4 in wargame carrying 4 small bombs when in reality it could carry 24 of that same bomb i hope this isnt a problem in Steel Division
I want to be able to choose to i want my P-47 to go fight ground or planes or drop the bombs then fight planes not just be this is my bomber the P-51 is the fighter and have no choice

And the P-47M/N would be a great Fighter going 800+ KMH Fasted single piston engine plane of ww2.

the P-61 Blackwidow also have an interesting place acting kind of like a Early warning aircraft as the Radar in its nose plus it can carry 4 1000 pound bombs, First Airplane to have a Radar to scan for other airplanes.Also a remote control Turret ontop pretty cool airplane one of my favorites (although i say that aswell about the P-51,P-47,P-38, and the F4U Corsair wich sadly wont apear in this game, Pacific DLC?


How will plane stats be a represented because theres a lot of ways Amazing planes like the P-51 could be reduced to just average if the Stats are rounded to the nearist 50 were instead of the P-51 going 710 KMH and the 109 Going 640 if there rounded to there closest 50 the ME109 going 650 and the P-51 going 700 you lose a 20 KMH advantage (this doesnt sound like alot but it will be once the planes are flying around.
Also keep in mind thats at 21000 feet for the 109 and 25000 feet for the P-51 so the speed differance will be even greater at the same alritude or closer to the ground were the scale of air battles in this game will take place.

Whats the size limit on planes? Planes like the B-25 and Mosquito are gonna be pretty awesome if there to scale

i imagine the only planes wthat wont be able to control are B-17s and the 1 or 2 other planes in its class (B-24 and to a lesser extent the Halifax/Lancasters) it would be cool if bomber Formations flew over the map every once in awhile just for looks and immersion (maybe even a side goal to shoot down for Axis side along with fighting the Escorts



Pilot Training and veterancy how will that be represented because the Realistic Advantage to that would also lean in favor to the Allies as most German Aces got ace status shooting down Russian Crop dusters and Stunt planes if Axis loving players cry on the forums about Allied Airpower you know its represented realistically Allied planes were more in numbers and higher in quality of planes and pilots well atleast on the American and British side of the Allies. I imagine this would offset the Prevelence of high amound of Heavy and high end medium tanks the germans would field. How do you fight a tiger or Panther in 1944 pull back and let a P-47 do its job.



Also customisation will we be able to get differant skins and paint jobs for planes and ovarall will the differant divisions ingame have differant paint jobs over there vehicles hround and air to differantiate them from other divisions?

In the end i hope the planes are more historically accurate then how they were represented in games like Warthunder were planes that didnt even have a 1.1(insert soviet plane here) Kill ratio dominate planes that had a 12.1(P-51) or even 19.1 Kill ratio (F6F-Hellcat)

I think if they did like a couple varients of the same plane with maybe an air to air, bombs and a rocket varient would be cool. no need for choosing between 14 250lb bombs and 16 240lb bombs

 

[1776ZOOMSNIPE1911]

I think if they did like a couple varients of the same plane with maybe an air to air, bombs and a rocket varient would be cool. no need for choosing between 14 250lb bombs and 16 240lb bombs

also i like to add do we see TINY TIM missles in game? they are big rockets with 250lbs of explosives and would be a really cool unit. they could balance it out by giving germany a 262 fighter

 

[Solty]

Of course, but theyththe 8th air force and so would have a limited role over France.

The RAF were supposed to be responsible for air superiority over France while the 8th stuck to bombing Germany. None of this will matter though unless Eugen decide to differentiate aircraft based on engine type/size.

If you keep that attitude Germans should have almost no airplanes, as they were depleted due to new tactics employed by the escort fighters of 8th AAF, rendering Luftwaffe usless.

P-51D was supplied since march 1944. And was available. It is using the same engine most 1944 production P-51B's had, V-1650-7 (Merlin 66). Its not like its a completely new plane. Its just a modification of the earlier design, and it is beautiful and better in nearly every way

And before someone gets in with the tailfin issue, it was present only in the first P51D
block 5. All were then retrofitted with the tailfin as a field mod to update them to D10.

Anyway P-51D is confirmed and that makes me happy.

 

[Rabidnid]

If you keep that attitude Germans should have almost no airplanes, as they were depleted due to new tactics employed by the escort fighters of 8th AAF, rendering Luftwaffe usless.

You do know the D model was widely disliked and people only moved to it when forced to? It's loss rate in ground attack was much higher than the P-47 and everybody in the 9th air force was happy to get rid of them.

 

[T80U]

As i see, what aircraft has done to wargame, especially RD, i hope eug will think twice about it's implementation in the game. War is solved by land offensive, with air support. Not vise versa.

 

[_Sev_]

I agree, it will be a small red line to walk on, if the planes have their historical accuracy they will be almost worthless against tanks, if they get yoloswag360noscope accuracy it will dominate and leading to turtling because of the fear that 2 fighter-bombers hammer your attack force into pieces.
Difficult to balance.

 

[Solty]

You do know the D model was widely disliked and people only moved to it when forced to? It's loss rate in ground attack was much higher than the P-47 and everybody in the 9th air force was happy to get rid of them.

Where did you get that information from? P51D had an issue with lack of the tail fin with its first version, the P-51D5 which
created stability issues at high speeds. They moved to a plane when they were ordered to, military doesn't ask. P-51D10 had this issue remedied and many allied pilots and aces loved the P-51D. It is called the "definitive" Mustang for a reason.

Widely regarded and few hold an opinion are not synonymous.

Also, 9th AAF had a different job than Mustang excelled at. They were tactical airforce tasked with ground support missions. P-51D and B excell at air combat and air superiority. Was P47 a better plane for CAS? Absolutely yes. Does that mean pilots universally hated the P-51? Absolutely not.

Same can be said about every water cooled inline engine vs aircooled radial.