CK2 Dev Diary #46: Surveying the Survey

[Dirt McStain]

Just wanted to add my voice for more start dates (plural) in the 900s. From the decline of paganism and the Umayyads, to the formation of the HRE and the Persian interregnum. However, start dates aren't enough to make a fully fledged out DLC. I'd personally like to see things like dynastic feuds and family estates make it into the feudal realm, which could then replace all of the hardcoded equivalent features for merchant republics.

 

[Foxador]

I think I get the mechanical purpose, at least.

At some point, the Mongols will show up and throw the entire Eastern portion of the map into chaos, forcing everybody to adapt to this new circumstance. By contrast, the West can just sort of keep doing its thing (unless the Mongols do really well), and remains kind of static.

The Sunset Invasion, then, is simply there to cause havoc in the West and shake up the late game like the Mongols do in the East.

Also, it's funny.

My problem with the Sunset invasion is that their CB is cheap as hell. I was playing a MP game and made half of France while my wife was the Aquataine (sp) and did a bit of damage before I lost Brittney. After we licked our wounds I wanted to attack back knowing I'd lose but just to weaken their event spawn troops.

The problem is that they had 100k-120k troops death ball stacked on Brittney and the moment I declared the war I needed at least two-three weeks to gather my army and mercs in a location to group up and attack them back. In those two-three weeks they got 100% warscore by besieging down just THREE provinces while I had a realm size of 200... I couldn't even attacked them before they won the war since they have massive stacks sitting right inside or next to my land that insta siege everything they touch

 

[Raeker]

Eh no the aztecs were a nomadic people living in the west coast of the US unti, like the last century of the game. Even then it is not until in the eu4 era that they adopt the culture of the civilisations they conquered and actually are anything more than barbarians sitting in stone structures built by others.
And there is no golden age at all in mesoamerica during the viking age, the olmec civilisation collapsed in the 5th century AD The empire of Teotihuacan in the 7th century. Following that mesoamerica is invaded by a series of barbarian invasions, which end with the aztecs invading in the 15th century and finally putting together something resembling an empire again.
Some of the civilizations in between might be seen as somewhat advanced the zapotec for an example but they were on the west coast.

Edit: Yeah as noted below I forgot the toltec.

I think he's confusing the Toltec with the Aztec.

Toltec Empire was from 496 to 1122.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/Ludovin/recommended/210902/
That is the review I was talking about.

 

[TheDungen]

http://steamcommunity.com/id/Ludovin/recommended/210902/
That is the review I was talking about.

I see well that simply is wrong. As I have already said the Aztecs were nomads who only arrived in mesoamerica in the last two centuries of the game. Like the germans and franks in europe they squatted in what had been built by earlier advanced civilisations and over time adopted culture from those civilisations. But the Aztecs did not build the great buldings of mesoamerica nor the agriculture or the road system. They merely conquered it. And they were still in the late stages of subjugating that land when the Spanish arrived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec

 

[Raeker]

I see well that simply is wrong. As I have already said the Aztecs were nomads who only arrived in mesoamerica in the last two centuries of the game. Like the germans and franks in europe they squatted in what had been built by earlier advanced civilisations and over time adopted culture from those civilisations. But the Aztecs did not build the great buldings of mesoamerica nor the agriculture or the road system. They merely conquered it. And they were still in the late stages of subjugating that land when the Spanish arrived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec

Ah, ignore my post then

 

[Dakilla TM]

I would buy that just to get access to the chinese culture in the ruler designer

That's me right there. The Khitans in game are pretty close aside from clothing.

 

[Kayden_II]

You're the one to pay up for the lost dlcontent they removed just because you can't afford a proper CPU

It's not about my Computer: The Addition of India was a Quantity-Expansion and We have the same Stuff in Regards of China, now ...
The Regions don't really interact with each Other and to have an other Map-Expansion, Which does not interact with the Player does not really make Sense to implement ...
We need at Least some Sort of a Possibility to "deactivate" Regions before the Game adds new Ones.

 

[Kljunas]

Pretty hilarious that even something boring like jungle terrain was a better received feature than Zunism.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Dude, nobody "fanboys" over SI, whenever it comes up is somebody complaining about it. Sort of shows that the problem is the anti-fanboys.

On the survey. It seems a few of these questions don't quite compare. On the SoA expansion every christian can con on pilgrimage, but not everyone can restore Jerusalem.
It skews the balance towards small personal mechanics no?

Thanks for showing us this!

No, people are complaining because it was a shitty DLC that should never have diverted resources away fro other DLCs that would actually make sense and improve the game. People were mad for a reason, not because they wanted to be contrarian.

 

[neusaap]

It's not about my Computer: The Addition of India was a Quantity-Expansion and We have the same Stuff in Regards of China, now ...
The Regions don't really interact with each Other and to have an other Map-Expansion, Which does not interact with the Player does not really make Sense to implement ...
We need at Least some Sort of a Possibility to "deactivate" Regions before the Game adds new Ones.

That's an AI issue, not of India itself. If I'm playing Zoroastrian Persia it's a fun experience invading India through the mountains. The other way around works too, capturing Baluchistan and beyond as a Hindu invader.

If I may do a suggestion, try nomadic Turkestan into India and form an alternate Turkey in India; I'm sure you'll change your mind...

Edit: If you lack the needed DLC, then try Nestorian Ilkhanate instead

 

[GUmby_Aaron]

Hopefully we won't see anymore sunset invasions. Still never understood why you guys made it, no one even asked for it.

They made it as a counter balance threat to the (at that time of the games life) overwhelming Golden Horde which the northwestern Europeon players were immune to

 

[DàbiànLājīdàrén]

It's not about my Computer: The Addition of India was a Quantity-Expansion and We have the same Stuff in Regards of China, now ...
The Regions don't really interact with each Other and to have an other Map-Expansion, Which does not interact with the Player does not really make Sense to implement ...
We need at Least some Sort of a Possibility to "deactivate" Regions before the Game adds new Ones.

Why do people keep saying India doesn't interact with other regions? I've even seen Russia turn Hindu before and one time Jerusalem was owned by Hindus. If anything India needs to have less influence and not convert all of central Asia and the nomads to Hinduism. More often than not Hinduism destroys Buddhism and Jainism leading it to become the largest religion in the game. In game mechanic terms, this is overpowered as hell, and leads to insanely ahistorically overpowered Indian kingdoms that bitchslap Muslims left and right.

 

[TheDungen]

Pretty hilarious that even something boring like jungle terrain was a better received feature than Zunism.

Yeah I don't get that, I thought Zunism was well liked... I mean it has drawbacks in that it is only present in the earliest start date, but the same thing can be said for other things.

 

[Zalmoxis]

India in this time frame under constant invasion by Muslim turks. I'm fairly new to this game so I haven't gotten to that part of the world yet, but turkish Muslims invading India does count as India interacting with the rest of the world, and so if the game does that as well, I see no problem.

And even if India doesn't interact much with the rest of the world, so what? Its still a viable place to play the game. I would be very disappointed if India is not in in CK3.

 

[Serenity84]

More often than not Hinduism destroys Buddhism

I've also seen Buddhism spread all the way to the Scandinavian borders. It's a bit extreme, but not that unrealistic really. The steppe hordes were a huge mishmash of religions.

 

[Spear12]

I liked Sunset Invasion, but it is not historically possible, even not accounting for the whole technology factor. The Triple Alliance did not form until the 15th century. I mean, the supposed point where this diverges from history is that the Vinlanders are more successful and trigger an early bloom of a state centering around Tenochtitlán, founded a couple centuries earlier by an earlier migration of the Aztec* peoples. Which, I suppose, is possible as we are talking about a game with the literal devil and immortality.

However, I am not sure the devs had historical accuracy that much in mind while making it.

 

[tywinzo]

The ambiguity of the survey makes the results rather useless. I could have answered the direct opposite on most of the questions depending on interpretation. There was also a lack of options to choose from, so it was really hard to make the point across. A fun thing, but I'd take it with a grain of salt!

 

[Zalmoxis]

I liked Sunset Invasion, but it is not historically possible, even not accounting for the whole technology factor. The Triple Alliance did not form until the 15th century. I mean, the supposed point where this diverges from history is that the Vinlanders are more successful and trigger an early bloom of a state centering around Tenochtitlán, founded a couple centuries earlier by an earlier migration of the Aztec* peoples. Which, I suppose, is possible as we are talking about a game with the literal devil and immortality.

I like to think the Americas are radically different when Sunset Invasion is active. Just like Random New World in EU4. I too like the sunset invasion, most of the time its off, but It is something I like to put on every-once in a while if I'm in the mood for a really fantastical game, same with Devil Worshipers.

 

[Spear12]

On a more related note, if the devs do decide to do another start date, I think it will likely be either one in the 10th century (possibly 927, 966) or an earlier one. If it is earlier, they will almost certainly not go before 632. That's a hard cut off, as I'm not sure Paradox wants to have Mohammed be a live character in the game. So a 635 or 640 start date is possible, I guess.

 

[Spear12]

I like to think the Americas are radically different when Sunset Invasion is active. Just like Random New World in EU4. I too like the sunset invasion, most of the time its off, but It is something I like to put on every-once in a while if I'm in the mood for a really fantastical game, same with Devil Worshipers.

Well as we can see from CK2(Sunset)->EU4 the Americas seem to have consolidated around large empires which suggests that the Vinlanders actually got very much everywhere in America and introduced European concepts as well as technology. I do like the idea of Amerindians that can go head to head with the Europeans as the Aztecs and Incas can in the converted games.