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CK2 Dev Diary #51: The Roof of the World

Hi folks!

PDXCON 2017 is over and it was fantastic to meet so many of you! I got a lot of interesting suggestions and feedback on our games, including, of course, CK2. So, a special thank you goes out to those of you who were there!

Now then, let’s talk a bit about those ugly gray areas on the map; the wastelands. Aesthetically, I’ve never liked the gray color of wasteland provinces in the non-Terrain map modes, so I took some time to change it so that wasteland is now always shown as Terrain, regardless of map mode (we might add options for this in the settings. Let me know what you think!)

Northern Siberia and the Sahara deserve to be wasteland; it’s difficult to do anything more about that (we’ve already twisted and manipulated the map projection, etc.) However, the Himalayas and the vast Tibetan plateau are a different story… Though mountainous, the region contains many important population centers and religious sites and has a rich history of interaction with China, India and Central Asia. In essence, the only reason it’s a “wasteland” in CK2 is that we haven’t prioritized doing it justice.

tibet_full.png

Tibet, 1066. Note that any green Coat of Arms are placeholders.


I’ve never been happy with the way the eastern edge of the map feels like the edge of the world when, in fact, it should be a dynamic hub connecting at least four major civilizations (China, India, the Steppe Nomads and the Islamic world.) Well, the time to do something about that is now! In our working build, we have added the necessary provinces, new cultures (Bodpa, Tangut and Nepalese), new religions (Bön and Khurmazta), and title history for the entire region.

himalaya.png

The Himalayan mountains, 867.

The Bön religion is a pagan faith which functionally has many similarities with the Romuvan and Buddhist religions: It is very hard to convert, has access to Gavelkind, and unlike other pagan faiths it can not be reformed (though this might change in the future.) Instead, it starts off with the ability to designate heirs, just like Buddhists. It has also got a Patron Deity system like that of the Hindus and the “defensive” Pagans.

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Purang, one of the Bön religion's Holy Sites.


In addition, we are looking over the great Muslim conquerors (Sabuktigin, Seljuq and Timur) to make sure they usually rise, toning down the Indian Holy Orders and making them creatable (rather than existing from the start.) We also plan to add or expand on adventurers for more generic conquests into and out of the subcontinent especially.

There is more, but that would be revealing too much too soon. :) Stay tuned for the next dev diary!

EDIT: Todays livestreams are cancelled due to attrition from PDXCON.
 
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These religions will not get new Societies, but we're definitely not scrapping that system. I want to add more Societies down the line.

Still think the Dominicans should be created via event rather than existing during Charlemagne. Could balance that out gameplay-wise by having a society that only exists in the earlier startdates but an event disbands them.
 
Thank you very much for this addition. I've wanted Tibet included for a long time, but didn't ever expect it since it's kind of a backwater region.

With the way the map is oriented, it's possible that it's hiding at least a sliver of playable East Asia, but Burma is clearly a wasteland. Even if we get China I don't think we're getting all the rest of Asia.
 
The additions that you rate the highest in a new DLC:

  1. New Events - With an overwhelming majority of 73,16% appreciating this type of addition very much.

  2. New Starting Dates - With 51,53% appreciating this type of addition very much.

  3. Reworked Previously Existing Features - With 44,25% appreciating this type of addition very much.

  4. Expanded Map - With 38,94% appreciating this type of addition very much.

  5. New Succession Laws - With 29,16% appreciating this type of addition very much.

  6. Interface Skins - With 25,24% appreciating this type of addition very much.

QUOTE @rageair
 
Awesome... 5 years of development on Crusader Kings II concludes with no attention given to the Crusades.

While I'm also afraid of the possibility that Crusades get no focus (especially since they feel nothing at all as the historical ones), I should remind that there is supposedly one more DLc AND that DDs for this new update have barely began so we don't know what it entails (Tibet doesn't seem to even be a major addition).

More content the game doesn't need, and more content that you 'want to do something about' but will never actually do said region justice. Just stop it now already, and give us water combat damn it.

They already made their stance om this clear: they don't even want to add Naval Combat.
 
Still think the Dominicans should be created via event rather than existing during Charlemagne. Could balance that out gameplay-wise by having a society that only exists in the earlier startdates but an event disbands them.

I don't even think it needs to be balanced out with another society. Late-game does need more priority, and the Catholics already have by far the largest number of Societies.
 
OMG. The game barely runs now and both CK2+ and HIP allow to exclude India for better performance and you're expanding the map AGAIN?

The game will be slower than a snail going through iconic state of slowmo bullet time. There are much more interesting things to add and fix than just another pointless patch of land.

Downvote all you want.

Removing India gives about a 6-8% performance gain. The biggest performance gain was in the 2.6 patch.
Just because provinces are added in vanilla that doesn't mean they'll be added to Plus or HIP.
 
I was going to use a quote above to help reply, but it was one of yours!

Back when HL came out, it was said (I can't remember which dev) Tiande of Dunhuang was a placeholder for the Tang presence in the region. Kucha should be the seat of power, true, though currently in game its an independent Tocharian. Anxi should be duke level with far more territory, and/or perhaps tributary status over several of the lords in the basin, though we don't know for sure the exact setup after contact was lost.

So yes. Guo Xin isn't currently in the game and he should be.
There were actually not just 1, but 3 jiedushi who should be on the map.

Hexi (河西)
Although Hexi was supposed to be in the Hexi Corridor, the successful Tibetan offensive drove the Tang military northwards, and by 769 the control was conveniently reduced to Shazhou (Dunhuang) and Guazhou (Anxi). The Jiedushi then was Zhou Ding (周鼎).

Beiting (北庭)
The seat of the Jiedushi of Beiting was in Beshbalik (庭州 Tingzhou), and controls Turpan (西州 Xizhou) and Kumul (伊州 Yizhou). The jiedushi (though the office was actually 都護 duhu at that time) in 769 was Cao Lingzhong (曹令忠), later awarded the imperial surname of Li and became Li Yuanzhong (李元忠). Additionally, according to the internet, he's a Soghdian.

Anxi (安西)
Centered in Kucha (龜茲 Qiuci), and controlled the rest of the Tarim Basin. There were two jiedushi around that time and there seems to be no information on when the succession occurred. The earlier one was Erzhu Mou (爾朱某), the latter one was Guo Xin (郭昕), nephew of the Tang general Guo Ziyi (郭子儀).

Source of names and offices:

https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/喻安西北庭諸將制
河西節度使周鼎、安西北庭都護曹令忠、爾朱某等,義烈相感,貫於神明,各受方任,同獎王室。

https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/賜李元忠郭昕詔
伊西北庭節度觀察使李元忠,可北庭大都護;四鎮節度留後郭昕,可安西大都護四鎮節度觀察使。
 
OMG. The game barely runs now and both CK2+ and HIP allow to exclude India for better performance and you're expanding the map AGAIN?

The game will be slower than a snail going through iconic state of slowmo bullet time. There are much more interesting things to add and fix than just another pointless patch of land.

Downvote all you want.
Rajas of India added over 300 provinces. China with the rest of Asia would need over 500 probably. I'd be worried as well for performance if that was the case.
But this is a dozen or so of extra provinces. It's not going to impact your performance by any noticeable margin.
You're overreacting here buddy.
 
Awesome... 5 years of development on Crusader Kings II concludes with no attention given to the Crusades.

How often need the devs to say 'Crusader Kings is JUST a name and NOT the focus of the game'? If they could they would have named it 'Game of Thrones'.

Of course crusades would be nice with more attention... but people should stop claiming it should be happen because of the name of the game.
 
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How often need the devs to say 'Crusader Kings is JUST a name and NOT the focus of the game'? If they could they would have named it 'Game of Thrones'.

Of course crusades would be nice with more attention... but people should stop claiming it should be happen because of the name of the game.

Honestly, it wasn't even the focus of the first game. That game modelled Crusades even worse, and even most of the contemporary marketing focused on the gameplay of playing feudal rulers. It may be fair to say the original title was originally focused on Europe, but using the game's title as an argument doesn't seem like a good idea.
 
Speaking of EU4, music player in CK2 when

There has been one in CK2 for... at least 2 major patches now. Look down on the bottom right, it should be to the left of the minimap.

OMG. The game barely runs now and both CK2+ and HIP allow to exclude India for better performance and you're expanding the map AGAIN?

It's not a true map expansion, it's filling in empty provinces much like Horse Lords did with the Tarim Basin area. You're looking at what, 40ish provinces? I think HL added in over 25 without a performance hit, so the chances are good this won't be CPU destroying too.

More content the game doesn't need, [...] give us water combat damn it.

Aren't those the same things? :p
 
Without stepping on your favourite piece of the world history which we all respect: can we just get over the idea of China being added? Let's be real here it's not realistic. It will be events at most and little else when it comes to this region. But the new region itself is a welcome addition. I hope that Paradox also makes changes to other parts of the map too.
 
OMG. The game barely runs now and both CK2+ and HIP allow to exclude India for better performance and you're expanding the map AGAIN?

The game will be slower than a snail going through iconic state of slowmo bullet time. There are much more interesting things to add and fix than just another pointless patch of land.
It runs faster now than it ever has, really if you have performance issues now you would of had them 5 years ago when the game was new, get a better computer.