• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Trying to cut Equipment delivery speed by 10 to 0.03 does work to slow it down by expected amounts. Equipment Delivery to to Siberian troops now require around 350 hours instead.
Good find. I've casually played around with those defines but never managed to track it sensibly. 35hours to Siberia is just crazy but there must have been some thought behind this from PDS side.
Tracking and GUI is one potential issue since it'll be hard for a player to gauge where stuff currently is if under long transit (the check/timer if equipment is missing or not seems to be hardcoded).
The US overseas and UK far-east performance could be seriously hurt if timers were longer. And without historical overseas stockpiles and everything counting from the Capital it's possibly an issue.
 
I think it worked decently in Arsenal of Democracy actually while still being pretty automated with minimal interactions and management needed.
  • Ships stockpiled fuel and supplies (ammo) in ports, and automatically returned for more once either was closed to used up ( after a few weeks of patrolling or if engaged in drawn out combat ).
  • Divisions with heavy artillery attachment could bombard enemies but this quickly used up available supplies (ammo), meaning units had to pause.
  • Tank Divisions used up fuel (oil) faster then they regained it while moving or attacking leading to short breaks if in good supply, or extended breaks if in bad supply being needed to not suffer crippling penalties to movement and org regain.

For me Germany being able to build 100 Motorized or Tank divisions and drive them to Vladivostok without any access to anything but refined oil is a real deal breaker immersion wise, such fantasy things was impossible to do both in HoI3 and HoI2.

Alex... we've been through this before.

ANY GOOD IDEA FROM ARSENAL OF DEMOCRACY WILL NEVER BE IN HOI4.

We knew this from the get go.

One of these days we'll have to ask Podcat why that was in the design document.
 
Alex... we've been through this before.

ANY GOOD IDEA FROM ARSENAL OF DEMOCRACY WILL NEVER BE IN HOI4.

We knew this from the get go.

One of these days we'll have to ask Podcat why that was in the design document.

To be fair, some good features from AoD made it into HOI4 - refineries for example.
 
To be fair, some good features from AoD made it into HOI4 - refineries for example.

Only a shadow of them.

In AoD the Synthetic refineries:
  • Required resources as input ( with very bad conversion rates for early tech ).
  • Had their output improved by technologies
  • Were possible to control level of output ( if you had overbuilt and needed the input more )
  • Were available separately for oil and rubber ( rares ).
  • Were balanced such that it was almost impossible or really expensive to depend totally on them, not a mandatory strategy for Axis that easilly make you an oil exporter in 1939 like in HoI4.

HoI4 refineries are just oil and rubber factories that you build and then provide free resources forever.
 
Let's not forget the fun things like...
  1. Concentration effects for industry that added bonus IC and sped up construction, making it tempting not to disperse your industry
  2. Infrastructure having an effect on IC and resource production so improving infra gave a return
  3. The 4 hour delay to give attack or retreat orders so that combat has a tempo.
  4. Battles that lasted longer the more forces were involved.
  5. IC cost to restore infra
  6. Prioritizing provinces for repair
  7. Many, many other good ideas....


    But no one at Paradox seems to have considered.

 
Last edited:
We could all try and convince Podcat to give AoD a bash? It's not as if it's disappeared into an alternate universe and can't be accessed (well, I haven't checked in the last six months or so, but I'd be surprised!) - and from the point of view of a WW2 GSG game designer, it's pretty easy to argue it's relevant :).
 
4. Battles that lasted longer the more forces were involved.

I'd say this one works fine in HoI4. As long as the units have decent reinforcement chance with enough forces and rotating in new units battle can last infinitely long.

We could all try and convince Podcat to give AoD a bash? It's not as if it's disappeared into an alternate universe and can't be accessed (well, I haven't checked in the last six months or so, but I'd be surprised!) - and from the point of view of a WW2 GSG game designer, it's pretty easy to argue it's relevant :).

Id love to see podcat tasked with taking over the world as Germany in AoD live on World War Wednesdays when they have nothing better/new to show. Should we make a petition? :)
 
I'd say this one works fine in HoI4. As long as the units have decent reinforcement chance with enough forces and rotating in new units battle can last infinitely long.



Id love to see podcat tasked with taking over the world as Germany in AoD live on World War Wednesdays when they have nothing better/new to show. Should we make a petition? :)

Oh my God... yes. This needs to be a petition.
 
Let's not forget the fun things like...
  1. Concentration effects for industry that added bonus IC and sped up construction, making it tempting not to disperse your industry
  2. Infrastructure having an effect on IC and resource production so improving infra gave a return
  3. The 4 hour delay to give attack or retreat orders so that combat has a tempo.
  4. Battles that lasted longer the more forces were involved.
  5. IC cost to restore infra
  6. Prioritizing provinces for repair
  7. Many, many other good ideas....


    But no one at Paradox seems to have considered.

I need to play AOD again.
 
I need to play AOD again.
It's not as fun as I remembered. I miss the HOI4 features more when playing AoD or HOI3 than I miss AoD and HOI3 features when playing HOI4. But there's some really really neat stuff in both HOI2/AoD and HOI3 that I would love to see implemented in HOI4 in some way or another, and a lot of stuff that I'm really happy is gone.
 
Let's not forget the fun things like...
  1. Concentration effects for industry that added bonus IC and sped up construction, making it tempting not to disperse your industry
  2. Infrastructure having an effect on IC and resource production so improving infra gave a return
  3. The 4 hour delay to give attack or retreat orders so that combat has a tempo.
  4. Battles that lasted longer the more forces were involved.
  5. IC cost to restore infra
  6. Prioritizing provinces for repair
  7. Many, many other good ideas....


    But no one at Paradox seems to have considered.

I guess I am not sure what you are saying here. To my mind all of the items on your list are already in HOI4. Are you pointing out some of the nuances in a system that some think is too simplistic or are you trying to make some other point?
 
I'd love to see podcat tasked with taking over the world as Germany in AoD live on World War Wednesdays when they have nothing better/new to show. Should we make a petition? :)

Don't call it a petition, as they're not allowed, but if we made a 'lobbying' thread encouraging Podcat (and perhaps some of the other devs) to give it a run, I'd strongly support it :). I'd happily start it m'self, but I think it'd be more appropriate coming from an AoD vet, as opposed to someone who mixes up vanilla HoI2, DH and AoD in their head :oops:.
 
Don't call it a petition, as they're not allowed, but if we made a 'lobbying' thread encouraging Podcat (and perhaps some of the other devs) to give it a run, I'd strongly support it :). I'd happily start it m'self, but I think it'd be more appropriate coming from an AoD vet, as opposed to someone who mixes up vanilla HoI2, DH and AoD in their head :oops:.
Just call it a special request. :)
 
While I agree with what many people have already stated, that HOI4's supply system is far more player-friendly than HOI3's system, as well as that it is unlikely we'll see much improvement to the current system in some future patch or expansion, I think it is important to say that the simplicity of HOI4's supply system results in not just a failure to match historical realities of the war, but also fails to allow for inventiveness on the player's part with how to use these mechanics. So as a result, grand strategy veterans hungering for a good simulation are left unsatisfied, and players of beginner or intermediate skill - such as myself - are left uncertain and confused as to how to remedy certain situations they find in their own breakthroughs.

For example, right now I'm having a post-European conquest Germany try to invade India via Afghanistan and while I originally THOUGHT that I had upgraded the local infrastructure sufficiently for my plans, it quickly becomes evident that I did not. So my offensive stalls, even when I had believed that I was playing the game appropriately. It seems that a lack of infrastructure in a province being invaded is more of a boon to a defender than a deficit, as it's impossible for an attacker to do anything about local logistical issues until they completely own the state in question. There is no real clever solution to supply issues, as was sometimes the case in HOI3 - like how a pocket or paradrop could be supplied via air transports through an airport. Airports and air transports have nothing to do with supply, only naval bases and naval convoys do, which means he who controls the ports controls the offensive - as it were. While this is certainly a basic simulation of historical realities, it doesn't give players many options. It's not about complexity or realism at this point, it's more about what is a player's recourse if they find themselves in an unfavorable situation. What can I do for my Offensive in Afghanistan that will help it push through? Well, nothing. I guess I have to invade India through a port like I'm 'supposed to', and not try to go over the Alps as it were.

Which is really just sad. There should be mechanics for clever solutions and unexpected tactics like that. I can understand why my offensive stalled, I'm invading over deserts and mountains, but there must be something I should be able to do about it while I'm preparing that will let me counter those problems. As people have mentioned, Red Ball Expresses would be an interesting mechanic. So would being able to paradrop supplies, or there being some distinction in the game between roads (muddy! difficult to upgrade in rough terrain! No autobanns through Siberia!) and railroads (what you SHOULD be using to supply troops going to Afghanistan or Siberia, but are easily interdicted and won't help movement speed of troops), or whatever.

While yes, it is unlikely for us to see an improvement in the logistical mechanics in HOI4, I think they're beyond necessary for the future health of the game. HOI4 has gotten a lot better than it was at launch, but even I - as a player of intermediary skill - am frustrated by how little I can actually do. If I want to build an autobann through conquered Europe, let me go do that. Make that different from when I want to build a railroad through Siberia to keep my troops from starving. Reward players for being clever and learning the game, don't make everyone play in the sandbox because some of us (of which I am one) have a bit of trouble mastering it.