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Dev Diary #91: Starbases

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary marks the start of dev diaries about a major upcoming update that we have named the 'Cherryh' update after science fiction author C.J. Cherryh. This is a major update that will include some very significant reworks to core gameplay systems, reworks that we have been prototyping and testing for some time. Right now, we cannot say anything about the exact nature of the update or anything at all about when it will be released, other than that it's far away. Normally, we wouldn't be doing dev diaries on an update at this stage at all, but there's simply so much to talk about that we have to start early. Cherryh will be a massive update, the largest one we've done to date, and there are many new and changed things to talk about in the coming weeks and months.

Please bear in mind that screenshots are from an early internal build and will contain art and interfaces that are WIP, non-final numbers, hot code and all that business.

Border Rework
We've never been entirely happy with the border system in Stellaris. While it generally works fine from a gameplay perspective, it has some rather quirky elements, such as being able to claim ownership of systems that you have never visited and indeed have no ability to reach and making it hard to tell what the exact border adjustments will be when planets are ceded or outposts are built. For this reason, we have decided to fundamentally rework the Stellaris border system to be based on solar system ownership. Each system will have a single owner, with complete control of the system, and borders are now simply a reflection of system ownership rather than a cause for it to change. In the Cherryh update, who owns a system is almost always based on the owner of the Starbase in said system.
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Starbases
A Starbase is a space station orbiting the star of said system. Each system can only have a single Starbase, but this can be anything from a remote Outpost to a massive Citadel with its own 'fleet' of orbiting defense stations. Starbases can be upgraded and specialized in a variety of ways (more details on this below), and is the primary means of determining system ownership. This means that wars are no longer fought for colonies controlling a nebulous blob of border that may not actually include the systems you really want, but rather for the exact systems you are interested in, and their starbases. This change of course would not be possible if we kept the wargoal system that exists in the live version of the game (just imagine the size of that wargoal list...), but more on that in a couple weeks.
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As Starbases now determine system ownership, it will no longer be possible to colonize or invade primitives outside your borders in the Cherryh update, but if a system contains a colony and no starbase, it will still count as being inside the borders of the colony's owner. These restrictions are moddable. Since Starbases now cost influence to construct (see below), we have removed the influence cost for colonizing and attacking primitives.

Starbases entirely replace the old system of Frontier Outposts.

Starbase Construction
With borders from colonies gone, empires now start only owning their home system, with a Starbase already constructed around their home star. To expand outside their home system, empires will have to construct Outposts in surveyed systems. An Outpost is a level 'zero' Starbase that has only very basic defenses and cannot support any buildings or modules, but also does not count towards your maximum Starbase Capacity (more on that below). Building an Outpost in a system costs influence, with the cost dependent on how far away the system is and how contigous it is to your empire as a whole, so 'snaking' or building starbases to ring in a certain part of space will be more influence-costly than simply expanding in a natural way. Starbases do not cost any influence upkeep, just an up-front cost when first building one in a system. As this change makes influence far more important in the early game, there will also be significant balance changes to empire influence generation in the Cherryh update.
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As an aside note, because we felt it made very little sense to have a home system with a fully built Starbase but no surveyed planet, empire home systems will now start surveyed, with a only slightly randomized amount of resources, and mining/research stations for some of those resources already in place. This should also help make player starts a little less random, ensuring that you are never *completely* without resources in your home system.
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Another thing we have been wary about when working on this is making sure that building the Outposts for each system does not simply feel like adding tedium. Right now, between the fact that which systems you choose to spend your limited influence on is an extremely important choice, and various tweaks and interface improvements we are making to ease up the process of developing your systems, we are confident that this will not be the case. We've also made it so that there are no entirely 'empty' systems (systems with no resources at all), as we discovered during playtesting that spending influence to claim such a system felt extremely unrewarding.

Upgrades and Capacity
Each empire will have a Starbase Capacity that represents the number of upgraded Starbases they can support. There are five levels of Starbases:
Outpost: A basic Outpost that exists only to claim a system. Costs no energy maintenance and does not count towards the Starbase Capacity, and cannot support buildings or modules. Outposts will also not show up in the outliner or galaxy map, as they are not meant to be interacted with at all unless it is to upgrade the Outpost to a Starport.
Starport: The first level of upgraded Starbase, available at the start of the game. Supports 2 modules and 1 building.
Starhold: The second level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 4 modules and 2 buildings.
Star Fortress: The third level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 6 modules and 3 buildings.
Citadel: The final level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 6 modules and 4 buildings.
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Regardless of the level of the Starbase, so long as it is not an Outpost, it will use 1 Starbase Capacity and will show up on the map and in the outliner. Overall, the design goal is for the vast majority of Starbases to be Outposts that you never have to manage, with a handful of upgraded Starbases that are powerful and critical assets for your empire. Going over your Starbase Capacity will result in sharply increased Starbase energy maintenance costs. Starbase Capacity can be increased through techs, traditions and other such means. You also gain a small amount of Starbase Capacity from the number of Pops in your empire. If you end up over Starbase Capacity for whatever reason, it is possible to downgrade upgraded Starbases back into Outposts. It is also possible to dismantle Starbases entirely and give up control of those systems, so long as they are not in a system with a colonized planet.
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Spaceports and Ship Construction
Starbases fully replace Spaceports in the role of system/planet defense and military ship construction. Spaceports still exist, but are no longer separate stations but rather an integrated part of the planet, and can only build civilian ships (Science Ships, Construction Ships and Colony Ships). To build military ships you will need a Starbase with at least one Shipyard module (more on that below). Starbases also replace Spaceports/Planets in that they are now the primary place to repair, upgrade, dock and rally ships, though civilian ships are also able to repair at planets.
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Modules and Buildings
All non-Outpost Starbases can support Modules and Buildings. Some of these are available from the start of the game, while others are unlocked by tech. Some modules and buildings are only available in certain systems, for example Trading Hubs can only be constructed in colonized systems.

Modules are the fundamental, external components of the Starbase, and determine its actual role. Module choices include Trading Hubs (for improving the economy of colonized systems), Anchorages (for Naval Capacity), Shipyards (for building ships, duh), and different kinds of defensive modules such as gun turrets and strike craft hangar bays that improve the Starbase's combat ability. There is no restrictions on the number of modules you can have of a certain type, besides the actual restriction on module slots itself. This means, for example, that you can have a Starbase entirely dedicated to Shipyards, capable of building up to 6 ships in parallell. Modules will also change the graphical appearance of the Starbase, so a dedicated Shipyard will look different from a massive defensive-oriented fortress brimming with dozens of gun turrets.
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Buildings represent internal structures inside the Starbase proper, and typically work to enhance modules or provide a global buff to the Starbase or system as a whole. Building choices include the Offworld Trading Company that increases the effectiveness of all Trading Hub modules, and the Listening Post that massively improves the Starbase's sensor range. You cannot have multiples of the same building on the same Starbase.
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Defenses
One of the fundamental problems with the military stations in the live version of the game is that they simply do not have enough firepower. Even with impressive hit points and shields, a station with at most a dozen or so guns simply cannot match the firepower of a whole fleet. An another issue is the ability to build multiple defense stations in the same system, meaning that no single station can be strong enough to match a fleet, as otherwise a system with several such stations will be effectively invulnerable. For this reason we decided to consolidate all system defenses into the Starbase mechanics, but not into a single station. Starbases come with a basic array of armaments and utilities (gun and missile turrets, shields and armor, etc), with the exact number of weapons based on the level of the Starbase. These are automatically kept up to date with technological advances, so your Starbases won't be fielding red lasers and basic deflectors when facing fleets armed with tachyon lances.
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Additionally, Starbases (with the exception of Outposts) have the ability to construct defense platforms to protect them. Constructed defense platforms will form a 'fleet' around the Starbase, supporting it with their own weapons and giving Starbases the firepower needed to engage entire fleets. The amount of defense platforms a Starbase can support may depend on factors such as starbase size and modules/buildings, technology, policies, and so on. The exact details here are still being worked on, but the design intent is that if you invest into them, Starbase defenses will scale against fleets across the whole game rather just being completely outpaced in the late game as military stations and spaceports currently are in the live version.
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One last note on Starbases: For a variety of reasons (among them to avoid something like the tedious rebuilding of Spaceports that happens at the end of wars) Starbases cannot be destroyed through conventional means. They can, however be disabled and even captured by enemies. More on this in a couple weeks.

... whew, this was a long one but that's all for today! Next week we'll continue talking about the Cherryh update, with the topic being Faster than Light travel...
 
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3%? Where did you get that number? Wouldn't it be 2%?

Unless they added on the base 10% per starbase as if they were planets, pops on starbases would be as efficient as extra pops on blank tiles on planets. The 36% is additive so if you have 9 starbases and (say) 20 planets of size 15+ you're adding 18% to 600% or more. So it's really a 3% increase.

When I said more cost. It doesn't mean it is multiplicative.

It would be worse for tall (only 2-3 planet and have lot of vassal etc..) gameplay and wouldn't affect empire that has hundred of planets. For example if I only had total two planets, capital don't count, and 40 population at max. It comes up to about 50% extra total cost. You are talking about adding 100 research point to a baseline tech that cost 600 from 900 to 1008. That is pretty significant penalty to tall gameplay. 600 * .18 = 108.

While an empire with 301 and 7000 will have total extra cost of 10,000%. Adding 18% to that is barely noticeable. All this does is encourage more blobbing which Stellaris doesn't need more of!


You are right it should be 2% I was reading the formula wrong. It doesn't invalid my point this would be a terrible change.
 
When I said more cost. It doesn't mean it is multiplicative.

It would be worse for tall (only 2-3 planet and have lot of vassal etc..) gameplay and wouldn't affect empire that has hundred of planets. For example if I only had total two planets, capital don't count, and 40 population at max. It comes up to about 50% extra total cost. You are talking about adding 100 research point to a baseline tech that cost 600 from 900 to 1008. That is pretty significant penalty to tall gameplay. 600 * .18 = 108.

While an empire with 301 and 7000 will have total extra cost of 10,000%. Adding 18% to that is barely noticeable. All this does is encourage more blobbing which Stellaris doesn't need more of!


You are right it should be 2% I was reading the formula wrong. It doesn't invalid my point this would be a terrible change.

The point is that they'd be more efficient than adding habitats if implemented in the obvious way (the pops count for penalties but not the starport itself), or ridiculously bad if implemented in the other obvious way (where starports count as planets with 2 tiles). Assuming the first, the starports would be like making your single planet bigger if you only had the one planet.

In your example you're raising tech costs by about 10% but your total population by 36%. Then again, for tall play (only) most of your resources come from space I guess, so you might still lose out?

OTOH it doesn't really add anything to make up for the complexity. Buildings that directly add resources without needing a pop involved work better all around.
 
The point is that they'd be more efficient than adding habitats if implemented in the obvious way (the pops count for penalties but not the starport itself), or ridiculously bad if implemented in the other obvious way (where starports count as planets with 2 tiles). Assuming the first, the starports would be like making your single planet bigger if you only had the one planet.

In your example you're raising tech costs by about 10% but your total population by 36%. Then again, for tall play (only) most of your resources come from space I guess, so you might still lose out?

OTOH it doesn't really add anything to make up for the complexity. Buildings that directly add resources without needing a pop involved work better all around.

Not really you can get a ridiculous research speed by playing small and get most of your resource through science/mining space stations.

In one game once I manage to unlock jump drive after only 88 years. No unbidden crisis just sheer luck rolls. Playing small and boost research speed did help a bit.
 
Border Rework
We've never been entirely happy with the border system in Stellaris. While it generally works fine from a gameplay perspective, it has some rather quirky elements, such as being able to claim ownership of systems that you have never visited and indeed have no ability to reach and making it hard to tell what the exact border adjustments will be when planets are ceded or outposts are built. For this reason, we have decided to fundamentally rework the Stellaris border system to be based on solar system ownership. Each system will have a single owner, with complete control of the system, and borders are now simply a reflection of system ownership rather than a cause for it to change. In the Cherryh update, who owns a system is almost always based on the owner of the Starbase in said system.

I may have missed something, but do you need to send a constructor to build the starbase? or is it just "click and claim" if you have the influence? Will we even start with a constructor if our home system is surveyed and stationed?

After the game I just played in 1.9, this is something I am really looking forward too. I actually found the uneven / random border growth from frontier outposts and colonies rather aggravating. Why should I have to claim a bunch of empty space around a star I want that is needed to jump between spiral arms? I'd rather just cliam the crossroads than the empty space between spiral arms.

Please give us something in the expansion planner that will allow us to claim systems we have surveyed, and sort them from lowest to highest on cost to claim, resource output, presence of anamolies or research projects, habitable planets, and "specials" indicating enclaves, primitives, terraforming candidates, and pre sentients.

An on another subject, could Precursor sites not have a base 5% failure risk, and be like presentients? I hate having 5/6 sites and realizing the last on must have been of of my 5% failures.
 
I may have missed something, but do you need to send a constructor to build the starbase? or is it just "click and claim" if you have the influence? Will we even start with a constructor if our home system is surveyed and stationed?

It's safe to assume you start with a constructor (something must've built the starbase and whatever stations you have in the system), as well as you needing to build outposts, as it would be weird as f*ck if you just used influence and said "that system is mine now" and an outpost appeared out of nowhere, aye?

After the game I just played in 1.9, this is something I am really looking forward too. I actually found the uneven / random border growth from frontier outposts and colonies rather aggravating. Why should I have to claim a bunch of empty space around a star I want that is needed to jump between spiral arms? I'd rather just cliam the crossroads than the empty space between spiral arms.

What I look forward to most with the border change is that now, you don't need to fear that you won't be able to reach distant systems with awesome planets because there're shit/no planets in between it and your current borders.
 
I want to thank you for making such an effort, following through on it in such a logical an reasonable manner and ultimately providing something very close to what one might expect in a galactic conflict milieu. I do have a couple of things to ask, which are in no way complaints, for I do understand that the limitations of programming and equipment do tie one's hands in ways often not foreseen by users.
* It seems to me that the accumulation of resource/funds is spread too easily throughout an empire.
- It is almost as if invisible wires run all the way back to the homeworld to ensure that everyone gets their fair share of energy, food, research points, materials, etc..
- In times of peace, I can see no need to dwell upon the minutia of transport and management of such things, but it would be a huge tool for smaller empires to us on larger ones
- Piracy, blockades, real and accurate warfare through attrition of resource
** If you truly wish to address the DOOM-STAX then you could eliminate the need to build them by increasing the need to have small force projections policing the shipping lanes for hired thugs and clandestine forces trying to undermine a powerful empire whilst building their own.

Management of logistics and the insurance of a continued and viable supply line is and will remain the fulcrum. I am certain that you have all considered this, so I would be interested to know if mechanics are preventing the inclusion of such elements in the game.

Thank you again for a powerful and engrossing experience.
 
Apologies if this has been asked before:

How do starbases work with primitives now? Do you need an outpost in a system to build an observation post? If you Enlighten primitives does your starbase in the system transfer to them? What if they achieve spaceflight on their own?

Heck, how does the Sanctuary system operate now?
 
Apologies if this has been asked before:

How do starbases work with primitives now? Do you need an outpost in a system to build an observation post? If you Enlighten primitives does your starbase in the system transfer to them? What if they achieve spaceflight on their own?

That's something I asked a long time ago, and I still haven't gotten an answer.

Heck, how does the Sanctuary system operate now?

I'm not sure what you're asking. Why would the Sanctuary change? At most it has or hasn't a starbase in the middle of the system and that's about it, right?
 
Can we still build separate military stations to support the system defense?

I... don't think we can? Not 100% sure, but I think system defense is meant to be focused on systems where you have an upgraded starport.
 
I... don't think we can? Not 100% sure, but I think system defense is meant to be focused on systems where you have an upgraded starport.

Look at the third screenshot. The button to build military stations is still there. I guess the meaning of starbase-surrounded military stations is that they don't need to keep a minimum distance.

Also, Wiz sayed that "starbases can build defense platforms" instead of "starbases can build military stations", so I guess defense stations and fortresses are still separately buildable?
 
Look at the third screenshot. The button to build military stations is still there. I guess the meaning of starbase-surrounded military stations is that they don't need to keep a minimum distance.

At first I thought that was the 'new' icon for outposts since the original outpost icon was gone (although I went back to check the picture once more and realized the outpost icon is different, probably a placeholder as construction ships aren't supposed to be able to bombard planets, not sure why they felt the need to change it at all though...)

Also, Wiz sayed that "starbases can build defense platforms" instead of "starbases can build military stations", so I guess defense stations and fortresses are still separately buildable?

Another good point, but since I'm not on the dev team nor have I heard anything about it, I can't give you a definite answer. But what you're saying does make sense.
 
Defense stations are designed in the ship designer and built like ships. Once done they launch on their own around their station and function - together with their starbase - like a stationary fleet.

You see in this video how it works: Dev Video
 
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Please make starbase to buildable outside of star vicinity, just like defense station. I want space station that located not near the sun, because space station built near sun seems...weird.
 
Please make starbase to buildable outside of star vicinity, just like defense station. I want space station that located not near the sun, because space station built near sun seems...weird.

They won't change it. One of the main reasons is to make it possible to build outposts from galaxy view. The moment you can choose to build it somewhere else, it would require you to go directly into the star system to do so - every single time. The devs said "this would be terrible".
 
Defense stations are designed in the ship designer and built like ships. Once done they launch on their own around their station and function - together with their starbase - like a stationary fleet.

You see in this video how it works: Dev Video

So where were the larger militart stations gone? Are they removed from the game?
 
So where were the larger militart stations gone? Are they removed from the game?

Yes. Each system is claimed by an outpost.

An outpost can be upgraded, but there is a limit to the number of how much you can own of these.

It goes -> Outpost -> Starhold -> Star Fortress -> Citadel -> Star Hive

Each stage can own a certain number of defensive platforms, but other than that there are no other defensive structures.
 
Yes. Each system is claimed by an outpost.

An outpost can be upgraded, but there is a limit to the number of how much you can own of these.

It goes -> Outpost -> Starhold -> Star Fortress -> Citadel -> Star Hive

Each stage can own a certain number of defensive platforms, but other than that there are no other defensive structures.

That's extremely stupid.
 
That's extremely stupid.

Can I ask why? Those larger military stations were not particularly useful, and the newer starports at their higher levels are likely going to end up to be a lot bigger and more intimidating looking with ringed defensive platforms than even the old fortress flowers were.
 
That's extremely stupid.

I don't know how it will play out in the end, but the fact remains that military stations aren't worth much right now.

They keep smaller ships away (something the upcoming outposts will also be able to do), but bigger fleets? Your strongest lategame stations were always outgunned even by mediocre fleets and FTL inhibitors only accelerated the stations defeat.

So I'm not really unhappy with the new system.