Blut und Schlacht (Blood and Battle): A Learner’s Saga

[Locklen]

Ch 15 Q1: Calling Allies when they are occupied. I was trying to avoid it, but the call for allies went out to Nuyanza as well, with Ingria currently occupied by the Pskovans. If he does respond, are his forces raised but slaughtered? Or raised inside his holding? Or are they just not raised? Just curious on what happens in-game. I take it they can be called one by one to avoid that? Any other key points or tips about calling vassal allies as a tribal leader welcome.

If they are under siege levies can still be raised, but it is indeed greatly dangerous, unless they far outnumber the siege forces. If its been occupied no troops can be raised from that holding.

Ch 15 Q2: Creating a New Duchy. Do I have this right? If Rurik creates it, there are no funnies about who it goes to – he can allocate it as he desires?

You get it, and can pass it out, but DON'T DO THAT until you are at least a king (at which point thats a pretty poor duchy in all fairness, so eventually it should be given out, but in the mean time is a nice way to qualify for a crown.

Ch 15 Q3: Housekeeping. I will need to set a guardian for the youngest child. At this stage, I don’t have the DLC that allows you to set a focus for the children, just choose a guardian. I’m thinking to pick as guardian the Norse courtier with the highest learning numbers/characteristics, but am open for other suggestions. With Eilif, under gavelkind is he likely to be made heir to anything else, or is it the smallest/weakest demesne county? Should I not bother developing it for now and just focus on the main four? And now that there is plenty of prestige to go around, should it be devoted to military buildings in the primary demesne counties? Any views on the best kind of buildings to start with in this situation?

If you are operating w/o conclave, I would suggest making Rurik himself the guardian/educator, as he has the level 4 martial education trait, and you can help influence your son, perhaps helping him get some of the positive traits you have (a brave educator means the child is more likely to get events for brave during education, etc.).

As for the prestige question, remember that if you spend it on buildings to go for level 2 of them, so save enough that you can upgrade whatever building(s) you make.

As for suggestions, I would suggest the training grounds building (upgrades to keep when you castle), as more levies are always welcome. Alternately you could put a weaponsmith in your capital (upgrades to training grounds ((castle version))), which will make what is currently your largest source of levies better.

Ch 15 Q4: How do you solve a problem like Helgi? Per the question posed by Rurik, what options and advice do the wise readership have (acknowledging there has been discussion about this before, but time has moved on and things are coming to a head. Rurik wants to sort out the way ahead before his time comes (as it could in combat at any time, but otherwise he probably has between 10 to maybe 15 years at the very most to see the succession stitched up as best he can. If Rus is the first major objective, should that take priority. And would a Slavic future be better for that? Or would Norse (reformed later if possible) be preferable? Any and all views sought.

I like the idea of letting him get scurvy and die.

Ch 15 Q5: Völva and Skald. Is the Völva the equivalent of the Court Physician in a Norse realm? I’ve not seen anything else that might look like that appointment. Does it work in a similar way, or does it bring entirely different benefits. And, also with the Skald, it this something I should be actively trying to source (ie looking for marriage partners for courtiers with the Mystic and Poet characteristics as a recruitment method, or some such)? Again, facts, views and hints most welcome.

Court physician requires The Reapers Due (and its accompanying disease changes). Volva and Skald are mostly useful to get opinion benefits from the recipients (skald has a large opinion bonus, while the volva requirements fit well with a female temple holder).

 

[Bullfilter]

A quick reply for now on this point:

Court physician requires The Reapers Due (and its accompanying disease changes). Volva and Skald are mostly useful to get opinion benefits from the recipients (skald has a large opinion bonus, while the volva requirements fit well with a female temple holder).

Ah, that makes sense. I didn't get Reaper's Due as I didn't want everything else that came with it (not yet, anyway, while still so new to the game). Maybe some day.

 

[Idhrendur]

I have no answers at all this time. Sorry!

 

[Bullfilter]

I have no answers at all this time. Sorry!

No matter, your readership is gift enough!

 

[Rufy_King]

Ch 15 Q1: Calling Allies when they are occupied. I was trying to avoid it, but the call for allies went out to Nuyanza as well, with Ingria currently occupied by the Pskovans. If he does respond, are his forces raised but slaughtered? Or raised inside his holding? Or are they just not raised? Just curious on what happens in-game. I take it they can be called one by one to avoid that? Any other key points or tips about calling vassal allies as a tribal leader welcome.

If the territory of the ally is occupied, there will be no troops coming to your help. If he is being sieged, he will probably either jon only by name or try to get out of the siege only to get his troops killed. Always nice.

Ch 15 Q2: Creating a New Duchy. Do I have this right? If Rurik creates it, there are no funnies about who it goes to – he can allocate it as he desires?

Before his death, yes, but why would he give it to anyone before turning into king, since that would only give independence to the new Duke. After his death, it could cause the realm to split. So just don't do it.

Ch 15 Q3: Housekeeping. I will need to set a guardian for the youngest child. At this stage, I don’t have the DLC that allows you to set a focus for the children, just choose a guardian. I’m thinking to pick as guardian the Norse courtier with the highest learning numbers/characteristics, but am open for other suggestions. With Eilif, under gavelkind is he likely to be made heir to anything else, or is it the smallest/weakest demesne county? Should I not bother developing it for now and just focus on the main four? And now that there is plenty of prestige to go around, should it be devoted to military buildings in the primary demesne counties? Any views on the best kind of buildings to start with in this situation?

First: choose the type of character you want the boy to become. Soldier, diplomat, Intrigue expert... (Fun fact: no one wants a learning focused heir. Kinda useless most of the time if you want my opinion).
Second: Choose the best character with the trait.
Third: Hope the boy is a good listener.
Of course if you want a soldier you can just educate the boy yourself so you can pick every good trait.

Ch 15 Q4: How do you solve a problem like Helgi? Per the question posed by Rurik, what options and advice do the wise readership have (acknowledging there has been discussion about this before, but time has moved on and things are coming to a head. Rurik wants to sort out the way ahead before his time comes (as it could in combat at any time, but otherwise he probably has between 10 to maybe 15 years at the very most to see the succession stitched up as best he can. If Rus is the first major objective, should that take priority. And would a Slavic future be better for that? Or would Norse (reformed later if possible) be preferable? Any and all views sought.

Well option one would be to try and imprison Helgi. The downside of this is that he could straight up run away, not to mention that everyone would call you a terrible father and lose respect for you. In a society where respect is everything, that is BAD.
Option two is to give him money and titles until he is ready to listen to his father yelling in his face that Perun can't beat Odin in armwrestling, let alone as a deity.
Option three is sending your Godi to try and convert your province, which has a chance to convert one of your courtiers. Since your son IS one of your courtiers, he can be converted.
Option four is having your son remain a slavic pagan but turning your capital in a Norse county. That will allow him to change religion once he raises to power. BUT this is gamey, so make sure you have a valid explanation for this.
Option five is turning into Slavic Pagan which is... well, I guess it will make everything simpler in the long run, but I doubt Rurik would be happy, being a zealous Norse. That, and I like Odin more then Perun.

Ch 15 Q5: Völva and Skald. Is the Völva the equivalent of the Court Physician in a Norse realm? I’ve not seen anything else that might look like that appointment. Does it work in a similar way, or does it bring entirely different benefits? And, also with the Skald, it this something I should be actively trying to source (ie looking for marriage partners for courtiers with the Mystic and Poet characteristics as a recruitment method, or some such)? Again, facts, views and hints most welcome.

They are just normal titles that you can give to a courtier/vassal to keep him happy. I don't know if there is really any event at all about them, and I somehow doubt it, because from my experience those titles tend to be pointless.
Except the cupbearer, that one is dangerous.

 

[Bullfilter]

Quick initial reply with a few clarifications:

First: choose the type of character you want the boy to become. Soldier, diplomat, Intrigue expert... (Fun fact: no one wants a learning focused heir. Kinda useless most of the time if you want my opinion).
Second: Choose the best character with the trait.
Third: Hope the boy is a good listener.
Of course if you want a soldier you can just educate the boy yourself so you can pick every good trait.

It’s the youngest daughter that now needs the guardian (the son has a military type as guardian at present). Hence, as she won’t be an heir ...

Option three is sending your Godi to try and convert your province, which has a chance to convert one of your courtiers. Since your son IS one of your courtiers, he can be converted.

Yes, the Godi has been trying to convert the capital county for a few years now, without any success yet. Getting Helgi to convert that way would be a bonus - but as the saying goes, “hope is not a strategy”, so I’ll keep looking at the other options.

 

[Nuada Airgetlám]

Lots of options above. Just popping my head in, catching up.

 

[Bullfilter]

Lots of options above. Just popping my head in, catching up.

And very appreciated it is

 

[Saxon125]

No idea how many chapters I have missed, but looks good so far.

 

[Bullfilter]

No idea how many chapters I have missed, but looks good so far.

Thanks. Contents has chapters only, threadmarks include 'Things' and similar consolidated reader feedback if interested. Otherwise, just happy you're reading it!

 

[Bullfilter]

The Sixth Thing of Rurik's Reign - the Great Thing of July 873

OK, it has been two weeks since Rurik went on some travel and rest after the last arduous campaign [ie, as advertised, I was away for a work trip, then had a week of holidays at the coast - no Wi-Fi or access to my main computer! ]. So, first the Lawspeaker must convene a Great Thing, spanning all the questions arising from the conduct and then aftermath of the eventful War of Conquest on Pskov. [My first proper war ever in CK2 - the previous walkovers and raids don't really count .] It may have been small by the grand standards many of you will have been used to, but it was definitely a learning experience for me. And my generous commentAARs have helped me with that too .

So, as mentioned in the previous chapters, the war was played through before I wrote Chapter 15, so you will see I picked up some lessons as I went, while there are more to be confirmed or teased out below.

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ​

Part 1 - Chapter 14

Ch 14 Learning Point 1: Devout Warriors. Well, as I was playing on from here and wanted to quickly find out what the hell had happened here, I did a quick search and found this info in a dev diary and a thread comment: “First of all, Defensive Pagans now have the ability to summon bands of Devout Warriors if they are the primary defender against an enemy of a different religion at the cost of 200 piety. Overall this is rather like the Raise Tribal Army decision and gives Defensive Pagans some extra punch when attacked.” Looks like it’s 2,000 troops per 200 Piety, in a defensive war. And you can see Dobrozhir, who started with 227 Piety, now has 26, plus 2,000 event spawned troops. I’m glad he didn’t have 400+ piety!!

Ah yes, that can turn out to be a problem if you find a devoted pagan. Well, sooner or later it was going to happen.

Yep, defensive pagans can raise 2000 soldiers for 200 piety when fighting a defensive war against an enemy of a different faith. The defensive pagan religions are Romuva, Slavic, Suomenusko and West African (as opposed to the offensive pagan religions Germanic, Tengri and Aztec). Anyone who isn't an unreformed non-Germanic pagan instead has the opportunity to hire holy orders for a large amount of piety (Germanic nations can form a Germanic holy order in 920), which work like mercenaries except you don't have to pay them. Especially Catholic nations can be difficult to invade late game as they have access to several holy orders.

Defensive pagans can raise devout warriors several times, so if they e.g. had 1000 piety they could immediately raise 10000 soldiers. You should therefore always look at the piety level of Romuva/Slavic/Suomenusku/West African countries before invading them. You should naturally also look at their prestige level as they can raise 2500 soldiers for 500 prestige just like Germanic countries can.

Hope this provides fair warning to others on what to check for before blithely setting off to conquer apparently weak defensive pagan neighbours!

Ch 14 Q1: Fleets at Port. Is that right? If a fleet is in port when a province is taken, is it captured or destroyed? Or does it automatically escape to sea?

If I am not wrong, but I admit I'm not sure this time around, your fleet is safe until the enemy raids the city. I could be wrong and it could be safe even then, but I don't want to say it like I'm sure. Honestly CK2 has so little interactions about ships that I tend to forget about them completely. In your situation however I dare say that the problem is that you have to pay the ships, so if I was you I would leave them in the port.

Escape to sea.

Thanks Rufy_King and Locklen: at some point I'm sure I'll confirm via direct experience!

Ch 14 Q2: Looter Toggle (again). Another minor learning point: when I couldn’t get the forces to merge at first, I discovered the looting toggle was still on with Rurik’s Raiders, and it was apparently preventing the merger. I switched it off and that allowed them to merge as usual. That raiding toggle is no end of arcane trouble for a CK2 neophyte! So, I also assume had I proceeded to move that force into Pskov, it would have been treated as a raiding instead of an invading force – until such time as I discovered and changed it?

Yes, if the raiding toggle is on you would have found yourself raiding the province. Not only that, but you wouldn't even be able to change it back once you are outside of your own land, you would have to return to your closest county. Basically the opposite of what happened to you last time.

Thanks, thought so. Very easy to overlook that one, especially if its been a while since you last raided.

Ch 14 Q3: Morale. OK, it was only later that I noticed a few things I didn’t at the time. The first is this issue of morale. Before they set out (after they were called up) this new army seemed to have a full green bar of morale (on the main map icon, anyway). Yet now, as I look back on the screenshot, I see the morale of Helgi’s and Sverker’s wings are suddenly near zero, and of Rurik’s only about 50%. I wonder what has caused this? Is it specific to the commander and residual from the battle just fought – and lost? But then, given Helgi has only just been assigned, that should not apply to him. If it is to the troops, why is it suddenly so low? Is there some ramping-up period for the mercs to come to full morale that I didn’t notice at the time? Or something about changing commanders on them (which again I hadn’t noticed before)? Any knowledge or pointers on this aspect, or what the causes of this lowered morale might have been, very welcome.

It's because of the Mercenary troop, they start with very low morale and they gain it over time, much like vassals. The reason why you personally were at about 50% is that your troops included some that you had raised at the beginning of the war and that therefore had gained morale while marching against your opponent, while your other commanders only had newly raised merc. Morale is I dare say one of the main points of the battle, so always make sure that it's at one hundred percent or very close to it when you are facing an enemy that is equal or stronger to you.

Mercs are indeed raised at low morale, and need time after hiring to get organized/whatever.

Thanks for confirming. Another point for the hapless CK2 newbie (ie yours truly) to remember.

Ch 14 Q4: Field Battles. Bearing in mind the rest of this campaign has been fought out but still seeking to learn as much from this opening six months few months as possible, I’ll pose a few other questions (to add to those mentioned above in the commentary and in Rurik’s reflections. Are there other factors here I’ve ignored or should have looked at more closely? Should I next time record some of the ‘mouse-over’ battle stats that come up for any pointers about what has gone on – or is that really just pre-ordained and there for flavour? Any pertinent tips or tactics welcome.

So, I will analyze the battles to try and see what went wrong.

First Battle of Ingria Tribe:
Now, the battle was on a plain ground, with no boosts for neither attackers or defenders. As you can see, the enemy has a very strong right flank, while you have an equally distributed force, with a main centre. This is usually good, but since your enemy has such a gigantic flank compared to yours, it means you would have needed the flank that was opposing it to manage to resist until the end of the fight. You may notice that your commander was losing far more men then is opponent, and this, united with his numerical disadvantage, led to a failure in stalling. You have to remember that depending on the commanders traits, they also may be more useful on a flank or in the centre. In this case I dare say his flank commander was probably good for his position, while your probably was relaying only on his martial skill.

Bottom line, when the enemy centre block you found yourself with a strong enemy on the most dangerous side, with no defence on that front because it had already been routed. Since the AI didn't lose time in attacking the destroyed flank, focusing instead on attacking your now weakened centre, you found yourself overwelmed and ultimately defeated.

The best course of action in this case was probably to order a retreat as soon as your flank fell, or even better close before that. You can do that by selecting the army and moving it to another location. After moving to a safer place, maybe on the other side of the river, I would have reorganized my army to either be able to face his flank or with a stronger center. It would still be a defeat, and I think you would have lost a few more men, but you would have saved time and your army was going to be closer, ready to join with the merc.

I guess you were also a bit unlucky, had you managed to push through a bit sooner you would have won, what I am saying above comes from my past experience with very strong flanks in equally strong armies, maybe others can give you some advise that doesn't involve retreat, but personally that's what I would have done when realizing my flank was outmatched.

Thanks, yes that first time the enemy's deployment caught me off guard, and then I didn't really account for it in the second battle, though I should have anticipated it by then.

Second Battle of Ingria Tribe.

Now here your biggest mistake was crossing the river. That is something you don't want to do even with a bigger army, let alone when you are equally matched. Crossing the river gave you a malus (that you can see both before the battle, near the crossed swords, and during the battle, although there is too late). This gave a boost to the defenders (which are the guys waiting for you on the other side of the river) and meant you were starting already with a disadvantage. After that however another, totally different problem, was that your son pursued the defeated flank instead of heading to the other, stronger flank, while you, the center, moved against it. This has to do mostly with the character traits, and honestly there is little to do about.

If I were you, in this case, first I would have crossed the river in another point, to be evenly matched instead of at disadvantage. Second thing, I would have either waited for the defeated force (yes, it's a painful wait, but it was necessary in my opinion). If instead I needed to charge against my enemy, it would have been wiser to rearrange the troops to match the stronger flank, or by making the center itself stronger. You already found out a long time ago how to do that.

Keep in mind, when the forces are evenly matched, something can always go wrong, I think this second battle is the best proof of it. The suggestions above are only to try and make your chances of success higher.

Yes, I certainly learned that one (and you'll see it came out in the second half of the campaign) and I already should have known it. But I was too quick to try to retake Ingria and overconfident as well.

BUT, I also want to give you another kind of suggestion, the "How do I win a war against a fairly strong enemy that only has one province.

You don't have to fight him at all. Let him try and seize Ingria, while he is at it, you can easily attack his county. Once you have conquered the whole province, the war is over and you have won without any battle. This can really turn out useful, if the enemy goes for the offensive first like the Chief did. You could have easily taken your men, sieged his tribal holdings while he was away, and won.

Wise words. I ended up pretty much (though not exactly) doing this in the second half of the campaign. At the end, I just let him run and assaulted his last stronghold to end it quickly.

What @Rufy_King said. I'll echo the suggestion to let him at one of your undefended provinces while you siege down his holding. A tactical draw (1 for 1 provinces occupied) but a strategic victory wherein he holds one of your 6 provinces while you control all of his lands. The best victory is a bloodless one.

Yeah, defensive pagans are a pain. Live and learn; your levies will recover!

Basics of attack: High morale, at least a slight numerical advantage, never attack into mountains, across a river/channel, and unload your armies from your boats where their armies are not at.

You can ignore all of those with a massive numerical advantage (doomstack). But you aren't there yet

All noted.

500 prestige yet? It may be time for the Norse Tribal Army snowball war for Rus!

Edit: I may as well define that. A Tribal Army as you noticed, gives you 2500 men for 500 prestige. They disappear the day after a truce, assuming that you are then fully at peace. So if you use one to kick the snot out of a one-county loser, pause the game when he surrenders (before clicking on the surrender message), accept the surrender, and declare war against some other weakling before 1 day has passed, the Tribal Army does not disband because you are still at war and the disband condition trigger (At Peace) isn't met.

This, in conjunction with the "Become King of Rus" ambition, which gives you unlimited use of the "Subjugation" CB within the de jure Kingdom of Rus, let' you conquer the Kingdom in just a few years. With each war you win, you earn prestige, netting more Tribal Armies, until you run out of targets. Then I usually declare Tributary wars until my borders are secure and go raiding to build up my suddenly massive desmesne.

It's kind of gamey, but it's loads of fun.

My first use of the prestige has been to fulfil the Exalted ambition. I'll be looking to very likely now to take up the Kingdom of Rus ambition. But I'd wanted to also get some of my military buildings done, which all need prestige too. I will need to consider whether to set 500 aside for the Tribal army (I don't think it's too gamey at all: if they've signed on for conquest, then as long as there's fighting to be done, they should be able to stay on. Use 'em or lose 'em!

Further edit: I learned the power of this tactic from the excellent opening character of the "Many AAR One" AAR on these forums. I really enjoyed that AAR, the first couple of pages really showcased the power of Tribal Armies. I'm sure there are better examples out there for beginners to learn from, but the guy went from a single county in Norway to passing out 3 or 4 Kingdom titles to his kids when he died via gavelkind, IIRC. Really fantastic AAR start to finish.

Will have a look for it when I can find the time!

Don't neglect the impact of morale. When it breaks, that flank goes into the "pursuit" phase which allows the victor to inflict extra casualties to the broken army (this is especially dangerous against cavalry heavy armies). Based on where the battle was fought, if you crossed the nearby river to enter battle, that is a penalty. If possible, try to approach the enemy away from rivers.

Indeed, as above, noted.

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ​

Part 2 - Chapter 15

Ch 15 Q1: Calling Allies when they are occupied. I was trying to avoid it, but the call for allies went out to Nuyanza as well, with Ingria currently occupied by the Pskovans. If he does respond, are his forces raised but slaughtered? Or raised inside his holding? Or are they just not raised? Just curious on what happens in-game. I take it they can be called one by one to avoid that? Any other key points or tips about calling vassal allies as a tribal leader welcome.

1. Allies: pretty sure AI will try and avoid raising them in an occupied area unless there is some sort of parity in numbers. Don’t quote me on that though.

1. If they are under siege levies can still be raised, but it is indeed greatly dangerous, unless they far outnumber the siege forces. If its been occupied no troops can be raised from that holding.

1. If the territory of the ally is occupied, there will be no troops coming to your help. If he is being sieged, he will probably either jon only by name or try to get out of the siege only to get his troops killed. Always nice.

OK. Will just have to keep an eye on it and see what happens in the future and see if I can figure out how to call them one by one - I'm hoping it's just a matter of having a careful look through the interfaces.

Ch 15 Q2: Creating a New Duchy. Do I have this right? If Rurik creates it, there are no funnies about who it goes to – he can allocate it as he desires?

2. If you create a new Duchy you can give it to whom you will but they must already have a county level title.

2. If you create the duchy, it is yours to do with as you please. Keep or award to a suitable vassal. HOWEVER. Do NOT give it away until you are a true King with a Kingdom level title. As a Duke, granting a Duchy to a vassal also grants them independence. A Duke cares not for the opinions of another Duke, only a King.

2. You get it, and can pass it out, but DON'T DO THAT until you are at least a king (at which point thats a pretty poor duchy in all fairness, so eventually it should be given out, but in the mean time is a nice way to qualify for a crown.

Before his death, yes, but why would he give it to anyone before turning into king, since that would only give independence to the new Duke. After his death, it could cause the realm to split. So just don't do it.

Excellent advice all. My intention for the foreseeable future was for Rurik to hold it himself. Now I will definitely makes sure he does not allocate any duchies he gets before he (or a successor) becomes King of the Rus!

Ch 15 Q3: Housekeeping. I will need to set a guardian for the youngest child. At this stage, I don’t have the DLC that allows you to set a focus for the children, just choose a guardian. I’m thinking to pick as guardian the Norse courtier with the highest learning numbers/characteristics, but am open for other suggestions. With Eilif, under gavelkind is he likely to be made heir to anything else, or is it the smallest/weakest demesne county? Should I not bother developing it for now and just focus on the main four? And now that there is plenty of prestige to go around, should it be devoted to military buildings in the primary demesne counties? Any views on the best kind of buildings to start with in this situation?

3. Choosing a guardian for your youngest. I generally wait until they are 6 when you get reminded anyway. With the new DLCs focus is important. It kinda depends what kind of guy you want him to be. I usually split between martial or diplomatic for eldest and then learning for next with a view to maybe a career in the church (or your equivalent). For the youngest I focus on intrigue. Clearly those are just my preferences.

I only have selected DLC at this stage (gradually adding if I think I'm ready for it and if it is 'well-reviewed' re the 'side-effects'). I now have the one that allows me to select a focus for my player character (I think that was Way of Life), but not to select it for others/children etc. Once I'm more familiar with the game and want to add some more variation/challenge, I'll add more DLC.

3. If you are operating w/o conclave, I would suggest making Rurik himself the guardian/educator, as he has the level 4 martial education trait, and you can help influence your son, perhaps helping him get some of the positive traits you have (a brave educator means the child is more likely to get events for brave during education, etc.).

As for the prestige question, remember that if you spend it on buildings to go for level 2 of them, so save enough that you can upgrade whatever building(s) you make.

As for suggestions, I would suggest the training grounds building (upgrades to keep when you castle), as more levies are always welcome. Alternately you could put a weaponsmith in your capital (upgrades to training grounds ((castle version))), which will make what is currently your largest source of levies better.

Thanks, will drill into these aspects on the next session of play-through.

First: choose the type of character you want the boy to become. Soldier, diplomat, Intrigue expert... (Fun fact: no one wants a learning focused heir. Kinda useless most of the time if you want my opinion).
Second: Choose the best character with the trait.
Third: Hope the boy is a good listener.
Of course if you want a soldier you can just educate the boy yourself so you can pick every good trait.

Thanks.

Ch 15 Q4: How do you solve a problem like Helgi? Per the question posed by Rurik, what options and advice do the wise readership have (acknowledging there has been discussion about this before, but time has moved on and things are coming to a head. Rurik wants to sort out the way ahead before his time comes (as it could in combat at any time, but otherwise he probably has between 10 to maybe 15 years at the very most to see the succession stitched up as best he can. If Rus is the first major objective, should that take priority. And would a Slavic future be better for that? Or would Norse (reformed later if possible) be preferable? Any and all views sought.

4. With Helgi have you actually tried to get him to change religion? If not your idea about putting him in harms way is a good one and refocus on the next son who is of the faith. Or as and when you have a replacement you can imprison and execute him. Depends how bloodthirsty you want to be really.

As answered previously, I did see if my current laws would allow me to get him to change religion earlier: can’t do that until Norse is reformed. Then I guess he'd have to agree (I suppose I could then purge him if he didn't).

4. If Helgi is your oldest, Slavic son and you don't want that to inherit, make him a commander of some small levy and put him to sea until he dies of scurvy.

Yes, that or getting him to keep fighting till he gets killed in combat!

Edit: pick an educator with the correct skill set (ie if you want a God of War his educator needs a Martial education himself) and the highest level (Brilliant Strategist) as the education of heirs is determined in that way pre-Conclave. They get the educators education focus, and the better the educator, the more likely the child will be good at it as well.

Alas, Helgi is too old for that now. All the younger children are firmly Norse Germanic with guardians of the same background.

4. I like the idea of letting him get scurvy and die.

Well option one would be to try and imprison Helgi. The downside of this is that he could straight up run away, not to mention that everyone would call you a terrible father and lose respect for you. In a society where respect is everything, that is BAD.

Option two is to give him money and titles until he is ready to listen to his father yelling in his face that Perun can't beat Odin in armwrestling, let alone as a deity.
Option three is sending your Godi to try and convert your province, which has a chance to convert one of your courtiers. Since your son IS one of your courtiers, he can be converted.
Option four is having your son remain a slavic pagan but turning your capital in a Norse county. That will allow him to change religion once he raises to power. BUT this is gamey, so make sure you have a valid explanation for this.
Option five is turning into Slavic Pagan which is... well, I guess it will make everything simpler in the long run, but I doubt Rurik would be happy, being a zealous Norse. That, and I like Odin more then Perun.

As mentioned in a previous reply: Option2: It’s the youngest daughter that now needs the guardian (the son has a military type as guardian at present). Hence, as she won’t be an heir ... and Option 3: yes, the Godi has been trying to convert the capital county for a few years now, without any success yet. Getting Helgi to convert that way would be a bonus - but as the saying goes, “hope is not a strategy”, so I’ll keep looking at the other options. As for the gaminess of converting after he succeeds - maybe, maybe not. It would be easy enough to create a storyline to support it. Will cross the bridge if it is come to!

Ch 15 Q5: Völva and Skald. Is the Völva the equivalent of the Court Physician in a Norse realm? I’ve not seen anything else that might look like that appointment. Does it work in a similar way, or does it bring entirely different benefits. And, also with the Skald, it this something I should be actively trying to source (ie looking for marriage partners for courtiers with the Mystic and Poet characteristics as a recruitment method, or some such)? Again, facts, views and hints most welcome.

5. Court physician requires The Reapers Due (and its accompanying disease changes). Volva and Skald are mostly useful to get opinion benefits from the recipients (skald has a large opinion bonus, while the volva requirements fit well with a female temple holder).

They are just normal titles that you can give to a courtier/vassal to keep him happy. I don't know if there is really any event at all about them, and I somehow doubt it, because from my experience those titles tend to be pointless.

Except the cupbearer, that one is dangerous.

All clear now, thanks. Am holding off on Reaper's Due for now. May get more DLC for my next game - once I know how to play it with this configuration!

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ​

Back now to play a bit of the game and seek out the next translation of the Chronicles from the Rurikid scroll trove of Gumarich der Schreiber!

 

[Rufy_King]

I think you missed Locklen and mine answers in the second half, at least for the huge reply part. Locklen in particular is the one that answered first the Volva/Skald question.

Nonetheless, this was a good learning experience, can't wait for more.

 

[Bullfilter]

I think you missed Locklen and mine answers in the second half, at least for the huge reply part. Locklen in particular is the one that answered first the Volva/Skald question.

Nonetheless, this was a good learning experience, can't wait for more.

Yes, I posted early by accident (hadn't flipped to the next page) but have now corrected it. Very complicated when you have that many quotes divided up and listed by answer!

 

[Asantahene]

Welcome back O king!

 

[Bullfilter]

Chapter 16: Ambition (18 July – 16 August 873)

AuthAAR’s Note

After some long and epic episodes, this one will be a bit shorter and pose some strategic questions for the important next military steps in the rise – or fall – of the Rurikid Dynasty.

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ​

18 July 873

Gumarich der Schreiber made a very significant note in his chronicle of Rurik’s reign on a hot summer’s day in July 873 CE:

Flush with his hard-won victory over the Pskovan’s and their fanatical religious warrior horde, our mighty Konungr Rurik regarded the future of the realm and his glorious place in its history. He now bathed in the prestige of his recent raids and victories, and was acclaimed Exalted among men. He proclaimed his next and greatest ambition was to be crowned King of Rus. The sword of conquest and subjugation would bring unity to the bevy of small chiefdoms that surrounded Holmgarðr.

“Weighty issues of religion must wait for now”, our Konungr proclaimed. “Though the achievement of one temporal ambition may prove the stepping stone to another spiritual one. For now, I will devote my life to uniting the Rus under a single Norse banner – that of House Rurikid!”

Murmurings around court of the great religious question of the clash between the Norse and Slavic Gods continue, but remain for now a slow-boiling pot. The question of Prince-Marshal Helgi and his cleaving to the Slavic Gods of his mother over the Norse Gods of his father is left open. For now, it is the Gods of War – whatever their derivation – that captivate the realm and its chiefs. It is the one thing that may keep them united! For a time, mayhap.​

These words were recorded as Rurik made the journey back from Pskov to the capital county of Holmgarðr and his high seat there in Nygarðr. As he travelled back, the Lawspeaker reported the findings of the sixth Thing of his reign. It became known at the time as a Great Thing [] because of the events which preceded and would follow it. Its deliberations have already been published as an annex to this chronicle.

Rurik thought on his recent experiences and the advice he had received, contemplated his next possible targets, then sent orders ahead for various major works to be done and for ‘housekeeping’ tasks to be taken care of.

His first thoughts were of those areas that might next be enfolded into the de jure ambition of Rus. Thoughts turned to the Finnish High Chief Karhu of Veps. Among his lands he held the county of Zaozerye, a part of de jure Rus. With its river and lake boundaries to the north, it would also be a very powerful strategic bulwark against any future encroachments from that direction, linking with and protecting Ladoga to its west. Rurik had no need to subjugate the whole of Karhu’s realm; he just wanted the province that formed the northernmost point of the Rus claim. A simple conquest of that province would be sufficient.

Karhu himself is an interesting mix: kind, patient and chaste. But also paranoid and deceitful! Perhaps he should be given something to be genuinely paranoid about! He is no warrior himself and commands neither the troops, coin, prestige or piety to summon a mighty host.

The forests and waterways of modern-day Zaozerye. Perhaps not very different to those of a thousand years ago.​

Another option in this vicinity is the High Chiefdom of Chud. Both these provinces fall within the Rus claim. High Chief Miemo II of Chud, another Finn, is also an underwhelming character. To help speed the formation of Rus, a war of subjugation could bring him forcibly into the realm. Rurik can manage plenty of vassals but is nearing (for now anyway) his limit of holdings. Miemo’s troop strength is even lower than Karhu’s, while his coin, prestige and piety are also meagre. Neither chief has any known major alliances that might cause problems.

​

Spoiler: Ch 16 Q1: Subjugation of Peers

Ch 16 Q1: Subjugation of Peers. OK, following up on previous questions re not investing other vassals with Dukedoms (and equivalents), my assumption here is that if I win a war of subjugation and bring Miemo in as a High Chief, he still ranks below and would be a subordinate to Rurik, as the Petty King of Holmgarðr. Because he is a High Chief and I have never exercised this mechanic before, I’m just trying to avoid another of those newbie faux pas.

The third main option is, with most of the coin spent and much prestige about to be used in important endeavours, to commence another raid. This would gain more funds and prestige to fuel Rurik's ambition of Rus. But if it took as long as the last expedition, precious time that could have been used in conquest and expansion may be frittered away on foreign shores, noble as the raiding pursuit is.

Of course, Rurik would like to both conquer and raid simultaneously. One led by him, another perhaps by Helgi. But he suspects the only way to achieve both at once would be to invest much of his prestige in gathering a tribal horde of his own and splitting his efforts. Something of a risk, but one he is willing to contemplate. He would think harder on this once he returned to his capital.

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ​

As Rurik returned to his tent at the end of the day, young Edla waited to ‘entertain’ him. It remained good to be the King! And Queen Ingjerðr was so far off, in distant Constantinople! An excerpt from Edla's secret diary, discovered in the Rurikid scroll trove, has been used for this dramatic reconstruction.

“Edla, my sweetling,” says Rurik during a break from their lovemaking, “I have meant to ask you – what is it about the arrangement with Alfgeir that displeases you so much that you came to me to seek your pleasures?”

“Rurik, you know the wedding arrangement was made sight unseen and not by me,” replied Edla. “I know it was my duty and he is a prominent officeholder as Steward of the Realm. I do not begrudge my fate. But he is, well … let me be blunt. He is only half the man you are, in the ways that matter.”​

“I detest him. It’s not hate, I just cannot stand him. And he has caused me great personal affront, in a matter I care not to discuss any further.”​

This last causes her to blush intensely. Rurik knows enough not to ask further – and is not really that interested in the gory details anyway. Alfgeir is good at his job and loyal to him, and Rurik’s regard for his Steward is polite, if not effusive. So be it – after all, he is enjoying the consequences of the pair’s falling out!

“I must say my dear, you seem sadder and a little less, ah, energetic than usual. Are you well?”

“I must admit I have not been feeling my best of late,” Edla manages, before a coughing fit seizes her, to prove the truth of her words. “I’m sure it is just a summer ague or some such. Let us talk of other things. My young Ingrid – the only thing of worth Alfgeir has given me in our years of marriage – is now four. She is my treasure. Your Iliana is but a babe – to whom will you entrust her guardianship while you are at war and the Queen far away?”

Rurik is partly reassured – Edla is young and strong, with a proud bearing and a kind heart. Surely Freya will smile upon her. He permits the not-so-subtle change of topic.

“I have entrusted her to the teachings of Godi þorolfr. He is the most learned man in the realm and I want Iliana to learn the ways of the True Norse Gods. I know it is a dream, but I would love to see her become a great Mystic and even the realm’s Völva one day!”
​

“Oh, a most admirable ambition for her, my love! And tell me, I hear you have some grand building plans in mind. You know I find such things fascinating – the supervising of such work is one thing I do find interesting about Alfgeir’s work. I wish I could be the one doing the supervising!” Edla smiles weakly. She really isn’t feeling that well and is clearly attempting to cheer herself up and put on a brave front for Rurik.

“Well, you will be very interested in the two great projects I have planned for Holmgarðr and Ladoga then!” says Rurik warmly, playing along with Edla’s touching charade, while remaining a little worried about her. "Here, have a look at these dispatches and plans I have had prepared.”​

“Magnificent, the realm has never seen anything like them before! They will surely bring your grand dream of Rus a step closer, once they are completed. I will keep a close eye on the Holmgarðr construction – even if it means seeing my husband more than I would like.” A spark of excitement appears in Edla’s eye. “And siege engines? Any plans for them? Your raids and conquests would surely benefit from those – the realm is poor in that regard. I have heard great tales of the engines the Byzantines are able to construct.”

“Well, my dear young Edla – you have successfully laid siege to my heart. You will surely like what I have in mind in for the realm's siege abilities. It is indeed my next goal in our military development. We must get better at our siege work if we are to prosper and dominate. But you must rest now – take care of yourself. The summer agues can turn nasty if ignored.”​

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ​

2 August 873

Dispatches arrive from Rurik’s capital of Nygarðr. There is a treasured personal letter from the Queen in Constantinople – the affair with Edla has done nothing to tarnish his feelings for his wife, it is just the way of the world – but also something far more momentous.

The Hagia Sophia in Constantinople. Nygarðr can’t quite boast anything to match this! But one day …​

The Queen has finally proven herself adept in her role as Spymaster! It seems the long investment may have paid off after all.

This reminded Rurik that, with all the war and trials of the last months, he had not kept a close eye on the technical progress of the realm. The boon seems to have come in the area of military technology – which suits Rurik just fine. He summons Helgi.

“Son, your step-mother has done us proud in Constantinople! Our advances in military organisation can now be complemented three-fold. First, let us invest in better siege equipment. Next, we improve our heavy infantry training and also that of our light infantry, who still form the bedrock of our army. With no shipyards or cavalry, study in those areas is not yet of much use. Perhaps later.” Edla will be pleased, thinks Rurik to himself with gentle amusement.​

“It will be done, father.” The Prince-Marshal rushes off to begin sending orders of his own. Better this than another diatribe about the superior merits of the Norse Gods over those of his mother’s Slavic heritage!​

Other orders are sent to see to advances in the realm’s prosperity and culture – construction is and will remain crucial to the dream of achieving Rus. The majesty of the crown can never be sold short, while perhaps the cultural and religious problems of the realm could be better accommodated with some more tolerance. While the supremacy of the (still minority) Germanic culture and Norse religion are slowly pursued as the long-term objective.

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ​

16 August 873

Freshly returned to Nygarðr, Rurik sends a warmly appreciative letter back to Ingjerðr, for the official courier to bear on his long return trek to Constantinople, which he will begin after a few days rest in Holmgarðr’s capital. He asks discreetly about Edla’s health, but hears she remains largely confined to bed for now, other than a few trips to see the new training grounds being built and the prototype catapults being made to advance the realm’s siege capability.

A craftsman's model of the first catapults to be developed from plans smuggled out of Constantinople by Queen Ingjerðr. Holmgarðr would have to start modestly – it will be a long time before they will be able to develop the massive siege engines of later years and more advanced realms.​

But Rurik would not rest for long – his spirit was ever restless for the next quest. Should he simply declare war on either Veps or Chud (he would eventually do both, it was more a matter of determining the order and urgency), using his personal levies to do the job?

Or should he raid first instead, completing it as quickly as it can be managed, to bankroll his next stage of expansion? His experience against Pskov was a sobering one, even if it would not deter him from future risks, he would learn a degree of caution. If he does raid, where should he try next?

Or should he consider spending more of his prestige now [he still has 557 left – enough for a tribal army to be called] which could allow both the conquests to be contemplated as simultaneous projects, or for a conquest at a time near home and a raid abroad?

These questions would now exercise Rurik’s mind. Then action would flow, with swift and terrible consequences for someone, somewhere, currently lying at their leisure and suffering from a very false sense of security!

Spoiler: Ch 16 Q2: Where next?

Ch 16 Q2: Where next? General views on these or other options not contemplated by Rurik (he’s looking to consolidate in the north first before tackling some of the larger interior chiefdoms to the south – where some large armies have been seen battling to and fro with each other over the last year or two). Raid? Conquest and Subjugation? Two at once? Stick to personal levies or call up the tribal army now? Or better to spend the prestige on military buildings?

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ​

Just two set questions are posed by Rurik this time – though the second is quite broad. And there is the usual welcome for any other general advice or comment [on game play or commentary aspects].

Ch 16 Q1: Subjugation of Peers. OK, following up on previous questions re not investing other vassals with Dukedoms (and equivalents), my assumption here is that if I win a war of subjugation and bring Miemo in as a High Chief, he still ranks below and would be a subordinate to Rurik, as the Petty King of Holmgarðr. Because he is a High Chief and I have never exercised this mechanic before, I’m just trying to avoid another of those newbie faux pas.

Ch 16 Q2: Where next? General views on these or other options not contemplated by Rurik (he’s looking to consolidate in the north first before tackling some of the larger interior chiefdoms to the south – where some large armies have been seen battling to and fro with each other over the last year or two). Raid? Conquest and Subjugation? Two at once? Stick to personal levies or call up the tribal army now? Or better to spend the prestige on military buildings?

ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ​

A depiction of Thor fighting during Ragnarök. While he wishes to invoke the spirit of Thor for his creation of the Kingdom of Rus, Rurik hopes the coming series of events will not be quite so cataclysmic!​

In Norse mythology, Ragnarök is a series of future events, including a great battle, foretold to ultimately result in the death of a number of major figures (including the gods Odin, Thor, Týr, Freyr, Heimdallr, and Loki), the occurrence of various natural disasters, and the subsequent submersion of the world in water. Afterward, the world will resurface anew and fertile, the surviving and returning gods will meet, and the world will be repopulated by two human survivors. Ragnarök is an important event in Norse mythology, and has been the subject of scholarly discourse and theory throughout the history of Germanic studies. [From Wikipedia]

 

[stnylan]

My gut feeling would be to do another raid ... but then I rather like raiding so I am hardly an unbiased commentater there.

 

[PVT Ascoobis]

Q1. If you subjugate a Duke, he loses the duchy title. You either usurp it or it is destroyed, I can't remember which but fairly sure you usurp it and he is then a count level vassal.

Q2. I still advocate calling up the Tribal army, wrecking every de jure vassal of Russia, creating the Kingdom, and then raiding to consolidate. You lose the free subjugation CB when you create the Kingdom, so you should subjugate everyone first. Never be at peace and never dismiss the Tribal Army until you're done.

 

[Spaßwolf]

I'd say if you can afford more conquest, go for it. You are getting older and having a kingdom would be useful for succession. And those Finnish chiefs look like easy pickings.

 

[Spaßwolf]

Q1. You lose the free subjugation CB when you create the Kingdom, so you should subjugate everyone first.

Doesn't he get some de jure claims instead? (Though those would probably leave his new vassals with their duke tier titles, i.e. votes for Ruriks succession.)

 

[PVT Ascoobis]

Doesn't he get some de jure claims instead? (Though those would probably leave his new vassals with their duke tier titles, i.e. votes for Ruriks succession.)

Yes, to all. But subjugation gets you all of their territory while de jure claims only work on territory that is de jure Kingdom of Rus. Saves a bit of work in the long run as there are a couple of rulers at the 867 start that have lands both within Russia and outside.