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So going by those pictures the Avars were East Asians?
Well, looks like they were. At least bodies archeologist found (not a lot of them) shows mongoloid features.

Ibn Rustah wrote of the Rus, i.e. the Scandinavian invaders who formed a ruling warrior class over Slavic subjects that in time gave the name to Russia, not Russian people as the term is understood today.
That's not defined. Actually, it's a big, big question in slavistics. The biggest problem is that it's not understandable how Rus ethnonimus came from norse language. Also he's saying that Rus using scimitars. Also, viking rulers definetly wasn't called kagans. I mean, please, I live here, I know about normannic theory. ;)
The most popular version is than Ibn Rustah just mixed different evidence about different peoples, with some details being about normans, some - about slavs, some - about pechenegs or other turkic peoples.
 
Yup, I know. Intresting thing is that Russian Khaganate was there in the moment of the greatest extent of Khazaria only.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Хазарский_каганат#/media/File:Chasaren.jpg
Check the dates.
What's the sources of the Russian Khaganate?
1. There was a embassy from Byzantium to the HRE. There was some people "from Rhos people", whose king was named chacanus. Don't forget that people of Roman Empires knew Avars. 839 year.
2. There is a letter from western Emperor to greek one, declaring that only avar ruler should be called khagan, and slavs (normans, as contemporary sources called them) rulers shouldn't be called like that.
3. There is a source from arabian letters, declaring that there is some kind of "khagan of rus", who lives by attacking slavs, enslaving them and selling them in the Khazatia and Bulgaria.
Still, I have no sources declaring that slavic rulers called themselves "khagans".
Maybe the Vikings penetrated even before the arrival of Askold and Dir in 882?
The Germans did not know: "Died as Obrs"?
Kagan title pagans-Rus. After adopting Christianity, it was rejected.
The Ruses were definitely ruled by the Avars. The question is different: before 796 or earlier? To be able to enter the power of the Avar in the СK2. Kolomiytsev tried to answer this question. But I did not read it completely. He seems to find many Avar monuments in Moravia after the fall of the Kaganate.
Many Avars entered the service to the Bulgarians, in fact to the former fellow citizens. When did the Slavicization of the Bulgarians? As part of the Avar Kaganate or after 626?
 
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So going by those pictures the Avars were East Asians?
Avars from the time of the era of the "five barbarian tribes" in China and the outskirts. Century bloody and cruel. North China was captured by dozens of different barbarian states. There was heroism and tragedy as in the Great Migration of Peoples in Europe
 
Kagan title pagans-Rus. After adopting Christianity, it was rejected.
You cited christianic praise for "kagan Vladimir", written by metropolitan in 11 century, no less. "Sermon on Law and Grace" was written somewhere in 1030-1050th, at least 15 years after Vladimir's death and at least 27 years after christianization. Still, "Recollection and praize..." and "Vita of Great Prince Vladimir" are contemporal, but never mention this title.
Also you cited writings for "our kagan" on St. Sophia Cathedral. You cited "The Tale...". That's all christianic sources.

The Ruses were definitely ruled by the Avars. The question is different: before 796 or earlier?
Nope. Some kind of Slavs were definitely ruled by the Avars, no arguing here. Were this slavs "ruses"? Were "ruses" slavs at all, or it was some kind of germanic or iranian tribe, who were melted with some unnamed slavic tribe? We don't know. There are tons of theories.
We do know though that in 10th century it was already autoethnonim of one kind of slavic tribes, supposedly (I do believe in normanic theory) ruled by scandinaves.
(also I believe you wanted to say "before 796 or later"; "earlier" means "раньше")

The Germans did not know: "Died as Obrs"?
They definitely didn't. Said letter had been written in 871. In 843 "Avar Kingdom", as a part of Frankish Empire, still existed.

He seems to find many Avar monuments in Moravia after the fall of the Kaganate
Just in case - he didn't find anything, he isn't archeologist. He cited some findings of Avar material culture in Moravia, which definitely exist; still, it doesn't mean Avar ruled Moravia (even if it's not impossible in my book, just in case). It means Avars were there or traded there.
 
What a pity that the Mongols burned Kiev. But they were Nestorians against the Orthodox. For killing ambassadors. Or other princes burned Kiev?
 
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But they were Nestorians against the Orthodox.
As far as we can say, Mongols in 13th century weren't particulary religious. Batu, for example, was defined as christian by muslims, and as muslim by christians.

Or other princes burned Kiev?
Why "or"? "And". Andrey Bogolubskiy burned it in 1169. Ruric of Smolensk did it in 1203.
Of course, not all of Kiev. But Mongols didn't burn everything as well.
 
Kagan is late title. The Huns did not wear this title. So the title Kagan arrived with Avars
Arrived to where? To Western Europe? Undoubtedly.
But eastern slavs had another country on their borders who used this title, fought them hardly, and for defeating whom slavic rulers were praised. It's Khazaria.
 
Again, the Slavs are descended from one state. Maybe Georgians and Nestor were not mistaken? What do you think?
Apparently not by chance kagan Svyatoslav wanted to transfer the capital to the Danube. He wanted to restore historical injustice. Avar revanchism against the Khazars, Franks and Romans. The Khazars and the Romans had a long-standing allied relationship. But he was killed, were not the Kiev Christians who incited the Pechenegs?

About Slavs (Sakalib). The Slavs from the descendants of Mazan’s son Yaphetov, and their dwellings (stretch) from the north do not yet reach the west. Says Ibrahim son of Yakub Israelite: The countries of the Slavs stretch from the Syrian sea to the surrounding sea to the north. And the tribes of the north took possession of some of them and dwell between them (the Slavs) for this time. They (consist of) numerous, diverse tribes. And in former times a certain king gathered them, the title of which was Maha, and he was from one of their tribe, which was called Vlınbaba; and this tribe was readable by them. Then - their speech was disconnected and their (state) order ceased, and their tribes became (separate state) groups and the king reigned in each of their tribes. And now there are four kings: the king (c) al-Blgarin, and Bwislav (Bryslav), the king of Fraghi and Bhyma and Krakva, and Mshka, the king of the north, and Nakur in the far west. And border with the country Nakur-a in the west of Sknun (Sksun = Saxony; de G.) and part of Marman (Grman? De G.) and his (Naur-a) country - a country with low bread prices, rich in horses; from there they are also exported to other countries. They (the people of this country) are fully armed, (consisting) of armor, helmets and swords. From Marzbrg-a to Mileh-a - 10 miles. (From there) to the bridge - 50 miles. And this is a mile long wooden bridge. And from the bridge to the Nakur-a fortress - about 40 miles; she is also called 'Azzan, which means “big fortress” (o), and opposite Azzan is a fortress built in a freshwater lake. And in this way, the Slavs build most of their fortresses: they are sent to the meadows with abundant waters and reeds, and they designate a circular or quadrangular place, depending on the shape that they want to give to the fortress and its size. And they dig a ditch around it and dump the excavated earth into a shaft, having strengthened it with boards and piles similar to the bat earth, until the wall reaches the desired height. And then the door is measured from which side they want, and they come to it by a wooden bridge. And from the fortress of 'Azzan-a to the surrounding sea eleven miles; and not otherwise troops penetrate into the countries of Nakur, but with great difficulty, for all his country is meadows, reeds and marsh.
As for the land of Bvishlav, its length from the town of Fraga to the town of Krakva is a three-week journey. And it is adjacent in length with the countries of the Turks. And the city of Fraga is built of stone and lime, and it is the richest of the cities of commerce. Rus-s and Slavs come to him from the city of Krakva with goods and come to them (the inhabitants of Fraghi) from the Türkic countries Muslims and Jews and Türks, also with goods and mitlicas Byzantine, and export flour from them, tin and different furs. Their country is the best of the countries of the north and the richest in life supplies: they sell spelled from them for a knshar as much as enough for one person per month, and barley is sold for a knshar for one horse’s feed for 40 days and ten hens are sold for one knshar. And in the city of Braga, saddles and bridles and shields are used and used in their countries. And light kerchiefs are made in the Bwimah countries, of a very thin fabric similar to nets, which are useless. Their price is constantly knshar for a dozen scarves. They trade and settle with each other; they have (whole) vessels of them and they are considered their riches and the most valuable things; they buy wheat and flour and horses and gold and silver and all sorts of things. It is remarkable that the inhabitants of Bvyma are dark and black-haired and that their redhead is rare. The road from Marzbrga (h) to the countries of Bvishlav .... From there, to the fortress of Flyvy (?) 10 miles. And from there to Yrb'azab (t) - two miles; it is a fortress built of stone and putty and it also lies on the river Slava. And the river Nvda flows into it (in Glory). And from the fortress of Nvb'rad to the “salt mine of the Jews” - which is also on the River Glory - 30 miles. From there to the fortress of Nvrnhyin (?) Which is on the Mldava River ... and from there to the end of the forest - 25 miles. And from the beginning to the end - 40 miles in the mountains and inaccessible places. And from it (the forest) to the wooden bridge across the swamp - about 2 miles, from the end of the forest, (and along this bridge) come to the city of Braga.
As for the country of Mshka, it is the largest of their (Slav) countries. It is rich in bread and meat and honey and arable land. And the taxes collected by him (Mshkoi) (paid) in Byzantine mitkaly; they are (constitute) the content of his people. Each month, each of them has a certain number of them (mitts). And he has 3000 Dzra (Dzrag?) And these are warriors, a hundred of which equals ten hundreds of others. And he gives these people dresses and horses and weapons and all that they need. And when a child is born to any of them, then he (Mshka) immediately after the birth of a child orders him to pay his salary, whether it is masculine or female. And when it reaches the age of majority, he will marry him, if it is male, and pay for him the wedding gift to the girl's father. If it is female, he will marry her and pay her father a wedding gift. The Slavic wedding gift is very significant and their customs on this score are similar to those of Berber. And when someone has two daughters or three, they become the reason for their enrichment; if two sons are born, they are the cause of his impoverishment. And they border Mshka in the east of Rus and in the north of Brus. Dwellings Brus-ov near the surrounding sea. And they have a special language, they do not know the languages of the neighboring peoples; and they are famous for their bravery: when the (enemy) army comes to them, none of them are waiting for 31 to be joined by his comrade, but he stands not caring about anyone and cuts with his sword until he dies. And they make raids on them Rus ships on the west. And to the west of Rus - the city of women. Onex own lands and slaves. And they become pregnant from their slaves, and when one of them gives birth to a son, she kills him. They ride and personally go to war and have the courage and bravery. Says Ibrahim, son of Yakub the Israelite: “The news of this city is true. I told this to Huta, the King of Rum. ” And to the west of this city is a tribe of Slavs, which is called the “community” of Avbab. It (a) lives in the swamplands of the Mshka countries to the northwest. They have a large city on the surrounding sea, which has 12 gates and a harbor. And there they have excellent port regulations. And they are fighting with Mshkoi and their strength is great. And they have no king and they do not obey one person, and their elders are their rulers.
As for the king Al-Blkarin, then say Ibrahim, the son of Yakub: I did not enter his country, but I saw his ambassadors in the city of Marzbrg when they came to the king Huta; they wore narrow dresses and girded with long belts on which buttons of gold and silver were attached. Their king is of high rank: he puts on a crown on his head, has secretaries and managers and officials, orders and forbids according to (established) procedures and ceremonies, as is customary for kings and grandees. And they know the different languages and translate the gospel into the Slavic language; they are christians. Says Ibrahim, the son of Yakub: “And Blkadin adopted Christianity .... to the country of Rum-s when he besieged the city of Constantinople, while the king managed to appease him; and he gave him rich gifts; and to what he tried to satisfy him belonged and the fact that he married his daughter. And she then prompted him (her husband) to adopt Christianity. ”The author (al-Bekri) says:“ And Ibrahim’s words point out that his acceptance of Christianity was after 300 years of Hydzhra, while others say that those who accepted him adopted Christianity during the time of Tsar Bsus (Bslus de G.) and then remained Christians for this time. "Says Ibrahim:" Constantinople is south of Blkdin and is also bordering them in the east and north of al-Badjanaki. To the west from it (Constantinople) is Lake Badgia (head Bnahia). This is the gulf that emerges from the Syrian Sea, between the “great land” and Constantinople; and it surrounds the great land (i.e.) of the coast of Ruma (Rome) and the coast of Lnkbrdia (= Langobardia; by manuscript distorted in al-Brkria) and ends at Aquilai (head of Anflan). And thus, all these localities form one (semi-) island which from the south surrounds the Syrian Sea, from the east and north the Bay of Bnadzhii (Venice); and in the west, he (this peninsula) has an outcome. And the Slavs cover both sides of this bay from its very exit in the west, in the Syrian sea. To the east of them, al-Blkarin, and in the west - the other Slavs. Those who live to the west of it (the Gulf) are the bravest, and the inhabitants of that country ask for their protection and fear their strength. And their countries are high mountains with inaccessible roads. In general, the Slavs are courageous and offensive people, and if they were not separated due to the numerous ramifications of their knees and the dispersion of their tribes, then no nation in the world would have tried them. 44 They are zealous in farming and in obtaining their own food and are superior in this to all the peoples of the north. And the goods reach them by sea and land to the Rus and to Constantinople. And the chief tribes of the north speak Slavonic, because they are mixed with them, such as the tribes of al-Trshkin and Anqliy and Badzhanakia and Rus and the Khazars. And in all countries of the north, hunger is not the result of lack of rain and prolonged drought, but (occurs) from an abundance of rain and prolonged dampness. And their drought is not considered fatal, because nobody whom it affects is not afraid of it, because of the humidity of their lands and the great coldness of them. They sow in two seasons, in summer and in spring, and reap two harvests. And most of their sowing consists of millet. The cold is healthy for them, even if it was very strong, and the heat for them is destructive. And they cannot travel to the countries of Lnkbardia because of their hotness, because the heat from them (Langobards) is very strong, as a result of which they (Slavs) die. Health for them is possible only at this (temperature) at which the composition is in a solid state. When it melts and boils, the body dries and as a result, death occurs. And there are two diseases common to all of them; there is hardly any free from them. This is a dual tumor: erysipelas and hemorrhoids. They refrain from eating chickens, for, they harm them, as they argue and strengthen their faces; but they eat the meat of cows and geese and it meets their needs. They dress in wide dresses, but only the bottom of their sleeves is narrow. And their kings keep their wives prisoners and are very jealous. And one man has 20 wives and more. Most of the trees in their countries are apple, pear and peach trees. And they have a wonderful bird, which is dark green above. She imitates all the sounds of man and animals that she hears; and sometimes they manage to catch her; and they hunt for it and it is called in Slavic sb. Then they run into a wild chicken, which is Slavic called ttr. She has delicious meat and her screams are heard from the treetops at a distance of one and more farsah. She is of two genera: there are black and speckled, more beautiful than peacocks. And they have different string and wind instruments: they have a wind instrument, the length of which is more than two cubits and a string one, on which there are eight strings. The inner side of it is flat and not convex. Drinks - and their hop drinks are made from honey.
Masudi says: And the Slavs break up into many tribes. To their tribes belong Sbrab and Dulab and and Namjin (ruled by Nabzhin). This tribe is the bravest of them and the most warlike. And (their tribes belong to) the tribe, which is called Srnin (c. Srbin) and which they are afraid of, and another tribe called Mizaz and (the tribes) Khairavas (c. Hrvatin) and Sasin and Hshabine (a). And of these tribes, some follow the Christian teaching and it is for the Jacobite sense, others do not have a frank book and do not follow any religious law and are pagans. And the king's tribe belongs to the latter. The tribe of which we are told that it is called Srnin burns itself in fire when the head of the tribe dies. And they also burn their horses. And they have customs similar to Indian customs. They border on the east and are far from the west. And they rejoice and have fun while burning the deceased and claim that their joy and their gaiety (occurs) from the fact that his (deceased) Lord took pity on him. The wives of the dead cut their hands and faces with knives. And when one of them claimed that she loved him, she (after his death) fastens a rope, rises to her in a chair, tightly ties her neck to her; then a chair is pulled out from under it and it remains hung, hanging out until it dies. Then she is burned and so she connects with her husband.

Their women (Slavs), when they marry, do not commit adultery. And when the girl loves someone, then she goes to him and satisfies her passion. And when a man marries and finds his wife virgin, he says to her: if you had something good, men would love you and you would choose someone who would have deprived you of innocence - and chases her away and renounces her .

The countries of the Slavs are very cold; and they are most cold when the nights are lunar and the days are clear. Then the cold increases and the frost increases. And the earth then becomes like a stone and all liquids freeze; and the well and the channel are covered, as it were, with plaster, so that they become like a stone. And when people emit water from the nose, their beards are covered with layers of ice like glass, so you need to break them until you get warm or come to the shelter. - And when nights are dark and foggy days, then the frost decreases and the cold subsides, and at this time the ships break down and those that are in them perish, for they find (on ships) ice from the rivers of these countries like solid mountains. Sometimes it is possible for a young man or a strong man to grasp at a similar piece and be saved on it.

And they do not have a bath; but they make themselves a tree house and caulk the gaps with some matter, which forms on their trees, resembles a greenish water moss and which they call 'uj. It serves them instead of tar for their ships. Then they arrange a hearth of stones in one of the corners of it (this house) and at the very top against the hearth open a window for the passage of smoke. When he (the hearth) becomes hot, they close this window and lock the doors of the house - and there are tanks for water in it - and pour the hot hearth with this water; and then couples rise. And in their hand, each of them has a bunch of dry branches, with which they set in motion the air and attract it to themselves. And then their pores open and the excess comes out of their bodies and rivers flow from them. And do not remain on any of them traces of a rash or abscess. And they call this house al-atbba. And their kings ride large, rolling, high carts on four wheels and legs; There are four strong supports in their corners and a body that is upholstered with silk is hung to them with strong chains. And therefore the one who sits in it does not shake as the cart shakes. They also do it for the sick and wounded.

The Slavs are fighting with the Rum-s, Ifrendzhami and Nvkbrd-s (Langobards) and other peoples, and are fighting with alternate happiness.
 
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Again, the Slavs are descended from one state.
No. The Slavs descended from one localized tribal group (and this group, by the way, definitly wasn't on Danube, because there is beech of Danube). That doesn't mean it was one state.

Maybe Georgians and Nestor were not mistaken? What do you think?
I believe they were. Actually, you think this way as well - no way Georgians and Nestor would be fully right in your version.
1. Georgians never identify Avars and Russians. They identify Scythians and Russians. Then you take a message about scythians were in war with Byzantium, and identify scythians ("who are russians") with avars. It's quite far-fetched - you see, Georgians used byzantine chronicles. That means they knew who Avars are. If you stretch Avar Khaganate farther in steppes, and even prolong it's existence in time, Georgians would know Avars even better. That's even if we drop a thought that georgians used word "scythians" as "barbarians".
2. Nestor never says that Russians are Avars; quite the opposite, he says that Obres were enemies of slavs, and that obres dissapeared fully. You'll need for Nestor to "forget" Ruses were Avars, and Rus state was a remnant part of Avar Khaganate, but remember absolutely clear that slavs came from Danube. Also the very idea of coming of Varyags takes no sense - why would a splinter of Avar Khaganate, who retain Avar power structure, call other tribes to rule them?

Apparently not by chance kagan Svyatoslav wanted to transfer the capital to the Danube. He wanted to restore historical injustice
First of all, this line of thought isn't quite typical for peoples on this level of development. Take Avars - they didn't used all their powers to return to Mongolia, right? Angles also didn't try to return into Frisia, and normans didn't claim Scandinavia.
Secondly, let's see Svyatoslav's biography.
His parents had Scandinavian names, Igor and Olga (Ingvar and Helga).
"His" first foreign action was to avenge his father's killers (actually, he was a child, so it was Olga's doing).
Then he attack Khazaria. Nestor did mention that Khazar leader was called khagan, but doesn't do the same for Svyatoslav. He took some cities, raze them, took a prize, build some forts to protect conquests.
After Khazarian campaign Byzantines came to him and offer him gold, prizes, support and lands if he attacks Bolgaria. He did it, but then pechenegs and khazars attacked Kiev. Actually, you don't need to be incited by anybody to attack a rich city when it's ruler and his troops are far away fighting powerful enemy; still, there is a thought they were adviced by khazars and byzantines. Well, anyway, Svyatoslav defeated pechenegs and returned into Bolgaria and decided he want to live here. Of course, it wasn't by chance: he actually explained why. You see, after Bolgaria he was going to attack Byzantium (and he did so!), so capital on Danube would be in a center of his land, where all the prizes would came.
Well, Greek Campaign didn't go well, Svyatoslav lost Bolgaria and came home. On the way home his (suffered) regiment was attacked by pechenegs, who killed him. By Nestor, it was Bulgarians who incited pechenegs ("Послаша же переяславци къ печенѣгом, глаголя: «Идеть Святославъ в Русь, възем имѣнье много у грѣкъ и полонъ бещисленъ, а с маломъ дружины»." - "Pereslavians sent an envoy to Pechenegs, telling: "So, Svyatoslav going to Rus, carrying a lot of prize and slaves, taken from Greece, and he has depleted troops"; Pereslavec on Danube was exact city Svatoslav wanted to move capital).
Can't see a lot of revanchism here; opportunism and ambitions - yes. Also don't forget, Byzantines knew avars, and never identified Svyatoslav with avars.
 
That doesn't mean it was one state.
So you know more than Nestor and Al-Bakri? I can still lead the ancient authors.
I believe they were. Actually, you think this way as well - no way Georgians and Nestor would be fully right in your version.
1. Georgians never identify Avars and Russians. They identify Scythians and Russians. Then you take a message about scythians were in war with Byzantium, and identify scythians ("who are russians") with avars. It's quite far-fetched - you see, Georgians used byzantine chronicles. That means they knew who Avars are. If you stretch Avar Khaganate farther in steppes, and even prolong it's existence in time, Georgians would know Avars even better. That's even if we drop a thought that georgians used word "scythians" as "barbarians".
2. Nestor never says that Russians are Avars; quite the opposite, he says that Obres were enemies of slavs, and that obres dissapeared fully. You'll need for Nestor to "forget" Ruses were Avars, and Rus state was a remnant part of Avar Khaganate, but remember absolutely clear that slavs came from Danube. Also the very idea of coming of Varyags takes no sense - why would a splinter of Avar Khaganate, who retain Avar power structure, call other tribes to rule them?
Well, Nestor was biased. He is a Westerner and a Christian.
First of all, this line of thought isn't quite typical for peoples on this level of development. Take Avars - they didn't used all their powers to return to Mongolia, right? Angles also didn't try to return into Frisia, and normans didn't claim Scandinavia.
Secondly, let's see Svyatoslav's biography.
His parents had Scandinavian names, Igor and Olga (Ingvar and Helga).
"His" first foreign action was to avenge his father's killers (actually, he was a child, so it was Olga's doing).
Then he attack Khazaria. Nestor did mention that Khazar leader was called khagan, but doesn't do the same for Svyatoslav. He took some cities, raze them, took a prize, build some forts to protect conquests.
After Khazarian campaign Byzantines came to him and offer him gold, prizes, support and lands if he attacks Bolgaria. He did it, but then pechenegs and khazars attacked Kiev. Actually, you don't need to be incited by anybody to attack a rich city when it's ruler and his troops are far away fighting powerful enemy; still, there is a thought they were adviced by khazars and byzantines. Well, anyway, Svyatoslav defeated pechenegs and returned into Bolgaria and decided he want to live here. Of course, it wasn't by chance: he actually explained why. You see, after Bolgaria he was going to attack Byzantium (and he did so!), so capital on Danube would be in a center of his land, where all the prizes would came.
Well, Greek Campaign didn't go well, Svyatoslav lost Bolgaria and came home. On the way home his (suffered) regiment was attacked by pechenegs, who killed him. By Nestor, it was Bulgarians who incited pechenegs ("Послаша же переяславци къ печенѣгом, глаголя: «Идеть Святославъ в Русь, възем имѣнье много у грѣкъ и полонъ бещисленъ, а с маломъ дружины»." - "Pereslavians sent an envoy to Pechenegs, telling: "So, Svyatoslav going to Rus, carrying a lot of prize and slaves, taken from Greece, and he has depleted troops"; Pereslavec on Danube was exact city Svatoslav wanted to move capital).
Can't see a lot of revanchism here; opportunism and ambitions - yes. Also don't forget, Byzantines knew avars, and never identified Svyatoslav with avars.
There were still the Turks of the Second Kaganate, blue Turks, who tried to restore the former influence.
The Mongols of the Yuan Dynasty conducted a series of wars with the Ming Empire.
Visigoths of Asturias against the Moors.

Avars would not have been able to return to Mongolia because the path was thorny and tortuous.
Anglo-Saxons were warm and comfortable on the island.

The name Kagan, as a rule, is not an empty sound, but an action program. Kagan can not be called random people. Moreover, the Avars were the first kagans, while others (Turks, Mongols) were only imitators.
In the later Middle Ages only Chingizid was called Khan. Even such influential people as Mamai and Timur were not called khans.
 
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Well, Nestor was biased. He is a Westerner and a Christian.
You have been asking how someone can question Nestor for literally the entire argument and now you decide he's wrong. You only say he could be wrong when it helps your point. Looking through this thread you acted like he was an all knowing source and now you say he's wrong. You are clearly picking and choosing the few arguments that might fit your point and ignoring all of the other more credible sources.
 
You have been asking how someone can question Nestor for literally the entire argument and now you decide he's wrong. You only say he could be wrong when it helps your point. Looking through this thread you acted like he was an all knowing source and now you say he's wrong. You are clearly picking and choosing the few arguments that might fit your point and ignoring all of the other more credible sources.
Therefore led cross sources. No clean avars. Already the second generation was mixed, their language disappeared. Apparently this meant Nestor? Or maybe he meant the carriers of the Avar tradition, dreaming of the capital on the Danube?
 
So you know more than Nestor and Al-Bakri? I can still lead the ancient authors.
I definitly do. They didn't had full archeological knowledge I have; full textual knowlege I have; ability to cross-check western, persian, arabian, byzantine sources. They hadn't results of comparatible linguistics to check how close some people are. I can't even phantom why the hell I should think otherwise.
Even you, telling that earlier slavs are avars, claiming you know more than Nestor.

Well, Nestor was biased. He is a Westerner and a Christian.
Of course he was. That's actually one of reasons why you can't take everything he wrote on faith.

The name Kagan, as a rule, is not an empty sound, but an action program. Kagan can not be called random people. Moreover, the Avars were the first kagans, while others (Turks, Mongols) were only imitators.
You conveniountly missed Khazar Khagans. So no, it wasn't action program, it was declaration of power. Actually the very meaning of Khagan is "khan of khans". So yeah, it makes complete sense that, after Svyatoslav defeated Khazars, he took their title as the most prestigious title. Still, it was foreign for him and his people, and didn't stuck. Just to refute "it was pagan title, so christians refuse it" - "kuningaz" (konung/king/knyaz) is a pagan title as well; never stopped christians to use it from England to Rus.

In the later Middle Ages only Chingizid was called Khan. Even such influential people as Mamai and Timur were not called khans.
...and, if you check, it was concious approach of Chingizid tradition - to prevent rulers to "accumulate" titles. Even if it wasn't so, it would be very bold of Mamai, who wasn't ruler at all, but a general/"prime minister" under khans of Golden Horde.

No clean avars. Already the second generation was mixed, their language disappeared.
So: they didn't called themselves Avars; they didn't speak Avar; they hadn't Avar traditions; they hadn't Avar territory; they forfieted Avar military tradition; they weren't avars by blood. So, what they had to call them avars?

Apparently this meant Nestor?
Actually we know exactly what Nestor meant. He wrote it himself. He meant that pride and overconfidence are bad, and God will punish it.

Or maybe he meant the carriers of the Avar tradition, dreaming of the capital on the Danube?
Just in case, for all we know Avar capital wasn't on Danube, but in modern Hungary. Still, you don't need to be carrier of Avar tradition to want capital on Danube. Danube is a nice place to have a capital!
You check - in Svyatoslav rationale we had (from Nestor indeed) only political arguements; never arguement "it's the land of my ancestors" used, and, if you check a tale, it was completly fit to situation (because Svyatoslav was arguing Olga, contradicting parent, which is a bad thing to do, which would God punish).
 
Finished Kolomiytsev. His Avars do not speak Slavic. He has a harem theory that the Avars captured many Slavic girls along the way. If there were 20 thousand running men, then not less than 60 thousand. These captives mastered the common secret language and taught it to other captives. Over time, their descendants multiplied, like the Creoles and mestizos of Latin America from the Spanish conquistadors.
Avar governors spread the Slavic language. That is why archaeologists find very few purely Slavic things of the Penkovo culture in the Balkans. But Pannonian things spread throughout Eastern Europe. The traditional opinion of Slavists, that it was spread by Slavic fugitives, who learned in Pannonia by spying on local masters, and then grabbed the Romanesque masters with them does not explain this.
Avars also died en masse from clashes with the Romans and epidemics of plague and leprosy.
For example, the Roman commander Priscus destroyed about 60 thousand Avars in 3 battles.

Here is what the legendary Burgundian monk Fredegar said about the events of 623-624 on the eastern borders of the Frankish state: "In the 40th year of Chlothar’s rule (the king of the Franks, Chlothar II, reigned from 584 to 629) districts (pago Sennanago), together with other merchants, went to those squads (sclavi), which are known as vinids (winidi). Sklavy have already revolted against avars (avares), also called huns (chunos) and against their kagan ruler. were for a long time filed by the Huns, who used them as befulci (the word not and There is a generally accepted translation.) Whenever the Huns opposed other nations, they stood at the camp in the ranks, ready for battle while the Vinida fought. If the Vinida won, the Huns rushed forward for their loot, but if the Vinida were defeated, the Huns turned them and again forced to fight, the Vinida were called befulci Huns, because they twice launched an attack in battle formations, and thus covered the Huns. Every year the Huns winter with squalls, sleep with their wives and daughters, and in addition, squads pay tribute and suffer many other things. The sons born of the Huns by Sklavsky wives and daughters once found this shameful humiliation intolerable, and therefore, as I said, they refused to obey their masters and started a rebellion. When they came out against the Huns, Samо, of whom I spoke, went with them, and his courage caused their admiration: surprisingly many Huns fell from the sword of the Vinids. Recognizing his achievements, the vinids made Himself their king, and he ruled them for 35 years. Several times, under his leadership, they fought with the Huns, and his prudence and courage always brought victory to the Vinides. Samo had 12 Vinidian wives who bore him 22 sons and 15 daughters. "
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Avars captured not even Slavic girls, but Balt girls. And those young girls created a new language, Slavic. Therefore, the oldest Slavic toponymy in Europe will not find
 
It is all a very interesting supposition, but I'd rather put Scythians or Sarmatians over Avars in this case :)
 
Finished Kolomiytsev. His Avars do not speak Slavic. He has a harem theory that the Avars captured many Slavic girls along the way.
...so (just in case, I read Kolomiytsev):
1. Avars were going away from the attacking turks. Danube was relatively populated region. Somehow all this population didn't fit Avars.
2. When they were refused to be accessed to Pannonia, they came to Saxony. There was germanic population there, still they didn't fit Avars.
3. Then they assaulted Pannonia, entered there, destroyed Gepides and essentially drove out Langobardes. Still, you guess it, local population didn't fit Avars!
4. And then they came to Baltic and took Balt girls (I believe everybody else didn't fit them). Just in case, look into map and notice that Baltic isn't on the way from Scythia to Pannonia (and not even in a way from Balkans to Germany).
5. Said baltic girls were:
5.1. allowed to conspire;
5.2. allowed to speak codes;
5.3. able to create a "secret language" which:
5.3.1. looks exactly indoeuropean;
5.3.2. fits comparabatile linguistic theories about baltic and slavic languages;
5.3.3. looks like it was split from baltic languages... like... thousand years B.C.
6. Children from said girls were teached for this "secret language", and somehow prefered it to their father's language. So governors somewhy spreaded said language to all subjected peoples.
Does this picture of genius, consolidated, conscious baltic slave girls (60K, no less!) looks plausible to you?

That is why archaeologists find very few purely Slavic things of the Penkovo culture in the Balkans.
I'm sorry, but if we admit Penkovo culture as slavic, well, "Avar theory" goes to hell. Penkovo artifacts dated to 5-7 century.

Here is what the legendary Burgundian monk Fredegar said about the events of 623-624 on the eastern borders of the Frankish state
Please, don't get offense, but you have quite an annoyng manner to show some testimony without a thesis this testimony should prove or disprove.
Yes, Fredegar (if he existed! I would exclude words like "probably", "presumably", "likely", "possibly' later, but please don't forget them) wrote something like this. Fredegar wrote that he took some chronicles, corrected them when he had seen fit, and created his work.
So?
 
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This whole argument clearly misses the one critical detail which makes it all possible: the benevolent aliens (in flying saucers) who clearly wanted the Avars to succeed and spread for unfathomable reasons of their own, since their previous attempted project at Atlantis failed.

I'm finding the OP's whole argument absurdly convoluted and contrived, stretching sketchy details to create "proof" where none exits, and plenty of contrary evidence is simply ignored because it doesn't fit his theory. As with any credible scientific endeavor, you create a theory, then adjust the data points to fit it, right?