• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

HoI4 Dev Diary - Fuel Review and Motorized Artillery

Hello and welcome back for the first dev diary of 2019! Today we will update you on the state of fuel as well as show you a little something many people have wanted for a long time.

Changes and Updates to the Fuel Implementation

When the game launched, oil was used as other resources for the purpose of production. This was an abstraction done for fuel consuming equipment. We have removed this abstraction but are still using a simplified version of what happens in the real world. Oil refining was and is not as simple as simply processing it into a multipurpose “fuel,” but we felt that this simplification was necessary for gameplay and consistency of depth of detail.

We have added fuel as a resource to the top bar. With this UI element we convey a few bits of information. The numbers show the amount of time you have before being full or dry. Here the number is green and indicates that the stockpile will be full in 361 days. The numbers will become red if fuel is being lost. The green bar indicates the state of the stockpile, showing how full it is. The arrows indicate that fuel is currently being gained.

top bar fuel.png


Oil is still traded as it was previously but is no longer used in any production. Instead, excess oil is converted to fuel at an hourly rate. The trade UI has had some slight updates to take this into account. What was formerly the “production” category is now “need.” Oil now has special subcategories of this section. Active need and potential need are now represented with “A” and “P,” explained more thoroughly in tooltips. This helps give the player an understanding of how much oil needs to be traded if they wish to try and cover their current fuel needs with a constant supply from oil refining.

fuel trade ui DD.png


Refineries have also been changed from giving Oil resources to giving hourly fuel. This both makes more sense from a historical perspective and makes it easier to control how much resource is produced by refineries. Previously, tech increases could only allow for a minimum increase of a single unit of oil. This gives developers and modders much better granular control over the output of a synthetic refinery.

For countries that will not have enough fuel production during wartime to meet their needs, developing a healthy stockpile is an option. Most nations will not start with a large stockpile capacity. Stockpile potential will be reduced by economy laws for many nations. Also, increasing stockpile capacity requires some investment, and will take space away from industry through the production of silo facilities. Japan is a good example of a nation that may run into a situation during the war when their usage far outstrips their potential fuel gain, so they will need to have a decent reserve of fuel if they want to fight the US in the Pacific.

fuel_1.jpg


To help understand what is going on with your fuel stockpile and to manage distribution when fuel has become tight, we have added fuel as a special section to the logistics tab. This includes a breakdown of usage by military branch of the military and the ability to control who gets priority for fuel distribution. A special variant of the stockpile menu used for other equipment shows a breakdown of fuel consumption by day, month, and year as well as a breakdown of the state of the stockpile over time.

fuel stockpile menu.png


The logistics support company has also been changed and will help with keeping your armor fuel usage more manageable.

image (1).png



Motorized Artillery Units

When Hearts of iron 4 was released, it featured a very large number of possible battalion types that you could use to design your divisions. However, there were a few unit types that were pointedly absent. For example, if you wanted to make a motorized infantry division that was a faster version of your regular infantry division with line artillery - you couldn’t, unless you were okay with slower speed.

Part of the reason for this was the feeling that a motorized artillery unit didn’t have enough of a drawback to be a meaningful choice - it would just be better than regular artillery, and the added cost of a handful of trucks was not a major issue if you were building trucks anyway.

mot_arty_1.jpg


With the addition of fuel, that has changed. Now it is a long-term decision to motorize more of your force, and it requires more planning as your army suffers increasing penalties if you can’t meet fuel demands. So we decided to add motorized artillery units in regular artillery, rocket artillery, anti-air and anti-tank flavors. They are, by and large, identical in firepower to their horse-drawn versions but require 50 trucks each, have a roughly 50% bigger supply footprint and, of course, require fuel to run properly.

mot_arty_2.jpg


No special tech is required to unlock motorized artillery; having motorized equipment and the respective artillery type researched also unlocks the motorized unit.

That’s all for today, tune in next week when we talk about changes to research and show off the new naval tech tree!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Can you take fuel from subjects, if they have a surplus and you require it?

You say we can prioritize fuel allocation between military branches. Can we further sub-divide that by theater, fleet, or wing/air zone? For example, maybe I am the UK, and the Channel Fleet is the most vital thing in the game for me. But the second most important thing is my fighters and heavy fighters securing the skies over southern England, even more so than my smaller fleet hunting for German convoys off the coast of Norway. Can I say "channel fleet is priority 1, southern England fighters are priority 2, other fleets come after that"?
 
First bicycle infantry, then amphibious tanks, and now (finally) motorized ART, AA and AT... Now all we need are armored cars and/or light tanks used in a recon role, then my job will be done here.
 
I assume that motorised and tank divisions will use less fuel in defence as opposed to attack as they are simply trying to hold ground rather than push forward.

Also, what happens if your tank division runs out of fuel, and they are being chased by a quick enemy? Will they fall back at the same pace as infantry, or will they be overrun and you lose the division. If they do get overrun, that could make putting tanks on the front line when you're low on fuel extremely risky.

Finally, what if you have partially motorised/mechanised divisions? Say you're starting to convert infantry to motorised or mechanised, and only half the division has been switched over so far. If you run out of fuel on then, and they can be overrun, will you lose the entire division or just all the motorised/mechanised and a bunch of division xp.
 
I think that a game of this scope can deal with slightly wrong borders. The province system dies not really lend itself well to border changes, does it?

It was worse in previous Iterations of HOI.

Its a game about WW2, the borders should be that of WW2, Its 2018 and its HOI4 not HOI2 they have a lot of options on what to do, this isn't "slight wrong borders" that would be no monaco,andorra, slovenia being one state when it should be 2or3 to match historically, north and south korea having a modern border instead of on the parallel etc..
Im tired of people saying its a minor thing, I want the game to be good and for that to be the case ISSUES need to be addressed, the thing is the "minor" changes get piled up until nothing looks like it should!!!
The province system can be buggy, but If I can deal with it by making a mod the developer team thats paid should do so too.
 
"Half-Track based SP-Artillery", do you mean something like Sd.Kfz 251/9?

But these are just short barrel infantry support guns in mechanized infantry battalions, not field artillery units. Sd.Kfz 251/4 is a gun-towing tractor often seen with leFH 18, but they cannot be called as "Half-Track based SP-Artillery". As far as I'm concerned all light artillery units, from the 76mm field guns or 105mm howitzers, are towed by truck/half-track/tracked vehicles, none of them is mounted on a half-track platform.
I was thinking more like (all based on the M3 Halftrack):
T19 105mm Howitzer Motor Carriage (M2A1 105mm Howitzer)
T30 75mm Howitzer Motor Carriage (M1A1 75mm Howitzer)
M13 Multiple Gun Motor Carriage (Twin .50 cal M2HB Machine Guns)
M15 Combination Gun Motor Carriage (M1A1 37mm AA Gun with twin .50 cal M2HB Machine Guns)
M16 Multiple Gun Motor Carriage (4 .50 cal M2HB Machine Guns)

For the Sd.Kfz 251 we have:
Sd.Kfz 251/9 Schützenpanzerwagen (7.5 cm KwK37 - Same mount as the StuG III)
Sd.Kfz 251/10 Schützenpanzerwagen (3.7 cm PaK - AT version)
Sd.Kfz 251/17 Schützenpanzerwagen (2 cm - AA version)
Sd.Kfz 251/21 Schützenpanzerwagen (3 Drilling MG151s - AA version)
Sd.Kfz. 251/22 7.5 cm PaK40 L/46 auf mittlerem Schützenpanzerwagen (AT version)
Not to mention the Wurfrahmen 40 which was mounted on either the 251 or captured foreign hardware like the Renault UE Chenillette or even the M3 Halftrack.
 
IF factories don't cosume fuel, then why have paradox added a button that enables "Fuel Prioritorisation to Factories". QED - factories must now use fuel.
I think you are reading to much into that graphic. I thought it meant "Fuel Prioritization to Army" (which at the time of that graphic uses the Mil Factory Icon), "Fuel Prioritization to Navy" (which uses the Dockyard Icon), etc.
 
Two questions:

1)the italia Will recieve some Love?
2) This new motorized artillery is like the italian truck mounted artillery, like Autocarro Sahariano SPA AS 37 , Camion Lancia 3 RO and Trattore Leggero SPA TL. 37?

No to both
 
Will the stockpile be fuel only, or will we be able to stockpile other resources in this, or another update/dlc?
My guess is that it'll be added when they add Supplies as a resource, which will probably come with better Resistance mechanics, e.g. Guerilla Warfare Doctrine.
 
Fuel consumption added to the game may make cavalry units more relevant. Although cavalry was essentially unheard of on the Western Front, there was quite a bit of contribution of cavalry units to the campaign. At the end of the war the Red Army had 26 cavalry divisions. Sometimes these divisions were mixed with mechanized and motorized troops to create Cavalry-Mechanized Group. The German, Romanian, Hungarian and Italian armies also fielded cavalry divisions and even executed successful cavalry charges (Savoia Izbushensky charge). The last cavalry charge of the war was in 1945 at Schoenfeld.

Now that there are motorized artillery units on the way in the game, horse artillery (with lower firepower than regular artillery units) that can keep up to the cavalry units ought to be added to the game.
 
I was thinking more like (all based on the M3 Halftrack):
T19 105mm Howitzer Motor Carriage (M2A1 105mm Howitzer)
T30 75mm Howitzer Motor Carriage (M1A1 75mm Howitzer)
M13 Multiple Gun Motor Carriage (Twin .50 cal M2HB Machine Guns)
M15 Combination Gun Motor Carriage (M1A1 37mm AA Gun with twin .50 cal M2HB Machine Guns)
M16 Multiple Gun Motor Carriage (4 .50 cal M2HB Machine Guns)

For the Sd.Kfz 251 we have:
Sd.Kfz 251/9 Schützenpanzerwagen (7.5 cm KwK37 - Same mount as the StuG III)
Sd.Kfz 251/10 Schützenpanzerwagen (3.7 cm PaK - AT version)
Sd.Kfz 251/17 Schützenpanzerwagen (2 cm - AA version)
Sd.Kfz 251/21 Schützenpanzerwagen (3 Drilling MG151s - AA version)
Sd.Kfz. 251/22 7.5 cm PaK40 L/46 auf mittlerem Schützenpanzerwagen (AT version)
Not to mention the Wurfrahmen 40 which was mounted on either the 251 or captured foreign hardware like the Renault UE Chenillette or even the M3 Halftrack.
The German vehicles were direct support weapons and would bei merged in MEC stats.
 
Can we bomb or other means distroy silo to harm fuel stocpile ? For example can Japan bomb stocpile in Perl Harbor to paralize movment of US Navy ?

Can you fix a bug when pupets divizion are automaticaly given to player without his permission ? It mainly apears when fascist country meake a pupet. And there is no way to return this divizion tu pupet again and it ends like someone lunching a invazion on my pupet, this pupet have 20 divizions whitch stand and watch as enemy teake capital and meake country surennder.
 
Part of the reason for this was the feeling that a motorized artillery unit didn’t have enough of a drawback to be a meaningful choice - it would just be better than regular artillery, and the added cost of a handful of trucks was not a major issue if you were building trucks anyway.
They are, by and large, identical in firepower to their horse-drawn versions but require 50 trucks each, have a roughly 50% bigger supply footprint and, of course, require fuel to run properly.
Requiring 50 trucks is a significant drawback just by itself. That's roughly twice the production cost per battalion. Add to that the higher supply consumption and probably some terrain penalties. How this wouldn't have been a meaningful choice before introducing fuel is beyond me.
 
Can we bomb or other means distroy silo to harm fuel stocpile ? For example can Japan bomb stocpile in Perl Harbor to paralize movment of US Navy ?

Yes and no would be your answer.

The fuel stockpile is proportional to your number of states, infrastructure and fuel silos. So if you have a campaign of strategic bombing in the most developed states or against their fuel silos then yes, you can reduce your enemy fuel stockpile and paralyze their navy/army/air force.

Now, the game doesn't have a fuel supply system specific enough to be able to bomb Pearl Harbor silos and leave the US Pacific Fleet with fuel shortages. If America has fuel silos in Boston then the Pacific Fleet can operate without problems.

And they don't even need to build silos, because with their infrastructure and oil surplus America can stay in green for life.

Can you fix a bug when pupets divizion are automaticaly given to player without his permission ?

It is not a bug, integrated puppets and their facist equivalents cannot have an army so they give all their divisions to their overlord.
 
There is a key difference between the Napoleonic wars and WW2. During the era of Napoleon the entire Army marched together, in WW2 it was spread out over 1000:s of km on most fronts, especially if we talk about the German Army, and preferably also spread out using defense in depth behind own lines.


Okay so that is 15 ton of the 500 ton difference, where is the other 485 tons?


I'm hoping the devs have not made the mistake of representing fuel as a separate and parallel supply flow as they did in HoI3. It was a big mess with one Tank division having 100% fuel and 0% supply and the Tank division next to it having 0% fuel and 100% supply, and no way of controlling if fuel or supply should have priority or to what division which should go.

Since such a split in supply has not been mentioned in two fuel DDs ( and I have a hard time seeing them doing such a large chance without mentioning it ) I think we can assume that supply represents both still, which means motorized units should need more supply than non motorized.

4-6000 horses in an infantry division need to be spread over many square kms if they're going to be living off grass long term, and as I said that dispersion makes it difficult to use them for their daily supply hauling duties. In any case, over winter in many parts of Europe there is no grass to eat, so they need fodder.

Way to cherry pick data - just ignore that I said Allied divisions were 2-3 times larger than German ones in 44/45, and even though number of artillery tubes were comparable, the number of shells fired per gun was much higher for the Allies.

Yes the supply system in HOI3 is frustrating, in both its slow rate of moving 1 province per day and the arbitrary way in which one province may have a big surplus for weeks on end while the one next to it is completely out of supply. In HOI4, I'm hoping that fuel is substantially separate from general supply. Divisions have a fixed need for some supplies, mainly food, but fuel is variable depending on how much they're moving. So a motorised army that is dug in or building up planning etc should not be out of supply and suffering attrition because of a large fuel footprint, but it should come to a halt quickly if there isn't much capacity to replace fuel as fast as its used.

Ideally from my point of view there should be 3 categories of supply - general, fuel & ammo. General supply, needed to keep troops & horses alive etc, should have first demand against supply capacity, then fuel, ammo & replacements should have to use what's left. This would mean that having too many units at the end of a long supply chain would result in them withering away through losses that could not be replaced. Building up for offensives should take a long time if 90% of the supply capacity is used for food, as only 10% is available for ammo & fuel.
 
correct me if im wrong: high porcentage of fuel in UK mainland was refined in USA/Persia and send this way by tankers, so theres no a centrlized refineries in UK.

For some background and info - it's definitely the case that much of the fuel used in the UK was refined overseas (although prior to Jun '41 US imports were relatively minor, maxing out at 18.6 per cent of the total between Dec '40 and May '41). From Jun '41, US fuel/oil supplies steadily rose until they comprised around 75 per cent in 1943.

Britain did have significant domestic refining capacity (although only enough to meet around (very roughly) 15 per cent of local demand in the first year of the war), but the amount of fuel refined locally actually fell during the war because refining locally meant a greater volume of oil needed to be imported (I can look it up, but iirc they saved about 15% of volume on tankers by importing refined products rather than crude oil). Thus, refineries were left idle to save tanker space.

After Britain, the largest source of oil was from the Caribbean, where Island refineries took fuel from Venezuela and other nearby fields. Prior to US supply taking over the lions' share of imports, it was Caribbean fuel that formed the majority of imports to Britain. Imports from the Middle East (Iran and Eastern Med, which was largely Iraq but also included some oil from Romania, which Britain bought to try and keep it out of the hands of the Axis) but the Caribbean was the most important source, and had enough refining capacity alone to meet most of Britain's needs in the first years of the war.

British oil imports 1939-40.jpg


Sterling refineries 1939-45.jpg


OK - you can all go back to being more exciting now :).
 
Last edited:
I am scarred by this fuel change. I imagine it is kinda the same as alloys in Stellaris. In the end it will depend on how well it's balanced, can you support a army navy air force with natural\artificial production or are you so starved you can do nothing.
Perhaps you find my lack of faith disturbing talk me down I want to like this.
 
I am scarred by this fuel change. I imagine it is kinda the same as alloys in Stellaris. In the end it will depend on how well it's balanced, can you support a army navy air force with natural\artificial production or are you so starved you can do nothing.
Perhaps you find my lack of faith disturbing talk me down I want to like this.

Some nations, such as the US, could probably do whatever they wanted since they would have so much oil, and industrial capacity to build refineries. Germany on the other hand would likely struggle with it as they did in real life. But you're right, it will all depend on how it's balanced.