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EU4 - Development Diary - 21st of May 2019

Hey folks, it's time for another EU4 dev diary! My name's Mike, and like my good colleague @Caligula Caesar I've been part of the EU4 Content Design team since December. We've been working on a solid chunk of Europe, and it's time to start showcasing some of this work. As @neondt has mentioned before, we've had a lot of suggestions and feedback from the community, and through further earnest exchanges we've refined the map further.

But, before we get to the end, let's talk about the process quickly, because I know that's what you truly crave.


image1_smol.png


This image is what was used to pitch the idea of what would end up becoming the revised province layout in northern Italy. As you'll see in a moment, it differs from what we ended up with in a couple of ways- Como was added later, along with a split in another North Italian province. Province 5 was originally conceived as a separate Aquileia province (since the country still exists as a releasable in Friuli, it was tempting to see what could be done with it) but that idea was eventually discarded in favor of a new Trieste province.


image2_smol.png


Southern Italy developed much closer to what the original draft envisioned. The southern half of the Italian Peninsula has only a few additions, Avellino being the one that probably sticks out the most. The island of Sicily received a bit more attention, with the island's three provinces turning into five instead. Its new divisions were guided a little bit more by game design priorities than historical divisions, as historical divisions like Sicily's real province of Trapani had sizes and shapes that would have really stuck out like a sore thumb in EU4.

Unlike the northern Italian proposal, the southern Italian one was nearly implemented as-is. The biggest difference is that “Agrigento” had its name changed to “Girgenti”, which seemed more accurate for the period. Conversely, several proposed name changes to pre-existing provinces were not implemented, as they just didn't seem necessary upon review.


“Show us the new map already!” I can hear you guys politely demanding. Fine, fine!


italy_whole.png


Three new countries were added to the map as independent states. In the far north is the Prince-Bishopric of Trent, an Austrian country in control of an Italian province. To the west lies Saluzzo, nervously wedged between Savoy and France. In Romagna, Bologna is now an independent republic coveted by its neighbors.

Alongside these three countries are a couple new potential revolters. Padua and Verona now have cores on their respective provinces and can break away from Venice if the stars align, and Spoleto now exists as a core in Spoleto province, in case the Papal State's control of Central Italy ever starts to fall apart.

If we zoom in a little, more details reveal themselves.


northern italy.png


As the conversation linked at the start of this post highlights, Como originally was not considered, but after some discussion it became apparent that the inclusion of it (or at least something north of Milan) was called for. Thus, Como's complete contours now complement the comprehensive composition of that corner.

The creation of a separate Bologna province also prompted a revision of the remnant of old Romagna province; the old province's capital is now Ravenna, and Ravenna was taken by Venice in 1440 or 1441, so Romagna now starts off under Venetian rather than Papal control, although the Papacy does retain its core on the province. I'm sure this is fine and will definitely not be a source of tension between the two countries.


southern italy.png


Southern Italy was implemented essentially as described above. Sardinia received some attention and now includes Arborea as its own province on the west side of the island, but other Sardinian giudicati were not included primarily for the sake of balance- Sassari province in northern Sardinia has only 3/3/2 development as it is, and splitting that in two would create provinces with as little development as an Uzbek province in the Steppes.

Aside from the obvious mapwork, there is one other thing we added to southern Italy:

two_sicilies.png



And there you have it! Next week, we'll be talking about missions.
 
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Tried to improve it with barley no knowledge than use of an map from 1499.

Edit: I bet someone could do it better and with some good arguments.

Edit 2: I should have put Volterra in also.
 

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I've been reading diaries and ideas and debates about QoL fixes, map changes and mission trees on which I can't really comment about as it is not my area of expertise (I could have been useful in the Americas with First Nations history and culture but I don't think we will ever have such a DLC) for close to six months now, and I must say that I'm in dire need of some hype and after the mess that was GC, this is not doing it at all.
 
Sounds nice and all, but how will development end up being with the new system for the entire italy? I hope we don't end up beefing up what was already an heavily developed area...
 
I think you misunderstood what i meant: I was not objecting to the province culture being Venetian (although probably lombard would be more fitting since the central part of the province only recently became more "venetian like" languagewise and some of the eastern valleys are controlled by Venice and not by Trent), I was objecting to the tag's primary culture being austrian for no reason (I explained why in my first comment and from what you said I believe you actually agree with me).

You mean this?

In the far north is the Prince-Bishopric of Trent, an Austrian country in control of an Italian province.

I think they just meant Trent it's part of Austria.. whatever Austria ends up to be after this patch. Chance is it is split among the several Habsburg branches of the time, we'll see.

If indeed they mean that Trent primary culture is Austrian as you think... I honestly dunno what to think. The game has to paint things black or white for gameplay reasons, but Trent city was bilingual at the time and prince bishops mostly come from Germanic kingdoms in 1444. The "language issues" are mostly a modern time byproduct of the nationalistic propaganda campaigns of WW1 (and not just in Tirol, everywhere in Europe). That part of Tirol always had multi linguism in its DNA. Personally I would just give Trent tag the culture of its own province to represent this harmony. But the question is what happens if Trent gains land. Historically Trent never expanded and enjoyed large autonomy during EU4 and after EU4 was part of an empire that was similarly multi lingual by vocation. I can't imagine what would have happened to that multi linguism had the Bishops regained control over the Tirol Counts and expanded north in Germany or south in Italy. I guess they would probably choose to switch on the more convenient language. Maybe the devs chose to make Trent Austrian for game balance, to not give "Austria" a vassal to easily expand in northern Italy.
 
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I want to echo a few of the complaints people have made, because I sort of expected them as a minimum for an Italy update.
  1. Perugia and Ancona are not tags. While I can see concern over OPM creep, Italy is one place where a lot off OPMs are merited. Ancona would definitely have been an interesting addition, and Central Italy without Perugia feels wrong. I also expected an extra province in Ancona as well so the Pope could have an Adriatic coast (and because Ancona looks a bit big), but that's not strictly necessary.
    -
  2. Tuscia/Viterbo is not a province. As other people have said, I expected this over a southern province, but would have preferred both. The current division of Lazio looks really weird to me.
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  3. The Valtellina passes still don't exist. OTOH, the Poland update didn't add a pass between Bukovina and Transylvania, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I'm beginning to think that wastelands may not be the best way to represent strategic passes, especially in the Alps. I think there's some mod which represents them as akin to straits, which may be more appropriate, though I recognize that would be a huge overhaul that is unlikely to happen.
I was also really hoping for Aosta, Savona, and Piombino, with the latter two as tags, but I can accept their absence. However the omissions I listed above still seem really weird, and kind of disappointing.

Also want to say I like the signora suggestions, and think that would be a good way to handle the Pope's vassals. But I imagine you're not far into mechanics yet, so there's still a chance that might happen.
 
Missing Rimini and Perugia i think. Provinces for Piombino and Volterra would be welcome too.

Don't understand why we have Spoleto tag, an state that disappeared around 1230 (well, nominally existed as direct domain of the Pope until the XIX century), while we don't have Ravenna, Arezzo and Ancona as releseables.


Any news about dalmatian italians?
 
I like these Italian changes very much - but I am still disappointed that Switzerland didn't get more provinces. It should be the ultimate choke point in central Europe, with better ideas, a unique Canton government type, and mercenaries incorporated into their idea set. I am very much spoiled by Voltaires nightmare, but more could and should be done for it.
 
I have to say, having more seperation between Italy and Germany means Austria won't instantly take our Venice as they usually do. I'd like to see something that stops Venice dying to ottomans everything but on well.

Naples, Milan, Venice, Genoa, Tuscany and the Papal States would all benefit from new missions.
Naples about conquering Tunisia, Sicily, Sardinia and Greece.
Venice/Genoa about expanding their trade in the east and securing Byzantium.
Papal States about converting North Africa, defeating the reformation and taking back the holy land (DEUS VULT).
Tuscany and Sardinia-Piedmont about uniting Italy
Italy itself could have missions for uniting France and Iberia under it's rule as a new rome and removing Ottomans' claim to rûm.
 
Yes Kingdom of Two Sicilies

what reward does it give? Unique ideas? Claims? Rank? Missions?

They stated that they will go over missions in the next DD, so maybe next week? Also, I don't understand why people want rewards for taking land. The land you conquered is a reward, and with an inept AI, gaining land for you is far more profitable than for them. I know what these forums are like, and I'm not trying to agrue or patronize you, but what reward would you like to see? Just remember one thing, the more bonuses that this game adds to the player, on top of the existing ones, counter balances the "AI improvements" that we see.
Besides, you don't get 1, but TWO Sicilies. :)
 
I have only one thing to say:
Trieste needs to be a Free City in the Empire. I need it.
 
Ummmmm compared to how decent new Germany is, this is a bit underwhelming. :/

I hoped for more, at least in North Italy. Vicenza, Macerata, Piombino, Massa, Rimini, Benevento, all would have made fine additions of reasonable size

I would not say that the German region looks better. Look at Pomerania, the boundaries have not been redrawn, there is a shortage of Prince-Bishopric of Cammin which should appear in Pomerania and it is not there.
this is how the Pomorze will look like in the current update
upload_2019-5-6_13-46-21.png

Bishopric of Cammin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishopric_of_Cammin
this is what Pomerania looked like historically
350px-Bistum_Cammin_1400.png

The Duchy of Pomerania (yellow) in 1400, P.-Stettin and P.-Wolgast are indicated; purple: Secular area of the Cammin bishopric (BM. Cammin) and Teutonic Prussia; orange: Margraviate of Brandenburg; pink: duchies of Mecklenburg

The boundaries of Pomerania require redrawing


Changes in Silesia are also poorly made

Silesia at that time was fragmented into several countries. I do not want to add all of them.
-the first mistake is the bad location of cities in Silesia

Ratibor is located on the Odra River in the upper Odra valley. And on the map lies somewhere beyond

here a map with the exact location of cities
Mapa_20.jpg


and here is the map of the upcoming update
upload_2019-5-6_13-45-34.png



and this is my proposal for the division of Silesia

propozycja 1.png

This proposal better reflects the situation prevailing in Silesia.

At that time, the city of Breslau number 4, Swidnica number 5. They were under the direct control of the Kingdom of Bohemia.

province number 3 is Liegnitz. although it was an independent duchy that lasted until 1449. for the needs of the game, I gave it to the control of the Kingdom of Bohemia.
Elisabeth Hohenzollern ruled the duchy until 1449 and only after her death the local nobles rebelled and asked the Emperor Sigismund for help, so Sigismund incorporated the duchy into the kingdom of Bohemia.

the rest, or four countries in Silesia, are the vassals of the kingdom of Bohemia
Of course, their development may be weaker because after the Hussite wars in the destroyed Silesia, for a long time there was still political and legal chaos,and the population was persecuted by soldiers' bands and so-called. raubritter, or knights of brigands.







 
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Which I am on a crusade to remove. Areas should be three provinces minimum.

So Sicily went from 4 to 6 provinces. Does that mean that the Sicily state now includes 6 provinces (meaning that the max province per state was increased from 5 to 6) or they were split in 2 states?
 
So Sicily went from 4 to 6 provinces. Does that mean that the Sicily state now includes 6 provinces (meaning that the max province per state was increased from 5 to 6) or they were split in 2 states?

Two 3-prov areas, which is beyond bad in a game where Corruption From Territories is upheld by the devs.
 
Venice still remains to be this strange island?
I know its adding more strategic depth, but it doesn't really make sense that Venice is able to block armies with their huge fleet from the city.