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Martial 16 is the highest cutoff for combat tactic odds, so NPCs with martial over 16 are only more useful if they're the marshal with the martial stat providing some other bonuses linearly. So for characters over martial 16, the traits (like the ones you had, siege expert etc) are more important.
Combat tactics are only one side of the medal though. The martial stat represents a multiplier for each combat modifier.
As an example, if you set your 16 martial holy warrior against an infidel, he will deal less additional damage against a religious enemy than a 30 martial guy, who will be absolutely terrifying.
I once had a short run to see how strong a ruler designed character can be. Picked an Anglo-Saxon count in 867, made him a heretic and built him to full martial ability, then added a siege leader modifier.
Overran the isles easily. Within very, very short time any holding fell to his might. If the enemy is unable to take one castle before he's taken plenty of them, you know that more martial is always better.
Then there was my immortal with 40+ martial and all lodge commander traits. Enemies scattered before him like he was the god of war himself.
Combat tactics are only one side of the medal though. The martial stat represents a multiplier for each combat modifier.
As an example, if you set your 16 martial holy warrior against an infidel, he will deal less additional damage against a religious enemy than a 30 martial guy, who will be absolutely terrifying.
I once had a short run to see how strong a ruler designed character can be. Picked an Anglo-Saxon count in 867, made him a heretic and built him to full martial ability, then added a siege leader modifier.
Overran the isles easily. Within very, very short time any holding fell to his might. If the enemy is unable to take one castle before he's taken plenty of them, you know that more martial is always better.
Then there was my immortal with 40+ martial and all lodge commander traits. Enemies scattered before him like he was the god of war himself.
Martial 16 is the highest cutoff for combat tactic odds, so NPCs with martial over 16 are only more useful if they're the marshal with the martial stat providing some other bonuses linearly. So for characters over martial 16, the traits (like the ones you had, siege expert etc) are more important.
Interesting...does it affect personal combat rating cos they're all very good at that. My ruler I still very good martial and my 30 commander is the new marshal so that should be good.
This one I'm confused about. I've always played nomads so I don't have first hand experience, but shouldn't we do it at one point anyway? The vassals will not suddenly become weak or loyal in a decade or two and we need to start pushing to get there if we want feudalism in Eilif's reign, don't we? As per Wiki the Red; at the next level the council would vote on grants and revocation, and at the level after that on imprisonment, exile, and execution. After thaf feudalism is unlocked. For sure that it's not the prettiest thing to give them the right to vote on those but it's only for a decade or so, right?
Depends on your ruler, playstyle and luck, as well as how your vassals are. Put it this way, to correct all of those council laws to get back to absolute rule and thus control, you need to change eight laws. That takes 80 years. And requires each to pass first time, which probably won't happen unless you have a bath of cash for bribes. So...basically yeah, you do need to change over because it's the only really way to rule a large realm and get proper inheritance laws...but you have to be prepared for a few decades of peace/treasury build up/fighting with vassals to get these reforms through. Basically, in this case, I'd get to the realm size you want and then do the massive legal move. I'd probably recommend getting a solid kingdom title, getting everything amelgamated into that and then trying this.
Depends on your ruler, playstyle and luck, as well as how your vassals are. Put it this way, to correct all of those council laws to get back to absolute rule and thus control, you need to change eight laws. That takes 80 years. And requires each to pass first time, which probably won't happen unless you have a bath of cash for bribes. So...basically yeah, you do need to change over because it's the only really way to rule a large realm and get proper inheritance laws...but you have to be prepared for a few decades of peace/treasury build up/fighting with vassals to get these reforms through. Basically, in this case, I'd get to the realm size you want and then do the massive legal move. I'd probably recommend getting a solid kingdom title, getting everything amelgamated into that and then trying this.
We're 2 notches before we can feudalise, and after that Limited Crown Authority which gives ultimogeniture and abiity to revoke titles are 1 notch from the bottom. I mean, the realm would be more or less as manageable as now, wouldn't it be so? Do you remember from the top of your head which 8 laws need to be changed?
We're 2 notches before we can feudalise, and after that Limited Crown Authority which gives ultimogeniture and abiity to revoke titles are 1 notch from the bottom. I mean, the realm would be more or less as manageable as now, wouldn't it be so? Do you remember from the top of your head which 8 laws need to be changed?
All of the council laws after turning to feudalism will be enabling council power (unless Bullfilter has been a little dictator and forced them to change back every time he gives up power but im not sure thats allowed?) so all of those, at least up to declaring war, need to be changed back. Some people like having to convince the council for every war and getting the extra advisor slot.
Some people are mad. But it's a personal choice.
Oh, and this doesn't apply to this game but all the church laws default back to papal control for Christians.
One thing to add on piety - pagan county conquests can be a good way to get it fairly quickly. You get piety based on your war contribution, so you if you don’t call your vassals/allies you get more. It scales to either 50 or 100 (I forget which), on top of whatever you get for battles and sieges. And religion focus, raiding and blots are very good for piety as others have pointed out.
Id second that reforming to feudalism is a personal choice. I would say do it for a few reasons:
1) this is a learning saga, and it’s a new experience
2) the council mechanics that @TheButterflyComposer is talking about can indeed be frustrating, but I find them frustrating in a very immersive way if that makes sense. They make you think about your vassals.
3) not having elective gavelkind
4) pagan feudals can be extremely powerful because you have the better feudal levies + keep the ability to raid. In general feudalism is stronger for large realms, which you are at this point.
5) tribal mechanics have been completely reworked since this started, so with feudal you’ll be closer to the current game experience.
One last minor point - your council may not be willing to pass
Tribal authority laws now, but there is a large positive modifier for their willingness to do so once you reform the faith. Not sure you should wait until then if you want to do it in eilif’s lifetime though.
Also, i think someone asked about this, but it is not allowed to reduce council power as tribal, other than by reducing tribal authority. Once you’re feudal you can pass laws to reduce council powers one at a time, which of course they will fight tooth and nail.
Also, i think someone asked about this, but it is not allowed to reduce council power as tribal, other than by reducing tribal authority. Once you’re feudal you can pass laws to reduce council powers one at a time, which of course they will fight tooth and nail.
Right then, certainly a learning experienceas to true vassal mechanics and politics. You wont be abke to ignore them anymore when you do this. They'll be all powerful and you'll just be (hopefully) the richest and most powerful among equals.
And if you aren't clearly those things, don't do it until you are. You have to be capable of crushing all your vassals at once when tyrannically taking all the power back for yourself. And yes, this does give you massive opinion penalties as a tyrant.
NB: The Thing won't convene this time for just the one question, but the next one will be a Great Thing (), with plenty of time for responses and views.
Donations to the church, building churches and having the good opinion of churchmen gives large bonuses. Having holy stats like the 7 virtues, and as few of the 7 deadly sins as possible also aids your base monthly total. Also never be in debt, don't be tyrannical and treat prisoners well. For maximum results of course, you either need to join a religious society, pick the religious focus or holy war. Or all 3.
Hoping so, but they are a large realm bolstered by their holdings in the Lowlands, so it takes a while to reduce them sufficiently, even after they are effectively beaten. But we pretty much knew that going in to this.
IIRC, you should just be able to click the button for the job you want and drop the councilor onto the desired province, which should auto-cancel the job he's doing now. That should save you a step or two, at least..
Will try that next time (I think sometimes I must just click them in the wrong order - it just doesn't seem as intuitive or forgiving as most of the other mechanics. One wrong click or in the wrong order, and its the wrong mission set for six months!
TheButterflyComposer basically beat me to the punch here. I don't believe unreformed pagans have access to the "donate to the church" option, but other than that his list is pretty comprehensive.
Well, it was a pleasant surprise, anyway. I'd have been happy enough with another pragmatist. The opinion buffs must have been enough to tip him to Loyalist.
Well, to be properly traditionally CK2 a summer fling should result in a child and cause a lot of interest in going on and what-not. Of course sometimes the game does go the other way, but I kinda hope it doesn't. I think there might be some rather interesting consequences of a fruitful fling.
Nearly everything went well here. Things are looking good right now. Both on the battlefield and at home.
Eirikr's all but defeated, and there's a claim on Naumadal too.
Tyuey may have died and his son not exactly be a good terms with Eilif, but the vote has finally ended! (Poor Ingrid though.) And Eilif could again move against Dyre at his own gain. Both Dyre recognizing Eilif's child as his own and he realizing he's been cuckolded would be great outcomes here, too .
Yes, a good passage of play in general for Eilif. And that Naumadl claim was a great boon coming so early. It raises a new option for Eilif if/when he can close out this war. Go straight on to that with his tribal army still raised, or pass and go raiding instead? As for the consequences of Eilif's fling ... I'll keep all in suspense.
I've always thought that the piety gain is for the one who actually marries. If Eilif hasn't raised a runestone yet, it's an easy way to gain piety. Blots are especially useful if sacrificing abrahamic prisoners. Raiding raises prestige (and MA if targeting infidel temples), but it can be very useful to acquire said prisoners .
Yeah, I really don't know myself re the marriage boost. It could well be for the participants. I will try to do a before-and-after experiment at the next opportunity. Yes, the Runestone will be a definite option, once it can be afforded. A blot will be useful too - I wish the Bloody Bishop had fallen into my clutches rather than Tyuey's! Though I'll need to wait for the right time of year and a period of peace ... the timing of which could be up in the air.
Action packed episode in which nearly everything went perfect but a few more from the old guard falls prey to our common enemy time. There were the days I loathed Tyuey, but by now I really started to like him. And now there's his son whom I despise even more than the old him. Strange times.
Yes, Tyuey grew on Eilif, too. Though he was quite worried about his comparative power, the loss against Barsbek the Liberator diminished that fear, too.
I'm leaving him up my sleeve for now - a good balance of glory seekers could come in handy when it comes to declaring war against larger opponents the pragmatists may baulk at. I suspect I may change him if on some war vote I need to change the balance. And he could well become a loyalist, like Buthli did, I guess.
I thought maybe so, if there is a delay between being able to enact those changes. Current problem is it would get voted down, I think. Then there's more discussion of the feudalism question below.
I think it's because it satisfied the "get married" ambition but I'm not 100% sure about this. About other ways to collect piety, I think you made a good list. There's a theology focus (I was so sure you'd select that one) that has some piety generating event chains if I'm not mistaken but there's 5 years before Eilif gets to pick his focus again, I guess?
Ah, I didn't think of the possibility of piety events. I just looked at the monthly modifier and didn't think it looked that useful. Inexperience showing through (not ever having played a theology focus yet). I shoulda known!
I want to get the temple run by a Germanic seer again, too. Though for reform purposes, it doesn't seem to affect control of the site, which still goes to the ultimate liege, I think (according to the religion screen, anyway).
I never had much experience with non player commanders up until my latest game, as having a ruler with good martial stats (or to be honest, terrible ones) leading an army is way more fun. Then I was a minor nation at war with a Goliath and decided to open my court up to everyone who could swing a sword vaguely in the right direction. This has eventually led to an army led by a faceless 30 martial doom warrior who can kill anything, a 24 martial siege expert, and his brother, who is slightly worse at sieges at 23 martial but is 20 years younger. These don't make defeat impossible but they narrow the tech advantage of for example early Muslim factions and are worth (based on their victories against larger armies) a few thousand men each.
Yes, I used Rurik that way (he had insane stats all round, especially martial) - but then he had that 'indident' in Italy. Given the elective gavelkind in force and the somewhat iffy succession situation of late, Ive been very reluctant to risk Eilif in combat when I have so may other good commanders to use. Though Eilif's martial stats are 'masterful' level by now. Part of me thinks he should be the valiant Viking leader risking combat constantly. The other part thinks 'No, not necessary, there's now a large realm to run. Leave it to the deputies.'
Paradox have changed how this works for tribal rulers. Now if you do it legally, you fully empower the council. So for god's sake, don't do this without a really strong personal land group, and really loyal or weak vassals. Eventually you will have to probably transfer to feudalism (especially if you want to form a bigger kingdom like Russia) but right now? For a beginner? You'd be ramping up the difficulty by a couple of notches just by doing the legal chain necessary, and then have to learn a new system whilst debuffed to an absurd degree.
I get what you're saying here, but really the main objective of reforming the Germanic faith (though I understand it would bring significant benefits by itself) has been to enable feudalism, and therefore to get out of the dreaded elective gavelkind. And then also form a large Russian (Norse style) realm before the Mongols arrive. More feudalism discussion below. If, when the time to decide that approaches, there are arguments to not go there after all (ie cure worse than the disease) I'll listen to them. Even at the current low levels of empowerment, the Council has been a bit of a pain, though I'm slowly coming to grips with it. No-one said the learning experience needs to be easy!
Depending upon the religion, it unlocks possibility of pilgrimage, celibacy, scholarly retreats, better relation with churchmen event chains, seclusion event chains and a boost to piety and health scores. For Christians jointing a religious society, it is pretty much the required focus for the duration of your time in the society...which in practice means you aren't changing focus again with that character.
I think the Norse equivalent would have been a good idea. Ah well, if I'm still looking for more piety when I can next change focus, I'll seriously consider it.
Martial 16 is the highest cutoff for combat tactic odds, so NPCs with martial over 16 are only more useful if they're the marshal with the martial stat providing some other bonuses linearly. So for characters over martial 16, the traits (like the ones you had, siege expert etc) are more important.
This one I'm confused about. I've always played nomads so I don't have first hand experience, but shouldn't we do it at one point anyway? The vassals will not suddenly become weak or loyal in a decade or two and we need to start pushing to get there if we want feudalism in Eilif's reign, don't we? As per Wiki the Red; at the next level the council would vote on grants and revocation, and at the level after that on imprisonment, exile, and execution. After thaf feudalism is unlocked. For sure that it's not the prettiest thing to give them the right to vote on those but it's only for a decade or so, right?
Noted re the martial stuff. On feudalism, this is an interesting and useful discussion. Reformed Germanic (as opposed to Norse converted Christian) might be a slightly different experience for feudalism. If it could be done later in Eilif's reign, when he is most powerful and popular plus would be the Falkyr by then too, the Council hassle could be worth it, perhaps?
Combat tactics are only one side of the medal though. The martial stat represents a multiplier for each combat modifier.
As an example, if you set your 16 martial holy warrior against an infidel, he will deal less additional damage against a religious enemy than a 30 martial guy, who will be absolutely terrifying.
I once had a short run to see how strong a ruler designed character can be. Picked an Anglo-Saxon count in 867, made him a heretic and built him to full martial ability, then added a siege leader modifier.
Overran the isles easily. Within very, very short time any holding fell to his might. If the enemy is unable to take one castle before he's taken plenty of them, you know that more martial is always better.
Then there was my immortal with 40+ martial and all lodge commander traits. Enemies scattered before him like he was the god of war himself.
Interesting! I did think Rurik (with his around 29 martial and a couple of bonus traits as well) was going to be more imposing than he was in combat, but part of that could have been the early and light forces he had under his command.
Interesting...does it affect personal combat rating cos they're all very good at that. My ruler I still very good martial and my 30 commander is the new marshal so that should be good.
Depends on your ruler, playstyle and luck, as well as how your vassals are. Put it this way, to correct all of those council laws to get back to absolute rule and thus control, you need to change eight laws. That takes 80 years. And requires each to pass first time, which probably won't happen unless you have a bath of cash for bribes. So...basically yeah, you do need to change over because it's the only really way to rule a large realm and get proper inheritance laws...but you have to be prepared for a few decades of peace/treasury build up/fighting with vassals to get these reforms through. Basically, in this case, I'd get to the realm size you want and then do the massive legal move. I'd probably recommend getting a solid kingdom title, getting everything amelgamated into that and then trying this.
We're 2 notches before we can feudalise, and after that Limited Crown Authority which gives ultimogeniture and abiity to revoke titles are 1 notch from the bottom. I mean, the realm would be more or less as manageable as now, wouldn't it be so? Do you remember from the top of your head which 8 laws need to be changed?
All of the council laws after turning to feudalism will be enabling council power (unless Bullfilter has been a little dictator and forced them to change back every time he gives up power but im not sure thats allowed?) so all of those, at least up to declaring war, need to be changed back.
Some people like having to convince the council for every war and getting the extra advisor slot. Some people are mad. But it's a personal choice.
Oh, and this doesn't apply to this game but all the church laws default back to papal control for Christians.
The war declaration problem (to isolate out one that has been current) should now be fine with a balanced council. With my casting vote and a loyalist, it should be possible now to engineer both small and large wars by siding with one or the other bloc. And, perhaps after a war (sooner or later) with Noregr for Naumadl, I think we'd be looking at a longer period of peace (at least not initiating a lot of wars), raiding, consolidation and tamping down of threat levels. I won't be gamey in manipulating legal shenanigans, but am happy to use any reasonable artifice to help the ruler of the day get their way.
One thing to add on piety - pagan county conquests can be a good way to get it fairly quickly. You get piety based on your war contribution, so you if you don’t call your vassals/allies you get more. It scales to either 50 or 100 (I forget which), on top of whatever you get for battles and sieges. And religion focus, raiding and blots are very good for piety as others have pointed out.
Id second that reforming to feudalism is a personal choice. I would say do it for a few reasons:
1) this is a learning saga, and it’s a new experience
2) the council mechanics that @TheButterflyComposer is talking about can indeed be frustrating, but I find them frustrating in a very immersive way if that makes sense. They make you think about your vassals.
3) not having elective gavelkind
4) pagan feudals can be extremely powerful because you have the better feudal levies + keep the ability to raid. In general feudalism is stronger for large realms, which you are at this point.
5) tribal mechanics have been completely reworked since this started, so with feudal you’ll be closer to the current game experience.
One last minor point - your council may not be willing to pass
Tribal authority laws now, but there is a large positive modifier for their willingness to do so once you reform the faith. Not sure you should wait until then if you want to do it in eilif’s lifetime though.
Also, i think someone asked about this, but it is not allowed to reduce council power as tribal, other than by reducing tribal authority. Once you’re feudal you can pass laws to reduce council powers one at a time, which of course they will fight tooth and nail.
They are persuasive arguments, well put! Point 3) is a big one! Point 4) looks good too - being able to still raid will be excellent.
Once the war with Sweden is done, I'll have a look at the possibilities and timings for legal reform towards feudalism. I suspect I'd need to take some additional steps to 'persuade' council members to support it - of find ones that will, without creating too many nasty enemies. I also suspect buying a few favours would be necessary, so that means money. Which means raiding. If Eilif can at least reform the faith during his reign, that would be something.
This will be tackled subsequently, but assuming Eilif wins this war, he gains the Kingdom of Sweden. Which, unless something is done to change things, would be split away again to a different heir under elective gavelkind? This is a variation on a discussion we've had previously on getting too many counties from a de jure kingdom and having it auto-generate and split on succession.
Sweden splitting would mean I lose the three holy sites again, though at least the faith would have been reformed by then (I'm hoping). Food for later thought and consideration ... some more water needs to go under the bridge first, though if there are preparatory steps I need to start taking soon, any suggestions welcomed.
Right then, certainly a learning experienceas to true vassal mechanics and politics. You wont be abke to ignore them anymore when you do this. They'll be all powerful and you'll just be (hopefully) the richest and most powerful among equals.
And if you aren't clearly those things, don't do it until you are. You have to be capable of crushing all your vassals at once when tyrannically taking all the power back for yourself. And yes, this does give you massive opinion penalties as a tyrant.
I'm happy to risk things in the learning process: if it kills the dynasty off (or emasculates it - sorry, Rurik ) in the doing, then so be it. I think the broad course is set. But, as in all good comedy, timing is everything!
All:Well along on the write-up of the next chapter. As mentioned elsewhere, this will be the last update before the AAR goes on a month-plus pause while I travel to England to indulge one of my other passions - playing on a four week 'veterans' (age, not combat!!) cricket tour!
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Chapter 79: A Game of Crowns - Part 2 (18 March – 27 September 902)
Chapter 79: A Game of Crowns - Part 2 (18 March – 27 September 902)
Previously, on Blut und Schlacht … after a succession of victories, Eilif has King Eirikr of Sviþjod on the ropes, but there is still fighting to be done to force the hoped-for subjugation; Eilif has already forgotten his short fling with his brother Dyre’s visiting wife Elin – he is now absorbed by the hunt for the legendary White Bear; and he is also concerned for his mother, who returned to Nygarðr in a sad state of incapacity and is now confined to bed.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
March-April 902
Þorsteinn, still commanding the main tribal and vassal army, was fresh from his destruction of the Swedish field army at the Battle of Alfheimr on 18 March. He marched straight back to the county of Dal, to begin the further conquest of Swedish provinces now needed to convince King Eirikr to surrender.
Just over a week later, Sverker completed the siege of Öland tribe on 26 March without losing any men. His next task was to march to Götland, to reduce the tribal holding and then the rich temple of Visby.
The next month was spent in marching and siege-work. Dal was taken by Þorsteinn on 29 April, with the loss of 61 besiegers. He then set off north to Vermaland.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
May 902
“King Eilif,” announced Gumarich one mid-May afternoon. “I present a delegation of village elders from your loyal county of Torzhok.”
“Thank you, Gumarich. Good folk, welcome to my court. What is your business today?”
“Sire,” their leader says, respectfully but proudly. “I come to advise you that the entire county has renounced its old Russian ways and has now embraced Norse culture. Praise to Odin and honour to all the Gods!”
“Wonderful news! Gumarich, see these good men are feasted tonight, at my expense. Break out the mead – I will be there myself to share a horn or dozen with them!”
Three days later, Þorsteinn arrived in Vermaland to find a small group of Swedish soldiers camped, unheeding of their approach, outside the fort. All 23 were killed in a very brief skirmish, without loss. The siege of the tribal hold began. On 25 May, Þorsteinn sent two of the vassal regiments – the Ingrians (156 men) and Smaleskjans (649) – across to Sverker to assist with his sieges.
Meanwhile, a fleet of 17 Swedish galleys that had appeared off Ingria (and been judiciously ignored by Eilif) landed its passengers on 26 May: not a force of 1,700 screaming Swedish raiders, but 45 bedraggled men. All they could do would be to raid a few chicken coops and hope they were not caught and killed before the war ended.
Then at the very end of the month, King Eirikr himself landed with a small force in Vestergautland from some galleys anchored in the Kattegat. They started making for Nerike – and were allowed to do so. Neither of the Garðarikian commanders wished to break their sieges: if the Swedes stopped to try to retake a holding, then someone could be sent to stop them. It was territory that was more important now.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
June 902
While these events had been unfolding, King Eilif himself had spent time preparing for and then embarking on a special hunt. He had taken his Lawspeaker and would-be Steward, Sumarliði Olafrsson, with him to record the events. On 8 June, when Sumarliði present the bound manuscript of the Tale of the White Bear, Eilif formally appointed him as Royal Scribe. After a career that had begun as secretary to Rurik back in January 867 AD, more than 35 years later old Gumarich der Schreiber was able to retire to his books and stories.
After hearing rumours of the supposedly mythical beast back in the cold days of December, a reported sighting of the White Bear in Chud at the beginning of March had Eilif making plans and gathering companions for the hunt. They set out on 30 April, with high hopes of finding the creature – and killing it, of course!
But it was not to be. By early June, it was clear the White Bear – if it had ever been in Chud at all – had eluded them. Along the way, Eilif had been presented with a fleshly temptation one evening. Perhaps mindful of his earlier lapse with Dyre’s wife and also of his ambition to reform the faith and become its leader, he eschewed the offer. He would now pursue a virtuous life (though not a fully abstinent one), concentrating more on intellectual pursuits and becoming more pious in the ways of the Old Gods. The hunt ended a week later – but Eilif remained keen to find the White Bear one day – which inspired him to even greater strength of martial purpose.
Eilif was consoled in the failed hunt by his loyal dog Hunter. Things seemed that much better with his loyal friend by his side.
Þorsteinn completed his siege of Vermaland on 21 June, without any loss. Eirikr’s small force was in Nerike by then – Þorsteinn struck west to intercept him. But Eirikr managed to slip away before his pursuers could corner him.
While this last (he hoped) phase of the war played out, a message arrived from the Christian west. It seemed the 'Age of Crusades' had not started well for the Catholics.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
July 902
It was a warm and lazy summer afternoon. Eilif relaxed in Nygarðr after a day of hunting and pious contemplation of the ways of the Gods. A sealed letter had arrived from far Britannia.
I wonder what Hakon has been up to this time, Eilif pondered as he cracked the seal. Or perhaps Dyre has had a ‘hunting accident’, he chuckled to himself. Or even Halfdan stuffing up his new position, like the old days of Könugarðr.
He opened the latter …
There had been an accident with Dyre … but not one that Eilif had been expecting. The good news was that Dyre did not suspect anything. The bad news was Eilif had unwittingly given him an heir after Dyre had proven unable to produce one himself! The Christians might have labelled it the wages of sin. Eilif just shrugged and laid it at the feet of the Gods. One in particular.
“By Loki’s Tumescent Trouser-Serpent! That’s what I get, I suppose.”
With the fall of Gotland tribe on 25 July, Sverker (again having suffered no losses during this substantial siege) went on to the siege of the large Temple ofVisby. Þorsteinn had by then cornered Eirikr’s company in Sudermanland and would catch them this time before they could scamper away again.
The battle of Sudermanland started the next day – and by the end of 26 July, one of the Swede's two divisions was already in flight. The rest were running by 30 July and the pursuit was on.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
August 902
It was the early hours of a balmy, early August morning. The ‘dog watch’. Eilif was seated at his mother’s bed. He had been dozing lightly, but had been woken by one of the Queen Mother’s ladies – a companion from her long years in Constantinople.
“Sire,” she said gently. “I think it is time.”
Eilif awoke. His mother’s breathing had become fluttery, almost imperceptible. He held her hand and squeezed gently but found no response. Ingjerðr had not woken in some days and had quickly wasted away. She inhaled and breathed out again, almost imperceptibly.
Eilif waited, but there was no subsequent intake of breath. At only 52 years of age, the last tangible link to the first days of Rurik’s reign had left this world. She was mourned; a great pyre was built to send her spirit to the Gods.
Seven days later, the funeral ale was drunk and the court returned to a semblance of normality. But Eilif was, of course, subtly changed by this event. He now truly was not just the king, but the elder member of the Rurikid clan.
Later on the same day that Eilif’s mother went to the Gods, the pursuit of the Swedes in Sudermanland ended early: because every one of them had been killed, for the loss of only four of Þorsteinn’s men in the initial skirmish. But Eirikr escaped, spirited away by local villagers. A legend arose (put around no doubt by Garðarikian detractors) that he was smuggled away dressed as an old crone, but this is probably apocryphal. The war still limped on.
On 8 August, Þorsteinn headed north to Járnberaland, to continue the occupation of the holds of Eirikr 'the Crone', as his soldiers mischievously began calling him. As August drew to a close, Eilif was alerted to the fact he needed to appoint a new regent. This honour was granted to his nephew Jarl Buðli, who was now more loyal than ever. though it seemed the stress of his position had taken a toll. He also complained of sharp and persistent headaches.
“Probably nothing – I must keep working as hard as ever,” he said when his concerned wife asked him about it and his clearly deteriorating health.
Uh oh: “Probably nothing?” Sounds like a grim understatement to me …
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
September 902
By now, the Garðarikians were becoming impatient for an end to the war. Þorsteinn arrived in Járnberaland on 7 September. When he saw there was only a garrison of 188 present, he decided to assault immediately. After a three-day fight, the hold was his, for the loss of only 24 men [war score still only 96%]. He set off for his next target: Helsingland.
The very next day, Visby fell to Sverker, again with no loss. This advanced the Garðarikian cause significantly [after the temples of Skara with 3.71% and Uppsala at 3.28%, Visby provided the third highest war score with 2.8%, bringing the total war score to 99%]. But it still did not end the war.
When Þorsteinn made it to Helsingland in late September, he again wasted no time in assaulting the walls. It was soon over, with 71 attackers dead. It was now crystal clear that Eirikr was beaten.
Since 18 March, in the final phase of the campaign Þorsteinn’s army had once again ranged widely over Sweden, while Sverker had concentrated on the larger sieges in the islands of the south-east.
Most of the Swedish heartland had been occupied and only scattered companies remained in the field.
Finally, it was time for Eilif to enforce his demands. And for Eirikr to admit he was totally beaten.
Garðariki was now clearly the most powerful of the Norse realms, with Eilif King of both Garðariki and Sviþjod. And two holy wars the Christians had been waging against Eirikr for Brabant and Flanders were ended.
Eirikr remained a powerful landowner now that he had bent the knee. But that certainly did not make him a happy man! He had hardly any levies left to his name, and a daughter and his three concubines were still being detained by his new king. He had also been permanently disfigured fighting during the war – and then ridiculed by his enemies after after his escape from Sudermanland! Eilif did not despise his new Jarl – but Eirikr’s enmity for Eilif would not be easily or quickly assuaged.
With the war won, the royal levies were dismissed and the vassal ally regiments began to disperse. But the tribal army remained active. It would need to be used straight away or would also disperse. Eilif would take advice before launching straight into another potentially long war. It was tempting, but needed to be considered carefully.
In the privacy of Eilif’s stateroom, his nephew Buðli reported to his uncle the King on the situation now Sweden had been subjugated.
“Uncle Eilif, this victory has been a great one. But it has consequences for how we are regarded - as a threat. It will take years for this antipathy to abate. There are no pacts against us yet, but I expect them to start forming shortly. And at the moment, when they do, those of all but the Germanic religion would band against us if we attacked one member.”
“I see, Buðli. So, if we wished it, we could attack Noregr, even with these pacts formed, and not suffer their combined wrath, as they are of our same Germanic faith?”
“Yes, for now Uncle. But if our perceived threat to others rises too much further, even our co-religionists may join in against us later.”
“Then your key task from now is to use your statecraft to decrease that threat as quickly as possible. It may also persuade some of our many vassals to have a higher opinion of the crown – always to be welcomed.”
Ch79 Q1: Threat.To confirm I’m reading this right, if I was to attack Noregr straight away, the only effect would be to fight their King and anyone else he may have an alliance with (principally, probably exclusively, his own vassals). Though another victory (which would be limited to the claim on Naumadl) would no doubt raise the threat level further. I’m not sure by how much. Is there a tooltip that tells you before you declare war? Or if not, an idea of the ballpark % it would likely add?
Turning to simpler matters of court appointments first, Eilif was able to fill his Court Physician slot, which had been vacant for some time. And he had two of his new Swedish jarls to choose from – both well-disposed to him. He reflected it was nice to have some many new vassals of the ‘right’ culture and faith; and these two even looked rather like him! Jarl Rikulfr was given the job – which would further boost his opinion of his new liege.
In considering what to do next – attack Noregr or settle for peace and some serious raiding – Eilif realised the mistake he had made earlier by awarding Austerbotn to his young son Styrkar. He looked at the number of ships he would have at his disposal – and saw that many of them were no longer available as [due to somewhat artificial game mechanics IMHO ] he could not direct his own young son to provide them for raiding duty.
This led him to consider revoking the title from his son and replacing it with another – that did not come with ships or a large levy!
“Buðli, in strictest confidence, you see the predicament I have placed myself in. What would the political cost be for me if I were to revoke Austerbotn from Styrkar and give him another county instead?”
“Well Uncle, you may be heir to the county still, but you do not have a specific claim on it. Therefore, its revocation would be seen as unjust and worrying by all your vassals. Styrkar would of course be upset, but that could be allayed by granting him another title. The question is, would the extra 13 longboats be worth the loss of prestige and enmity in would bring?”
“A good question, Buðli, and one I must consider carefully.”
Ch79 Q2: Revocation of Austerbotn.There you have it – in an epic own goal, I unthinkingly signed away one third of my newly acquired fleet by granting the county to Styrkar when I went ‘over the limit’ of titles. Sigh. This would limit the size of the force I’d be able to send raiding. But the revocation without a claim would antagonise my now very many vassals (we meet the main ones below). Any thoughts here?
Buðli then changed the subject and pointed out that one of Eilif’s new Jarls, Rikulfr of Upper Lorraine, retained claims in that area [former Swedish possessions, if my memory is not mistaken] that could be pressed on his behalf.
“Interesting, but I think not to ‘stir the pot’ so violently among my new Christian neighbours in that part of the world. Yet, anyway. They seem very prone to holy wars and I do not want to risk the holy site of Tholen in Zeeland before we have reformed the faith. It will have to wait.”
“Of course, Uncle – I agree. Next item, we have received news from the new Spymaster Elin in Constantinople.”
“Ah, a new discovery?”
“Yes, but of an unpleasant kind. She is suffering from the measles, some kind of pox that is now rampant in the great city.”
“Oh dear! It can’t spread here, can it?”
“For now it seems to be isolated down there.”
“Let’s keep it that way! I do hope she recovers soon, but we can’t afford for it to spread in our realm.”
As Buðli left, Queen Ingrid arrived for a short visit and to consult with Eilif about his plans to reform the faith.
After some private (and unrecorded) discussion and 'catching up', Sumarliði was brought in to take notes – which would one day form part of the Rurikid scroll trove.
“Husband, as has been discussed a number of times in the past, to reform the faith you need to control three of the holy sites – you now hold two of them – and be seen as a greatly pious ruler. You are already one third of the way to the latter, by my estimate. Also, the moral authority of the faith must be high – and it is. Even with the Bloody Bishop still nominally in control of Uppsala, the faith is seen as being quite strong at the moment. Replacing him with a true Germanic seer would improve things further.”
“Thank you, Ingrid. So, holding Naumadl and pursuing pious goals. These are the two missions I must now address.”
“They are, Eilif. And the religious scholars from the last Þing have provided a number of options for increasing your piety quickly in the eyes of the Gods. Here is a list you can review later, at your leisure.” Eilif scanned it before putting it to one side.
“Hmm, a Runestone eh? It would cost 100 gold – which I can now afford – but how much would that boost my piety? And could I simply wait until later when I am approaching the goal, to tip things over?” “I will consult the next Þing, Eilif. But here is an explanation of the benefits to be gained, depending on to whom it is dedicated - yourself or your father.”
This from the Wiki: Triggers the Runestone event chain giving 100-300 prestige as well as a bonus to general relations for two years.
May choose to commemorate a deceased parent or to proclaim one of their own traits. When memorialising a parent, the Prestige gain depends on the way they died:
300 for death in battle;
250 for death in a duel (Holmgang);
100 for death by suicide or at the child's own hands;
200 for any other cause of death.
When proclaiming traits, the Prestige gain depends on the trait chosen:
300 for Brave, Genius, Shrewd, Strong, Attractive, Proud, or Quick;
100 for Lunatic, Possessed, or Imbecile;
200 for any other trait, or no trait.
Comment: so either way, it looks like a 200 piety boost for Eilif – not bad!
Ch79 Q3: Runestone.It says ‘event chain’, so I’m thinking it may take a little while to pan out. Should I do this now, or wait until closer to the time? I have 258 gold in the coffers again, so ordering one now would leave me with 158: should be enough to fund another war (if Eilif does that instead of raiding), but after last time, I’m being careful. It could also pay for a mercenary band in extremis, so if I don’t need to do it now, I could hold off.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Council Meeting
The other Councillors (or their representatives) then gathered as a group. Attention was turned to the question of Naumadl and whether to take advantage of the still largely intact tribal army to launch an attack to conquer the holy site. Of course, Noregr itself would need to be defeated – and it was a substantial kingdom. Though the current King Olafr was not as formidable as his father, ‘the Conqueror’. He was (like Eirikr had been) defending against (and so far winning) a Holy War launched by Luxemburg, for which he had raised his own tribal army.
As things stood, and comparisons of vassal allies aside, Eilif would have the edge in terms of their respective levies. But there would be war against Noregr in the Lowlands (where Olafr presumably had his main force at the moment) as well as in the north.
Marshal Vihavald of Ingria made the first comment of the meeting.
“My King, I think as things stand we would probably be able to carry the day in the north. With the tribal army well positioned under Þorsteinn, we could gain a quick advantage on Olafr’s heartland. Sverker could march over with the Huscarls and will help with the reduction of enemy forts. But the royal levies would take longer to assemble and march over, meaning the ‘regulars’ would be on their own for a while.”
“And vassal support?”
“Many of the new Swedish lords are actually well disposed to your rule, My King. Not all, of course. But their levy numbers have been devastated in the recent war, so there may not be that many to respond in the short term. Many of your Garðarikian vassals would likely answer the call again, as usual. But they would take even longer to assemble. And we have looked more closely at the position in Europe. If Olafr won quickly against Luxembourg or simply switched his effort against us instead, he may wreak havoc in your new possession – around Zeeland. There is a map I will present a little later that shows where we believe his main army is currently operating.”
“Important points to consider. What of the risk of these Christians deciding to launch their own holy war against me over the new lands in Europe? They’ve proven willing enough to do so against Eirikr and Olafr. If that happens while we’re fighting amongst ourselves, it could prove difficult. I don’t want to unduly risk Zeeland.”
“True, My King. But of what practical use is Zeeland if you can’t also gain Naumadl and the Temple of Mære? My advice would be to strike Noregr now, while things are in place and Olafr is distracted. But I can seek the views of the Þing on this to assist with our deliberations.”
“Good thinking, Vihavald.”
Ch79 Q4: Naumadl.Any important considerations here I haven’t seen? And what do you think: attack now, or wait for Olafr to finish his war, disband his own tribal army, taking him down in slower time while I raid, build piety and let the Swedish vassals rebuild their strength? And also see if the Christians try to hit me early, as they were attacking Eirikr?
“By the way, King Eilif," continued Vihavald. "Dan ‘the Frog’ has been hired again. The good news is that will send a little gold back into the treasury. The bad news is Jorvik seems to have bled the Novgorodian Band heavily using them in some war over Shropshire in Britannia. I thought you might be interested to know.”
“Thank you, you're right. At least they’re being employed. But if we do hire someone again, it won’t be them for a while, that’s clear enough.”
Chancellor Buðli was the next to speak.
“Uncle, there has been movement in the realm’s succession positioning of late. Your brother has faded from the memory and favour of the electors. Only Chief Ukko – the troublemaker – now supports him. And of course Dyre now has no vote of his own. My own brother Rikulfr has a large following. I myself have managed to attract some support. And young Styrkar, being a minor as yet, has just your own vote.”
Ch79 Q5: Succession – Eilif’s Vote.Any views as to whether I should ‘get with the strength’ and vote for Rikulfr? Or perhaps pitch in for Buðli to see if I can swing some favour in his direction? The latter certainly appeals for role-play and sentiment purposes. Clearly, there’s not a lot of point voting for Styrkar yet, until he reaches his majority.
“Useful to know this, Buðli. At least Dyre is now almost our of mind as well as being out of sight. I will take my own counsel on where my own vote should remain. What of the Swedish succession?”
“As far as I can confirm, it would be resolved under our realm's elective gavelkind rules. Styrkar is first in line, then me, followed by my own son Helgi. The rest are indicated on this list here. But however the succession may change, I believe under our current rules Sweden would once again become independent under whoever succeeds to that crown.”
“Hakon! Dyre! I hope it never comes to that!” exclaimed Eilif as he looked down the list.
Ch79 Q6: Swedish Succession.As discussed in response to previous comments and in the light of this, do I have the right of it here? Sweden would split under a separate king in an elective gavelkind succession? Anything else I should be bearing in mind there, or a legal or practical nature?
“And finally, Uncle, here is a list of your most powerful vassals in the newly enlarged realm. There are a few smaller ones that could not be fitted into this first depiction, that ranks them by their strength relative to yours. So I have provided a full list of all of them below that, ranked in order of our assessment of their disposition towards you.”
Comment: Ex-King - now Jarl - Eirikr (naturally) aside, the next two most powerful (Nishkepaz and the new Swedish vassal Bertil) weren’t that bitterly opposed, and it was largely because of their ambitions to be on the Council. Funnily enough, because they are mainly Norse and Germanic, many of the new jarls are better disposed than the Slavic-Russian Garðarikian vassals! Incidentally, a -15 malus for revoking Austerbotn would only swing Frirek of Ghent into negative opinion. It would lessen the margin on all the positive vassals and increase the animosity of those already opposed. There is also a ‘Brabantian Revolt’ leader – Eilif will have to look into that …
“This ‘Brabantian Revolt? What is happening there, Vihavald?”
“It is led by the Chief of Breda against his liege, Jarl Bertil. Bertil seems to have the numbers and is winning. But the area seems very active. Here is a map. As I mentioned before, we have located Noregr’s forces in their war against Luxemburg – right on our new borders. The local levies of our vassals in that area appear to be quite strong – not subject to the same destruction as visited on those in Sweden proper in the recent war.”
“I see this is an area we will be getting more acquainted with, perhaps sooner rather than later,” sighed Eilif.
“Yes, My King. But one advantage of keeping some possessions there would be for raiding: instead of having to make it all the way back to Ingria, as we used to, it should be possible to finish a raid there if it has been in the general vicinity. The treasure could be accepted in one of the ports and men and fleets dispersed safely on friendly soil.”
“Ah, excellent if true, Vihavald. That may well come in handy and save much time.”
Buðli once again took the floor.
“This had been a long meeting, Uncle, but there is one more issue our good scribe Sumarliði here has asked me to raise. It is to do with our realm's laws. This has been discussed most recently in connection with any possible move to increase tribal organisation, I understand to the possible end goal of instituting a feudal system of government.”
“Yes, I know it is a sensitive matter to my Councillors – including my wife the Queen and also my concubine, Spymaster Elin.” At this, Eilif raised an eyebrow at Ingrid, who affected to ignore it.
“At present, you would have my whole-hearted support as always, Uncle, to increase organisation to medium levels. But it is my understanding that no-one else on the Council would support such a move at this stage.”
“Very well – some work to do there. What of a move to allow the revocation of titles for religious reasons?”
“Not much better, I’m afraid. Chief Grimr, I understand you are undecided on this matter?” Silent until now, Grimr simply nodded his agreement. “And no-one else other than me currently supports the move?” Looking around the table, there were shaken heads and impassive faces.
“I see I would have much to do to persuade you to change your minds,” was Eilif's rhetorical response.
Ch79 Q7: Law Changes.Are these the type laws that you can only change once every ten years? That is, if I was to get medium tribal approved, it would be another ten years before I could go for high, ans so on? Or getting the revocation change up would prevent moving on organisation (or anything else) for ten years and vice versa?
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Questions
After the euphoria of the victory over Eirikr, the reality of the large realm to manage and difficult decisions to be made had set in. The next Great Þing would indeed be a busy one. But first, there would be celebration and feasting!
Ch79 Q1: Threat.To confirm I’m reading this right, if I was to attack Noregr straight away, the only effect would be to fight their King and anyone else he may have an alliance with (principally, probably exclusively, his own vassals). Though another victory (which would be limited to the claim on Naumadl) would no doubt raise the threat level further. I’m not sure by how much. Is there a tooltip that tells you before you declare war? Or if not, an idea of the ballpark % it would likely add?
Ch79 Q2: Revocation of Austerbotn.There you have it – in an epic own goal, I unthinkingly signed away one third of my newly acquired fleet by granting the county to Styrkar when I went ‘over the limit’ of titles. Sigh. This would limit the size of the force I’d be able to send raiding. But the revocation without a claim would antagonise my now very many vassals (we meet the main ones below). Any thoughts here?
Ch79 Q3: Runestone.It says ‘event chain’, so I’m thinking it may take a little while to pan out. Should I do this now, or wait until closer to the time? I have 258 gold in the coffers again, so ordering one now would leave me with 158: should be enough to fund another war (if Eilif does that instead of raiding), but after last time, I’m being careful. It could also pay for a mercenary band in extremis, so if I don’t need to do it now, I could hold off.
Ch79 Q4: Naumadl.Any important considerations here I haven’t seen? And what do you think: attack now, or wait for Olafr to finish his war, disband his own tribal army, taking him down in slower time while I raid, build piety and let the Swedish vassals rebuild their strength? And also see if the Christians try to hit me early, as they were attacking Eirikr?
Ch79 Q5: Succession – Eilif’s Vote.Any views as to whether I should ‘get with the strength’ and vote for Rikulfr? Or perhaps pitch in for Buðli to see if I can swing some favour in his direction? The latter certainly appeals for role-play and sentiment purposes. Clearly, there’s not a lot of point voting for Styrkar yet, until he reaches his majority.
Ch79 Q6: Swedish Succession.As discussed in response to previous comments and in the light of this, do I have the right of it here? Sweden would split under a separate king in an elective gavelkind succession? Anything else I should be bearing in mind there, or a legal or practical nature?
Ch79 Q7: Law Changes.Are these the type laws that you can only change once every ten years? That is, if I was to get medium tribal approved, it would be another ten years before I could go for high, ans so on? Or getting the revocation change up would prevent moving on organisation (or anything else) for ten years and vice versa?
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
“Let us feast!”
Before all the serious decisions needed to be made, there was a great celebration of the magnificent victory of Eilif the Just, King of Garðariki and Sviþjod. This later (stylised) painting of King Eilif raising a celebratory horn shows young Styrkar in the foreground.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
AuthAAR’s Note:As mentioned in comment responses earlier, this ‘end of season finale’ will be followed by a pause while I am away on tour overseas. I plan to recommence updates some time in early August. In the meantime, I will follow all comments with interest and will continue to engage on the forums. Just not playing and writing for a few weeks.
I would always pursue event chains lile that unless you really can't afford it.
Threat is a problem you must be careful of. Everyone will start dogpiling you if you go beyond a certain point. And if a Christian defence league is created, they tend to start asking the pope if they can crusade against you
A great victory for King Eilif, but with new lands will come new problems I would think, he should be wary of factions.
Q5: Sometimes nominating a new person as your heir will also cause the clumped up votes to spread out a bit as they have someone new to consider, you are right that you should wait until Strykar is of age since there is almost no chance of getting him as your heir as a child.
Q6: Yes, if you die now then Sweden will be Strykars, one way to possibly avoid this however is change Swedens sucession law to elective monarchy or any other non gavelkind sucession(though this will be difficult since there is a requirment of no swedish vassal to have a negative opinion) and then destroy the kingdom title, which will cost prestige and a significant negative opinion modifier to swedish vassals, but all the vassals will still be inherited by your primary heir and there shouldnt be a split or any factions to install claimnants for sweden. One way to make this easier could be to transfer the swedish count vassals to swedish dukes so there are less people to improve relations with.
Well, I've finally read all the thread, very nice, well written and instructive. a suggested reading for any ck2 newbie, specially, but not limited to , for those playing pagans. Bravo.
Q1. yes, if you attack now there should not be defensive pact. OTOH Noregr is a big country, there is a chance it would not enter a DP against you in any case (Dpacts are for many small nations to join against a larger one, if one is too large it can't join (or at least, that is my understanding)
Q3 I'm confused. Maybe I'm missing something, but from the wiki it seems that Runestones give prestige and you need piety for the reformation. it can still be useful but it don't help with the reform.
You are very close to your vassal limit. Maybe you should consider some reorganization, transfer some chief (the one that don't like you) to some Jarl. that would take the chiefs out of your hairs and raise the jarl opinion of you at least of 10 for 10 years, more if she want to control that province
Q1: if you attack noregr immediately, as in before unpausing, you will just get them and their allies. But, with your current threat level, they can and probably would join a defensive pact against you. What the tooltip is telling you is that the Norse pact against you would not join forces with other religions pacts until your threat goes higher. You still could end up facing several Norse realms though.
Q2: I lean towards no, but there are good arguments either way. One thing to keep in mind is that if you’re raiding a relatively nearby target, you can just have your troops walk there and the ships sail around separately. I bet your new holdings in Brabant have some decent targets inside walking distance.
Q3: the runestone does take a little time; more importantly it gives prestige rather than piety. Nice but hardly worth giving up your safety blanket for.
Q4: I’d attack now out of concern for pacts forming, as well as to keep the tribal army. Your ships should help the levies get back faster, even if it takes a couple trips to pick them all up. This is really the last territory you need for the foreseeable future, get it quick then raid for a few years while the threat goes down.
Q5: your vote can swing things dramatically, since it gives a modifier depending on how
Much the voter likes you (there is a tooltip to see this in the new patch). It’s pretty hard to get minors elected, I generally pick my favorite adult.
Q6: yep, it’ll split. I don’t think there’s much you can do since i think you can’t change away from gavelkind as unreformed pagan and can’t destroy a gavelkind title. The only solution is being an emperor or reforming. You will get a strong claim on it and can generally retake it unless your new ruler is pretty hated.
Q7: there is definitely a cooldown, I think 10 years is right. I believe there are two “lanes,” one for “crown laws” e.g. tribal authority and one for “regular laws” e.g. revocation or centralization. So you should be able to pass one of each every 10 years (resets on sUccession). But I’m not 100% sure the rules were the same on the patch you’re using.
Some say the only thing worse than not getting what you want, is getting what you want.
I do wonder if Eilif doesn't feel a little like that in the aftermath of this grand victory. Once the hangover clears and in the cold light of the northern day he realises just how much extra hassle all these new lands are. No wonder people have gavelkind back then - it was a merciful system of inheritance to reduce the mental strain!
Well, I've finally read all the thread, very nice, well written and instructive. a suggested reading for any ck2 newbie, specially, but not limited to , for those playing pagans. Bravo.
Q3 I'm confused. Maybe I'm missing something, but from the wiki it seems that Runestones give prestige and you need piety for the reformation. it can still be useful but it don't help with the reform.
A quick ‘pre-Thing’ reply, first to say a very warm welcome and thanks for the effort to read through - very glad you’ve enjoyed it!
Second: ugh (palms own face) even though I copied and pasted from the wiki, I think I must have read what had been suggested in a different wiki entry about Runestones. Scrub that idea then, unless there’s some other effect I’m missing. Part of the problem is (and I’ll now re-check) the tooltip in game doesn’t seem to say what the effect will be of raising one. But very glad I’ve checked with the hive mind!
Ah, I didn't think of the possibility of piety events. I just looked at the monthly modifier and didn't think it looked that useful. Inexperience showing through (not ever having played a theology focus yet). I shoulda known!
I'm not really sure about this anyway, no need to feel inexperienced. There are so many mechanics in this game, every one of us are inexperienced about one thing or the other
This will be tackled subsequently, but assuming Eilif wins this war, he gains the Kingdom of Sweden. Which, unless something is done to change things, would be split away again to a different heir under elective gavelkind? This is a variation on a discussion we've had previously on getting too many counties from a de jure kingdom and having it auto-generate and split on succession.
Sweden splitting would mean I lose the three holy sites again, though at least the faith would have been reformed by then (I'm hoping). Food for later thought and consideration ... some more water needs to go under the bridge first, though if there are preparatory steps I need to start taking soon, any suggestions welcomed.
Well maybe after the scandinavian wars and some raiding, eilif can go on a russian (or scandinavian, whichever would be easier at that point) empire rampage to declare an empire before a succession
But it was not to be. By early June, it was clear the White Bear – if it had ever been in Chud at all – had eluded them. Along the way, Eilif had been presented with a fleshly temptation one evening. Perhaps mindful of his earlier lapse with Dyre’s wife and also of his ambition to reform the faith and become its leader, he eschewed the offer. He would now pursue a virtuous life (though not a fully abstinent one), concentrating more on intellectual pursuits and becoming more pious in the ways of the Old Gods. The hunt ended a week later – but Eilif remained keen to find the White Bear one day – which inspired him to even greater strength of martial purpose.
Hey, I was telling about event chains in other life focus that could've brought piety, and on your first event chain of hunting focus you came across one. Sometimes things that are bound to happen just happen, you made the correct choice
Eilif waited, but there was no subsequent intake of breath. At only 52 years of age, the last tangible link to the first days of Rurik’s reign had left this world. She was mourned; a great pyre was built to send her spirit to the Gods.
Ch79 Q1: Threat.To confirm I’m reading this right, if I was to attack Noregr straight away, the only effect would be to fight their King and anyone else he may have an alliance with (principally, probably exclusively, his own vassals). Though another victory (which would be limited to the claim on Naumadl) would no doubt raise the threat level further. I’m not sure by how much. Is there a tooltip that tells you before you declare war? Or if not, an idea of the ballpark % it would likely add?
As far as I know there should be already a formed pact in order for them to fight back with you. From what I remember from the past chapters, there aren't any formed yet but they migh form in the upcoming days. So if there isn't already some pacts against you, you can attack anyone now freely. Noregr you can attack anyway since they are our religion.
The increase in threat from Naumadal would rise it no more than 4-5% I think, but I'm just telling from the top of my head. I don't know if there is a tooltip that tells you :/
Ch79 Q2: Revocation of Austerbotn.There you have it – in an epic own goal, I unthinkingly signed away one third of my newly acquired fleet by granting the county to Styrkar when I went ‘over the limit’ of titles. Sigh. This would limit the size of the force I’d be able to send raiding. But the revocation without a claim would antagonise my now very many vassals (we meet the main ones below). Any thoughts here?
There would be other commenters with more experience than me but I'd just swallow the fact that a third of the fleet is now unavailable for raiding, I'd think about the revocation if we were in a more stable situation and not just after subjugating a huge kingdom. On second thought, maybe it's better to treat it like a band-aid and get it done quickly once and for all. On third thought, it might be too risky
Ch79 Q3: Runestone.It says ‘event chain’, so I’m thinking it may take a little while to pan out. Should I do this now, or wait until closer to the time? I have 258 gold in the coffers again, so ordering one now would leave me with 158: should be enough to fund another war (if Eilif does that instead of raiding), but after last time, I’m being careful. It could also pay for a mercenary band in extremis, so if I don’t need to do it now, I could hold off.
We're not in a hurry for piety, let's first finish the wars and erect the runestone when we start raiding. Having said that, keep in mind I have never played that event chain and just talking from my general sense. EDIT: I saw in other comments it gives prestige instead of piety anyway.
Ch79 Q4: Naumadl.Any important considerations here I haven’t seen? And what do you think: attack now, or wait for Olafr to finish his war, disband his own tribal army, taking him down in slower time while I raid, build piety and let the Swedish vassals rebuild their strength? And also see if the Christians try to hit me early, as they were attacking Eirikr?
I'd just attack now, try to get in and out quickly and hope we're quick enough before anything bad happens elsewhere. It's one province so less warscore would be enough and if we take there quickly it would tick into the warscore as time passes anyway.
Ch79 Q5: Succession – Eilif’s Vote.Any views as to whether I should ‘get with the strength’ and vote for Rikulfr? Or perhaps pitch in for Buðli to see if I can swing some favour in his direction? The latter certainly appeals for role-play and sentiment purposes. Clearly, there’s not a lot of point voting for Styrkar yet, until he reaches his majority.
Ch79 Q6: Swedish Succession.As discussed in response to previous comments and in the light of this, do I have the right of it here? Sweden would split under a separate king in an elective gavelkind succession? Anything else I should be bearing in mind there, or a legal or practical nature?
Yes I think it's a certainty the kingdoms would split. I think after we finish the Noregr war and subsequent raiding and absorbing, we'd better get to mopping up provinces from the Empire of Rus to keep the realm together in the event of a succession. If we manage to go feudal, that would solve a lot of succession problems as well.
Ch79 Q7: Law Changes.Are these the type laws that you can only change once every ten years? That is, if I was to get medium tribal approved, it would be another ten years before I could go for high, ans so on? Or getting the revocation change up would prevent moving on organisation (or anything else) for ten years and vice versa?
You are very close to your vassal limit. Maybe you should consider some reorganization, transfer some chief (the one that don't like you) to some Jarl. that would take the chiefs out of your hairs and raise the jarl opinion of you at least of 10 for 10 years, more if she want to control that province
And so Garðariki comes out victorious. May Eilif see the dawn of the Fylkirate, or his efforts will need to be replicated by his successor.
The realm may be united behing him for now, but for how long? It is good to see the council unopposed to his war plans for once. Though they could also support at least a law that doesn't act against them.
Dealing with Buðli must be surprisingly pleasant after the experience with Dyre. Even though the latter showed his true side, recognizing Eilif's son. Doesn't he know that the idea of a virgin birth is a filthy Christian one or how does he explain that he managed to get a woman in Garðariki pregnant from the safety of his exile?
Speaking of which, I do wonder how Hakon's doing. Things should be looking good for him.
Ch79 Q1: Threat.To confirm I’m reading this right, if I was to attack Noregr straight away, the only effect would be to fight their King and anyone else he may have an alliance with (principally, probably exclusively, his own vassals). Though another victory (which would be limited to the claim on Naumadl) would no doubt raise the threat level further. I’m not sure by how much. Is there a tooltip that tells you before you declare war? Or if not, an idea of the ballpark % it would likely add?
Yes. Threat depends on both your realm size, the CB used and the conquered land. For conquest wars the gain is fairly small, I would guess it's a few percent for present Garðariki. There's no tooltip for the threat to expect, however. The only threat gains I can somewhat calculate with is that when you've got a big empire, any war gives you too much threat.
Ch79 Q2: Revocation of Austerbotn.There you have it – in an epic own goal, I unthinkingly signed away one third of my newly acquired fleet by granting the county to Styrkar when I went ‘over the limit’ of titles. Sigh. This would limit the size of the force I’d be able to send raiding. But the revocation without a claim would antagonise my now very many vassals (we meet the main ones below). Any thoughts here?
Revoking just to have access to boats may not be a good idea. You've got Brabant now, after all, and Lotharingia doesn't look like it can defend itself. Plenty enough of loot to seize there.
For further in the future, once you've reformed, further increased tribal organization and adopted feudalism you won't need your own boats anyway (as long as your army isn't too big). It's cheaper to use your vassals', too.
Ch79 Q3: Runestone.It says ‘event chain’, so I’m thinking it may take a little while to pan out. Should I do this now, or wait until closer to the time? I have 258 gold in the coffers again, so ordering one now would leave me with 158: should be enough to fund another war (if Eilif does that instead of raiding), but after last time, I’m being careful. It could also pay for a mercenary band in extremis, so if I don’t need to do it now, I could hold off.
It doesn't take long. It's an event chain because you decide how you dedicate it, and then get your stone raised. You can hold off for now, though the runestone's opinion boost always comes in handy.
Ch79 Q4: Naumadl.Any important considerations here I haven’t seen? And what do you think: attack now, or wait for Olafr to finish his war, disband his own tribal army, taking him down in slower time while I raid, build piety and let the Swedish vassals rebuild their strength? And also see if the Christians try to hit me early, as they were attacking Eirikr?
Olafr winning the war could bring him back into tribal-army-raising prestige, so that's to keep in mind too. By quickly moving for Naumadal, you should be able to secure good ticking warscore before he's even left Luxembourg though, and then it may be a matter of only one or two battles. If you are lucky, it weakens him just enough not for more holy wars to target him.
Then again, you could also join Olafr in defense of his holy war. That's another chance to earn some piety in battle.
Ch79 Q5: Succession – Eilif’s Vote.Any views as to whether I should ‘get with the strength’ and vote for Rikulfr? Or perhaps pitch in for Buðli to see if I can swing some favour in his direction? The latter certainly appeals for role-play and sentiment purposes. Clearly, there’s not a lot of point voting for Styrkar yet, until he reaches his majority.
Well, voting for Buðli would give him an opinion boost, but at least for now he's a good loyal brother. Still, if you wish to switch your vote from Styrkar, then it's best to do so for your favoured adult heir. Just going with the majority won't give Eilif any friends amongst his vassals, just make Rikulfr like him more. Buðli would deserve the support until Styrkar's majority. He's a good guy.
Ch79 Q6: Swedish Succession.As discussed in response to previous comments and in the light of this, do I have the right of it here? Sweden would split under a separate king in an elective gavelkind succession? Anything else I should be bearing in mind there, or a legal or practical nature?
If I get it right, your non-main title (created or creatable, which isn't relevant in Sviþjoð's case anyway) goes to your non-inheriting sons. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that may mean that if Styrkar inherits Garðariki without a brother, then he may inherit both kingdoms.
If vassals are less likely to vote for a son of the previous ruler which I think they are, then this also explains why.
Ch79 Q7: Law Changes.Are these the type laws that you can only change once every ten years? That is, if I was to get medium tribal approved, it would be another ten years before I could go for high, ans so on? Or getting the revocation change up would prevent moving on organisation (or anything else) for ten years and vice versa?
That's right. If you get the law approved (or rejected, for that matter), then it's either infidel revocation or tribal organization (or obligation laws) for ten years until the next vote.
