CK3: Tours and Tournaments - The Vision

[grommile]

As opposed to the good Court system we got? Or the good struggle system that is still locked to a minor region despite being a part of the base game and not the DLC?

If you don't like those, why do you imagine the rushed "force the schedule" CK3 versions of the things you miss from CK2 will be any good?

 

[Greenfish]

Aaand you get the crap version they can cram into three months, and never get the good version.

RC released last February. It’s been more than a year since it’s released and they just announced DLC #2. It’s a bunch of base events but done better and we get to pay $30 for it. Is this not a crap version?

 

[davidmrc]

If you don't like those, why do you imagine the rushed "force the schedule" CK3 versions of the things you miss from CK2 will be any good?

Because with something to build from we might get the good while removing the bad, like the base game version of Sword of Islam, that removed the godawful decadence. It's not like the bar for the original content they delivered so far is very high.

Edit: I never said i wanted them to rush anything, because if this is them rushing development, god help us all when things slow down.

 

[krissuyx]

Are we never getting counsel mechanics? Or Byzantium/imperial content? This is so disappointing.

Imperial content is listed in the floorplan.

 

[FleetingRain]

A reminder for people saying this new mechanic may be a cornerstone for future development of Crusades and other currently subpar/non-existant mechanics:

This is a DLC. Future patches/DLCs won't use this mechanic. Unless, of course, the only DLC-locked feature are the tours and tournaments themselves, while the traveling mechanic comes with the free patch. But I'm not holding my breath, specially considering every other "foundational mechanic with potential" has been left unused until now.

 

[grommile]

But I'm not holding my breath, specially considering every other "foundational mechanic with potential" has been left unused until now.

If they do a couple more regional Flavour Packs and don't touch the Struggle mechanic introduced in 1.6, come back and say I told you so.

 

[TravlingCanuck]

I'm extremely pleased by this announcement and the direction that CK3 is going this year. T&T followed by W&W should greatly enhance the core gameplay of managing your family dynasty. With T&T it looks like we're getting more interesting marriage decisions to replace the one-size-fits-all alliances. Then with W&W we get additional gameplay around raising children in your court. Together, these should strengthen the foundation of what CK3 is about.

I was very down on Royal Court, which seemed a time- and resource-sink associated with the 3D art, but felt the game got back on the right foot with Fate of Iberia. Combine the family management mechanics noted above with T&T's other new additions to peacetime gameplay and I think the game is going to become a more enjoyable experience as we move through 2023.

The only thing I dislike about T&T so far is the option for Bloody Weddings. I can see that becoming problematic and immersion breaking. How the AI handles dowry negotiations is another concern.

 

[Wayofwisdom]

I am looking forward to grand weddings, especially if we can host them for our children as well. I wonder if it will affect betrothals?

 

[Treekin]

I think the direction the game is going in is great. This will go a long way to give the later eras of the game some gas.

Now if only we can get the Fate of Iberia "struggle system" implimented on a grand scale, we'd really be cooking. Speaking of which, is there any word of that being a goal?

I really like the idea of the multi year pilgrimages

Same. Pilgrimages should be a significant investment in time as a show of devotion, not just a little romp that takes a few months at max to travel thousands of miles in medieval times.

Welp guess we have to wait (at least) another year for functional crusades, meaningful religions, and distinct governments.

Crusades are already functional. I'm not sure what more you want. The enemy AI has been updated, ally AI has been updated, and the overall balance of crusading factions have been tweaked. If you have complaints, it would be infinitely more helpful to list the problems instead of complaining about percieved problems without any specific direction. What do you think needs to be fixed?

As for "meaningful religions" -- sure, there is always more room for expansion. But there are meaningful religions already. Do I want a more in-depth religion system? Yes, but what we have at the moment is good. Not great, but good. Hopefully there will be more depth added in the future, but it's not a priority - nor should it be.

As for regional governments, I just don't see that being an issue. That's like low priority icing on the cake.

 

[naq29]

Let's face it: the reason people like these cosmetic DLCs and their window-dressing features is that they want to play the base game, but getting bored so they need some busywork to keep them busy.

Let's take Royal Court as an example: you don't even need to hold court, because you receive no penalty for not doing your job as a court-holder. In fact you have to lose prestige to hold court. And holding court is the only interaction you can have with people in your lifeless, frozen court. No greeting, chat-chit, flirting, bargaining, scheming... with anybody. Instead all you can do is push one button and some random events (often unrealistic and unfunny) pop up, giving you some penalty (often outside your control). That's it. The only reason you enter such a time-wasting, useless mini-game is because you are tired of staring at the map for too long.

If you just want to experience those activities without the base game, there is certainly better simulators out there. Mount & Blade is an example: you actually fight in tournaments, you actually have to travel across your domain to manage it, you actually have to summon vassals to your army instead of having them teleported at the rally point.

 

[Jayvee94]

Hey remember the last DD where they show the Economy Map? If we can draw routes in this DLC (or the accompanying free update), wouldn't that pave way for trade routes?


Not necessarily this DLC but the subsequent ones. Hell! Even the modders can capitalize on that.

 

[foreman_domai]

Let's face it: the reason people like these cosmetic DLCs and their window-dressing features is that they want to play the base game, but getting bored so they need some busywork to keep them busy.

Let's take Royal Court as an example: you don't even need to hold court, because you receive no penalty for not doing your job as a court-holder. In fact you have to lost prestige to hold court. And holding court is the only interaction you can have with people in your lifeless, frozen court. No greeting, chat-chit, flirting, bargaining, scheming... with anybody. Instead all you can do is push one button and some random events (often unrealistic and unfunny) pop up, giving you some penalty (often outside your control). That's it. The only reason you enter such a time-wasting, useless mini-game is because you are tired of staring at the map for too long.

If you just want to experience those activities without the base game, there is certainly better simulators out there. Mount & Blade is an example: you actually fight in tournaments, you actually have to travel across your domain to manage it, you actually have to summon vassals to your army instead of having them teleported at the rally point.

If ya wanna call new things to do in a video game busywork and a waste of time...I've got some bad news about our shared hobby, friend.

You've made some fine points about what the Court could've been, but travelin' round that map sounds fuuuun! I'm an optimist and I'm on the hype train.

 

[TripleAgent]

Crusades are already functional. I'm not sure what more you want. The enemy AI has been updated, ally AI has been updated, and the overall balance of crusading factions have been tweaked. If you have complaints, it would be infinitely more helpful to list the problems instead of complaining about percieved problems without any specific direction. What do you think needs to be fixed?

Even the updated AI is still bad, make completely boneheaded strategic decisions every time, still doesn't know how to deal with attrition, still can't be bothered to coordinate, gets wiped by the defenders every time absent a miracle, and barely has any flavor to set it apart from any other generic war.

As for "meaningful religions" -- sure, there is always more room for expansion. But there are meaningful religions already. Do I want a more in-depth religion system? Yes, but what we have at the moment is good. Not great, but good. Hopefully there will be more depth added in the future, but it's not a priority - nor should it be.

A game taking place in the medieval age has a papal mechanic that literally only exists to pay out a lump sum of gold every x number of months for piety and occasionally persuade them to excommunicate someone... which just serves to makes them slightly less liked among christendom. No college of cardinals. No papal intrigue or interference or coronations. Nothing. It's not good, it's marginally less bland than every other religion but still a complete afterthought.

As for regional governments, I just don't see that being an issue. That's like low priority icing on the cake.

I can only play as a generic feudal government indistinguishable from all of the other generic feudal governments that surround me for so long before it starts to get boring.

 

[krissuyx]

Let's face it: the reason people like these cosmetic DLCs and their window-dressing features is that they want to play the base game, but getting bored so they need some busywork to keep them busy.

Let's take Royal Court as an example: you don't even need to hold court, because you receive no penalty for not doing your job as a court-holder. In fact you have to lost prestige to hold court. And holding court is the only interaction you can have with people in your lifeless, frozen court. No greeting, chat-chit, flirting, bargaining, scheming... with anybody. Instead all you can do is push one button and some random events (often unrealistic and unfunny) pop up, giving you some penalty (often outside your control). That's it. The only reason you enter such a time-wasting, useless mini-game is because you are tired of staring at the map for too long.

If you just want to experience those activities without the base game, there is certainly better simulators out there. Mount & Blade is an example: you actually fight in tournaments, you actually have to travel across your domain to manage it, you actually have to summon vassals to your army instead of having them teleported at the rally point.

Mount and Blade is a fun medieval battle simulator but I'm not looking for battle simulation from CK. I'm in it for the medieval roleplay.
I'll agree that some of the highly scripted events, that don't offer the player much of a choice, aren't the best thing ever. Roleplay is 50% imagination though, so I don't need to have the mechanics or the text spelling everything out for me at all times. Royal Court and now this DLC just supplement my imagination, which, as a roleplayer, is good enough for me. (I'm obviously still hopeful for bigger mechanical changes in the future)

 

[Drake_Hound]

Finally a VISION ... Crusader Sims here we come , took a while before admitting it .

But now we finally have a vision for this game..

Would have been happier if Merchant Republics (forget it just call it Republics) , Nomads and Societies was released first .
So we have more starting options and combination..

And finish off what CK2 wanted to do with playable Mercenary / Holy Order factions and playable Theocracy .
So no more need to hide behind Dynasties History and everything , we are making Crusader Sims .

Side note please make this tournement and travel stuff , PLAYERS ONLY or affecting Players only ... before you bork up everything again with a whole world running Tournements and Traveling around forever , so this opens up possibility with Baronies and Courtiers players only to not lag resources.

 

[Furion Matsuya]

Please folks. Don't buy it.

No dice, I'm buying it. Get over it.

 

[Idle America]

View attachment 953974

Was this button always in the game, or it has been too long since I played the game?
If it's new, what could it be?

Obviously, it's the "Hunt/Feast" scale, so we see how many hunts we need to do to stop being so freaking FAT.

 

[naq29]

If ya wanna call new things to do in a video game busywork and a waste of time...I've got some bad news about our shared hobby, friend.

You've made some fine points about what the Court could've been, but travelin' round that map sounds fuuuun! I'm an optimist and I'm on the hype train.

I am just saying those new things are wastes of time if stand alone from the base game. I didn't buy a medieval grand strategy game just to push a button and read some uninteresting, repeating texts.

And I think the paradox devs did a decent job of making a solid base game. Just some DLC contents like the royal court being totally busywork, and I suspect the tournaments would be similar. I would not say the same for tournaments in mount and blade, for example, since they can be very enjoyable. And I am just surprised that some people praise these DLCs as if they fulfill their childhood dream or something, when games like mount and blade already did that much better a long time ago.

And I do not even hate busywork, as long as it doesn't become boring itself. I think the problem is instead of adding more interactions and decisions for roleplaying, the devs keep adding scripted events. Let's take travelling as an example: will we be able to visit a foreign court and seduce the ruler's wife or recruiting people into our plots? Can we visit towns and go to brothels to make some extra bastards, or prepare for an assassination ambush? Or it will be just random events again? We'll see.

 

[Drake_Hound]

Nah. They’ll happily ignore it by dishing the community another lacklustre DD that no one cares for. THAT is Pdox today, a bunch out of touch devs fuelled by greed (and long vacations) at the expense of said community.

The community should have instead of always Praising and Liking everything Paradox, offer real criticisme , for example say WE WANT EVERYTHING from CK2 done first ,
Nope instead people just hit like no matter what they do ... leading to this stale game after 2 YEARS ... that is 2 YEARS of development gone , that should have brought CK3 closer to replacing CK2 for good. instead of people looking at CK2 oh those have tons of mechanics .. CK3 is just a stale simple map painter , with fancy 3D graphics (those are really fancy at 200% renders , it even overheats my graphic card) .. that are hardly used.
While CK3 core mechanics has improved a lot .

Yes agree they are fuelled by greed, like any company , but make them work for the GREED with a VISION atleast.
Instead of saying the obvious criticism all the time , at least they are finally admitting their Vision , it is Crusader Sims .
Why is that Vision important , cause no more need to argue hypocritical endlessly about stuff, time to get moving and finish the game. instead of event pack 1 , event pack 2 , event pack 3 ... once in the blue moon some mechanics fixing . in comes the NEW about time too.

 

[foreman_domai]

If we're real lucky we can have someone in our entourage clapping a couple of cocernuts together as we hunt the Grail!

More seriously though, I do hope it's a mostly non-optional feature, and at least making the rounds to intimidate the underlings now and then becomes part of the core gameplay. I think though, like the intrique system and to a lesser extent the court, you will sort of get out of it the more attention you pay to that system. Perhaps there will be changes to the talent trees that makes going out Touring more effective.