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Dev Diary #131 – CKIII University 101

Opening Remarks​

Good afternoon, and welcome to your first class of the semester! My name is Dr. Areysak, and I’ll be your “CKIII University 101” lecturer.

I already see some raised hands. You, in the first row, ask away.

“Why a University Activity? What does it have to do with Wards and Wardens?”

This is a very interesting question. During the early development of Wards and Wardens, talks of hostages’ education led us to a realization: everything that could influence a character’s education trait happens during childhood. Once a character reaches 16 years of age, they are locked out of any further improvement! And if the player character isn’t directly responsible for the education of their heir, a player can find themselves inheriting an already adult heir character with an education trait they have had no way to influence.

The University Visit activity is the solution we have chosen to open up new possibilities to the player to influence their character’s personal growth. Therefore, as a first aim, it fulfills a gameplay need; secondly, it allows us to expand upon one of the Middle Ages’ many successful inventions, Universities; thirdly, we got to add a new activity!

When we talk of Medieval Universities, we are immediately led to think of the famous names of Western Europe, such as Oxford, Cambridge, and Bologna. The name “University”, in fact, comes from Latin and was born to describe specifically the communities (= universitates) of Latin-speaking teachers and students that congregated in these European cities. However, similar institutions existed all over the Old World. Particularly famous are the Indian “universities”, such as Takshashila and Nalanda; the House of Wisdom in Baghdad was one of the most renowned centers of studies of its age, and Madrasas schools were widespread throughout the Islamic world. In this period, it’s also often difficult to separate, as we would do today, between lay and religious centers of studies, since Christian cathedrals, Muslim mosques and, in particular, Buddhist temples were themselves libraries, scriptoria (i.e., where manuscripts were copied), and educational institutions, or had these institutions develop in their immediate vicinity.

The Activity​

Let’s now have a look at the activity itself, though!

The University Visit is a minor activity that adult landed rulers can always initiate, as long as they have the gold! To keep it in line with the pre-existing decision to Go to University, it is quite expensive. To keep the challenge balanced, the final cost is dynamic (like with all activities) and changes with your tier and era.

image8.jpg

(Activity selection interface showing the University Visit)

The activity takes 6 months, and can only be started once every 20 years, and only once per location.

In order to Visit a University, you have to select a valid location in your diplomatic range and travel there.

image9.jpg

(Activity destination selection interface)

You might have noticed, however, that not all valid locations are University seats. As discussed above, large religious centers were often centers of study too, and have been included as potential destinations.

image11.jpg

(The tooltip of a large religious center)

Being a minor activity, the choice of intents and options is limited but flavorful.
There are only two intents available, but they represent two contrasting approaches to your university experience, and will significantly change both your approach to your studies and the results you can achieve. In fact, every activity event will have at least one special option unlocked by each intent!
“Study Hard” is quite self-explanatory: you went there to study, and study hard you will, no matter the stress cost you’ll have to pay! You try to make the most of your time at University, in order to maximize your chances of success at the end of the activity and increase your rewards.
In fact, the results (and rewards) you obtain at the end of your studies are measured by a value called “Studiousness”, which is a “success” chance similar, e.g., to a Pilgrimage’s Piousness. The activity can’t fail per se, but the entity of your rewards will depend on this value.

“Goliardic Lifestyle” is a completely different approach, inspired by the European Goliards, wandering students and clerics famous for their satirical poetry (for instance the Carmina Burana) exalting the art of drinking and carnal pleasures. With this intent, your aim is to gain as much first-hand experience of life, both inside and outside the walls of the University, indulging in so-called “Goliardic Shenanigans”. I’ll leave you the pleasure of discovering exactly what your character can get up to; the general idea of the intent, however, is to gain less success chance (and therefore less rewards at the conclusion of the activity), but more immediate bonuses such as lifestyle traits, lifestyle xp, and skill points.

image2.jpg

(Intents view)

On the other hand, we only have one option with 3 levels, which represent how much money you plan to invest in study materials. The option chosen will influence your success chance and final rewards, including an Illustrious artifact! (cost values are still wip)

image13.jpg

(Options view)

image4.jpg

(Arrival event)

As you can see, your level of Studiousness is easily traceable from the activity view. To make the interactions more impactful, we have limited the number of guests, which are only a handful of students and teachers, which will be among the wisest minds on the map!

image6.jpg

(Activity view and teacher’s character view)

image7.jpg

(Event with Study Hard option)

image12.jpg

(Event with Goliardic Lifestyle options)

Be ready to gain a whole bunch of stress! Nobody said that getting a degree was easy…

I did mention that your teachers will be among the most brilliant minds around, and I’d like to stress it again because if you manage to make a very good impression on them…

image3.jpg

(Conclusion event)

You will be able to invite one of them to move back to your court with you!

But hold on, there is something weird with this teacher… What is that?!

image10.jpg

(Teacher’s character view with education trait tooltip)

Is that… A fifth level of the Education Trait?!

YES!

Concurrently with the University Visit activity, we have added a new level to all education traits. This final level will be super rare, and mostly reserved for University teachers and University graduates who already started with the fourth-tier trait.

Rewards​

As you might have guessed from what has been discussed so far, the main reward for the activity is increasing your education trait one level up. However, there is only a chance to succeed in this endeavor! This chance is higher the lower you current level is (i.e., it’s easier to get from tier 1 to 2 than it is from 2 to 3) and the higher your Studiousness level is.

image1.jpg

(Tooltip of Tier 4 of Studiousness with the rewards)

However, even if you were to fail at improving your education, you are ensured to gain a number of Perk points that increases with your achieved Studiousness, an assortment of xp and skill points depending on your event choices, and even an Illustrious book if you chose the most expensive option during the activity setup (and therefore went splurging on rare manuscripts)!

image5.jpg

(A randomly generated Illustrious book)

Conclusions​

This concludes today’s lecture. I hear some buzzing from the end rows, are there any questions?

“But that’s not how Universities worked! No ruler would go to University like a commoner!!”

You are, of course, correct. We are perfectly aware of it. However, we believe that the combined bonuses offered by new gameplay possibilities (i.e., improving your character’s education and skills) and the historical flavor of showing a slice of the life at Medieval Universities more than warranted the exception!

I hope you are excited to Visit a University soon!

This is the last Dev Diary before the July break, so it seems fitting to just say:

School’s out! Have a nice summer! And see you all back in August!
 
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“But that’s not how Universities worked! No ruler would go to University like a commoner!!”

You are, of course, correct. We are perfectly aware of it. However, we believe that the combined bonuses offered by new gameplay possibilities (i.e., improving your character’s education and skills) and the historical flavor of showing a slice of the life at Medieval Universities more than warranted the exception!
I personally don't mind a bit of forcing the historical reality for the sake of alt-history (after all, the fact that no ruler would go or did go does not mean it was not possible!), but I can easily imagine how history buffs might take that.

So, have you considered putting the university events behind a game rule (the kind of all / only player / only AI / none rule), so that if someone wants to play with full historical immersion can disable it?
 
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Tier 5 education traits are such a surprise! How cool. I love seeing things that feel "core" to the basic understanding of CK get iterated on and expanded

Though, the twenty year cool down feels like it makes it hard to set getting a tier 5 as a personal goal. Since you pretty much will only ever get one shot at university, you can only ever get tier 5 if you come out of childhood with tier 4.
 
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This appears to be a good activity. I would have preferred a university experience that didn't involve fully adult rulers enrolling as students. Wards and Wardens, a DLC focused on young characters, would have been an obvious opportunity to implement the medieval reality of students arriving in their mid teens to study for a potential church career. I had the privilege of attending an ancient university, so I would really like to see that path open up. But I do realize that there are limits to what can be done in an event pack.

But there are going to be riots, right?

Are you thinking of adding an option to send a family member to university of they are eligible? Sort of like the "Send to Varangian Guard" option for Norse rulers?
I would really, really like to see this. Going to university should be practically mandatory for a good career in the church hierarchy or the ulema.

And there are so many opportunities for player involvement in this. Letters from your relative reporting that they're studying hard... or that they need money to cover their gambling debts... Letters from their rector suggesting that they should stay on for a doctoral degree, or in danger of failing (but that endowing a scholarship might make their teachers more sympathetic), or inviting you to endow a professorship for a suitably eye-watering sum... Returning home with a friend they've made (perhaps someone who shares their scholarly interest, or perhaps someone who shares their bed). The player visiting their protege to see how they're doing (now that's actually a more realistic justification for a Visiting University activity...).

Honestly having a ruler-teacher is a terrible idea to me, no matter how you spin it. Both are jobs that require an enormous amount of work and having a ruler quit their responsibilities to teach a class is unrealistic. At best they would teach heirs and other children they have a particular interest in, which is an entirely different scale and is already done by taking the child as your ward.
I agree with your basic point. But if the game is ever expanded to the Sinosphere (which I am opposed to but we know is planned), then it might want to engage with the Confucian tradition of the ruler-teacher, or in the usual jargon 'scholar-official': not teaching classes in a university, but engaging in scholarly activity such as writing erudite books as part of the ruler's work.
That makes sense, I don’t think it should be something for the players to fully control. How far from the university would be "around" it, though? Will particularly able landed characters tend to hang around universities and cathedrals that might need them as professors?
I think Areysak is saying that player relatives have the same chance as any other NPC to become a university teacher (low). That's disappointing, as it's something that medieval rulers would have been able to influence pretty easily. It should be well within the scope of Wards & Wardens to add a version of Ask to take vows that sends someone to a university province/large religious centre province, even if the devs can't guarantee that they stay there.
 
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I am sure this was unintended, but what an interesting use of the comma here ;)
Hahahahah well, first of all, my English is terrible (I'm a Spanish speaker) and...I'm a historian. I "take a break" all the time with my students and when I write a paper. Call it dramatic effect! Hhahahaha
 
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“But that’s not how Universities worked! No ruler would go to University like a commoner!!”

If you lost Prestige and/or Piety for the activity that would be helpful in mitigating this concern. If you lost enough, you could even lower the gold cost so that it isn't so out of scale with other costs in the game.

Would have preferred the Go to University activity be the culmination of private tutoring scheme or some such. That would have been flavorful, in character with notions of medieval propriety, and still used the travel and activity mechanic. You probably couldn't have resisted calling it Graduation and having the player attend a kegger and toga party though.
 
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Well, there's nothing preventing it! But it would need to be a good coincidence... If they are unlanded, hanging around a University/Cathedral province, and meet the education/skill requirements, I suppose they could be picked up, sure!

Would it be hard/outside of concept scope to make a clear bias / interaction to send off monks to be teachers? And possibly have 'teachers' provide a minor amount of renown?

One of the issues/dynamics of 'take vows' type characters right now is that it's primarily a succession-management tool, but one with limited utility if you have / use other means of succession management. You can't marry them for alliances, they won't inherit, and you generally don't want them in your court as court members because there's a non-trivial chance that you monk'd them because they weren't good for anything and were just in the way of better heirs. At the same time, you don't want them hanging out too close to home, lest someone else faction them.

A 'send to center of learning' interaction would provide a more direct use-case, especially if it came with an extremely small amount of renown. Even just 0.05 renown- less than half a baron- it'd present a sense of 'value' for the character, a reward for engaging in the monk mechanic, and would expand the strategic use-case.
 
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Man, this looks so cool.
Questions though:
-Are Tier 5 educations available in the Ruler Designer (and if so, at what prohibitively high cost)?
-What happens if you have a Tier 5 education and you go for another visit to the university and get max studiousness?
-How will Tier 5 educations affect guardianship and court positions (I'm looking at you Court Tutor), beyond the increase in stats the trait gives?
-As a follow-up to the previous question, if it does affect court positions, which ones are affected?
-I know others have asked this a lot, but will there be interactions to send family members to improve their education (or alternatively, bringing them with you when you do)?
That's it for now, thanks for your time Dr. Areysak
 
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If you lost Prestige and/or Piety for the activity that would be helpful in mitigating this concern. If you lost enough, you could even lower the gold cost so that it isn't so out of scale with other costs in the game.

Would have preferred the Go to University activity be the culmination of private tutoring scheme or some such. That would have been flavorful, in character with notions of medieval propriety, and still used the travel and activity mechanic. You probably couldn't have resisted calling it Graduation and having the player attend a kegger and toga party though.

Yea I don't really care for how modern this whole thing sounds but my biggest issue is it adding yet even more modifier stacking in a game that needs less modifier stacking.
 
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Opening Remarks​

Good afternoon, and welcome to your first class of the semester! My name is Dr. Areysak, and I’ll be your “CKIII University 101” lecturer.

I already see some raised hands. You, in the first row, ask away.

“Why a University Activity? What does it have to do with Wards and Wardens?”

This is a very interesting question. During the early development of Wards and Wardens, talks of hostages’ education led us to a realization: everything that could influence a character’s education trait happens during childhood. Once a character reaches 16 years of age, they are locked out of any further improvement! And if the player character isn’t directly responsible for the education of their heir, a player can find themselves inheriting an already adult heir character with an education trait they have had no way to influence.

The University Visit activity is the solution we have chosen to open up new possibilities to the player to influence their character’s personal growth. Therefore, as a first aim, it fulfills a gameplay need; secondly, it allows us to expand upon one of the Middle Ages’ many successful inventions, Universities; thirdly, we got to add a new activity!

When we talk of Medieval Universities, we are immediately led to think of the famous names of Western Europe, such as Oxford, Cambridge, and Bologna. The name “University”, in fact, comes from Latin and was born to describe specifically the communities (= universitates) of Latin-speaking teachers and students that congregated in these European cities. However, similar institutions existed all over the Old World. Particularly famous are the Indian “universities”, such as Takshashila and Nalanda; the House of Wisdom in Baghdad was one of the most renowned centers of studies of its age, and Madrasas schools were widespread throughout the Islamic world. In this period, it’s also often difficult to separate, as we would do today, between lay and religious centers of studies, since Christian cathedrals, Muslim mosques and, in particular, Buddhist temples were themselves libraries, scriptoria (i.e., where manuscripts were copied), and educational institutions, or had these institutions develop in their immediate vicinity.

The Activity​

Let’s now have a look at the activity itself, though!

The University Visit is a minor activity that adult landed rulers can always initiate, as long as they have the gold! To keep it in line with the pre-existing decision to Go to University, it is quite expensive. To keep the challenge balanced, the final cost is dynamic (like with all activities) and changes with your tier and era.

View attachment 997900
(Activity selection interface showing the University Visit)

The activity takes 6 months, and can only be started once every 20 years, and only once per location.

In order to Visit a University, you have to select a valid location in your diplomatic range and travel there.

View attachment 997901
(Activity destination selection interface)

You might have noticed, however, that not all valid locations are University seats. As discussed above, large religious centers were often centers of study too, and have been included as potential destinations.

View attachment 997902
(The tooltip of a large religious center)

Being a minor activity, the choice of intents and options is limited but flavorful.
There are only two intents available, but they represent two contrasting approaches to your university experience, and will significantly change both your approach to your studies and the results you can achieve. In fact, every activity event will have at least one special option unlocked by each intent!
“Study Hard” is quite self-explanatory: you went there to study, and study hard you will, no matter the stress cost you’ll have to pay! You try to make the most of your time at University, in order to maximize your chances of success at the end of the activity and increase your rewards.
In fact, the results (and rewards) you obtain at the end of your studies are measured by a value called “Studiousness”, which is a “success” chance similar, e.g., to a Pilgrimage’s Piousness. The activity can’t fail per se, but the entity of your rewards will depend on this value.

“Goliardic Lifestyle” is a completely different approach, inspired by the European Goliards, wandering students and clerics famous for their satirical poetry (for instance the Carmina Burana) exalting the art of drinking and carnal pleasures. With this intent, your aim is to gain as much first-hand experience of life, both inside and outside the walls of the University, indulging in so-called “Goliardic Shenanigans”. I’ll leave you the pleasure of discovering exactly what your character can get up to; the general idea of the intent, however, is to gain less success chance (and therefore less rewards at the conclusion of the activity), but more immediate bonuses such as lifestyle traits, lifestyle xp, and skill points.

View attachment 997903
(Intents view)

On the other hand, we only have one option with 3 levels, which represent how much money you plan to invest in study materials. The option chosen will influence your success chance and final rewards, including an Illustrious artifact! (cost values are still wip)

View attachment 997908
(Options view)

View attachment 997909
(Arrival event)

As you can see, your level of Studiousness is easily traceable from the activity view. To make the interactions more impactful, we have limited the number of guests, which are only a handful of students and teachers, which will be among the wisest minds on the map!

View attachment 997910
(Activity view and teacher’s character view)

View attachment 997911
(Event with Study Hard option)

View attachment 997912
(Event with Goliardic Lifestyle options)

Be ready to gain a whole bunch of stress! Nobody said that getting a degree was easy…

I did mention that your teachers will be among the most brilliant minds around, and I’d like to stress it again because if you manage to make a very good impression on them…

View attachment 997913
(Conclusion event)

You will be able to invite one of them to move back to your court with you!

But hold on, there is something weird with this teacher… What is that?!

View attachment 997914
(Teacher’s character view with education trait tooltip)

Is that… A fifth level of the Education Trait?!

YES!

Concurrently with the University Visit activity, we have added a new level to all education traits. This final level will be super rare, and mostly reserved for University teachers and University graduates who already started with the fourth-tier trait.

Rewards​

As you might have guessed from what has been discussed so far, the main reward for the activity is increasing your education trait one level up. However, there is only a chance to succeed in this endeavor! This chance is higher the lower you current level is (i.e., it’s easier to get from tier 1 to 2 than it is from 2 to 3) and the higher your Studiousness level is.

View attachment 997916
(Tooltip of Tier 4 of Studiousness with the rewards)

However, even if you were to fail at improving your education, you are ensured to gain a number of Perk points that increases with your achieved Studiousness, an assortment of xp and skill points depending on your event choices, and even an Illustrious book if you chose the most expensive option during the activity setup (and therefore went splurging on rare manuscripts)!

View attachment 997917
(A randomly generated Illustrious book)

Conclusions​

This concludes today’s lecture. I hear some buzzing from the end rows, are there any questions?

“But that’s not how Universities worked! No ruler would go to University like a commoner!!”

You are, of course, correct. We are perfectly aware of it. However, we believe that the combined bonuses offered by new gameplay possibilities (i.e., improving your character’s education and skills) and the historical flavor of showing a slice of the life at Medieval Universities more than warranted the exception!

I hope you are excited to Visit a University soon!

This is the last Dev Diary before the July break, so it seems fitting to just say:

School’s out! Have a nice summer! And see you all back in August!
I can finally live out my life fantasy of getting a good education
 
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“But that’s not how Universities worked! No ruler would go to University like a commoner!!”

You are, of course, correct. We are perfectly aware of it. However, we believe that the combined bonuses offered by new gameplay possibilities (i.e., improving your character’s education and skills) and the historical flavor of showing a slice of the life at Medieval Universities more than warranted the exception!

I think this pretty much sums it up.
While you’re at it, you should also let your ruler bartend at a tavern for 6 months so players can improve their eager reveler stats and experience a slice of the life at medieval pubs. Maybe till the fields for a season too.
 
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These dev diaries have gotten so much better since the backlash of the T&T announcement. Thanks for listening to your community :)
Although in fairness a lot of that backlash was people basically freaking out over unfounded assumptions rather than waiting for more information.
 
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Also, I do agree that rulers should be able to build universities outside of where they historically were. However, it should be gated behind a pretty high province development level to prevent spamming.
 
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2. Non-default intents are locked behind Tours and Tournaments, so we try to keep the amount of things in a dlc that require another dlc to a minimum.
Why did you guys DLC lock the intent system? IMO noone is going to buy ToTo for this system and this just seems like something to me you can expand on in the future a lot.
 
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