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CO Word of the Week #12

Thank you for all the positive feedback on last week’s word! It’s great to hear you like the format so we’ll stick to it for the time being. While the tech team is hard at work implementing the code modding support, we can focus on the economy in Cities: Skylines II in today's WoW. At release, the economy did not meet the quality standard we strive for and I apologize for the frustration this has caused. In the post-release patches, we have included fixes for issues present in the economy implementation, but some still remain, and we’re working on resolving those thanks to your reports. The fixes will focus on the underlying system as well as how the information is presented in the game to achieve more clarity that helps you understand the economy better. We’ve received many questions about what parts of the game’s economy are working as designed and what we’re working to change, so let's dive in!

What is the impact of the specialized industries on the local economy?
Providing raw materials locally means companies using them do not have to import them as much from outside connections (or at all), which leads to those industries being more prosperous. Importing from outside connections is a more expensive choice than local availability, so local resources benefit companies’ bottom line. The design team will look into how to make it more clear which companies are importing or exporting, and how you can affect that.

Why are some services free to import while others have a fee?
One part of the Budget panel’s Expenses is the cost of service trade. Only part of the services are charged when traded, and these are electricity, water and sewage. Other services do not cost you anything to import. But why? The cost of these traded services comes in the form of time, as it will take a long time for them to arrive at their destination. This increases the negative effects on the city. For example, a citizen waiting for an ambulance for a long time increases their probability of dying when their health is low for a long time. Additionally, when a citizen is waiting for treatment, they can’t go to work, giving the company a penalty to its Efficiency.

How is “profitability” determined?
In the game, the company's profitability is calculated from the company's revenue and expenses, which include employee salary, resource buying, tax-paying, and daily production. The profitability indicates the possibility for a positive income, and it varies between 0 and 255. When there is no income for the company, and it still needs to pay a lot of expenses, the profitability can become 0. But it doesn't mean the company currently doesn't have any money, but rather predicts the value of revenue or loss of money. Issues like the lack of employees and the lack of input or output resources can cause profitability to fluctuate. When it comes to the profitability of the company, the calculations may change after we evaluate the complexity of the entire economy based on the feedback we’ve received.

What does the monthly balance show?
The game’s user interface includes tools for you to observe and control the overall economy of the city. The monthly balance in the City Economy panel’s Budget tab counts the current Revenues and Expenses together. It shows what is currently the estimated amount of money the city will gain or lose in the current month. Note that one day cycle in the game equals one month! The City Economy has been affected by bugs that caused the expected income (or loss) to not match the actual monthly income of the city, and we’re working to resolve the remaining issues with industrial tax reaching high values for no apparent reason.

What does “9% interest” on a loan mean? How is it calculated?
It will add a Loan Interest to the Budget panel, which is a monthly fee that will apply to your city’s money. It is calculated by the formula LoanRemainAmount * InterestRate every month, and as the remaining loan amount decreases each month, so will the amount your city pays.

We have also received questions about Land Value, so I want to share a quick update about the current state of both the Land Value and Demand systems, as both will have changes and fixes included in the next patch to the game. The Land Value system has been worked on for a while now, with the first improvements available in patch 1.0.19f1, and the demand system will be improved to make it easier to understand. Fixing major systems like the land value takes a bit more time than the usual bug fixes because these elements are connected to the other parts of the game’s economy system. Our goal with these changes is to make the systems more user-friendly to work with so, for example, it’s easier to understand what causes the high rents and how you can affect it. We’ll go over the land value and demand system improvements after all the changes are in, so stay tuned for that.

That’s it for this week. Have a lovely one until next time!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
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This is probably the best WoW since launch.

The topics are very interesting and much needed, also the incoming changes for more clarity about game systems are very appreciated.

Thank you and hopefully you will keep improving the game to bring it to the excellence it deserves.
 
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Lol, this WoW feels a bit like this:
1000062940.jpg
 
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Thank you, I’m really enjoying the new WotW contents!

For the next WotW, I’m hoping for some insights into the AI and traffic simulation. The issue highlighted in this video is quote concerning:

Public transit has 0 influence by imperatur
 
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Thanks for the continued communication.

If the economy is ever up again for one of these deep-dives, I'd love to learn about the trade-offs the team considered when modeling the economy on a city of 10,000 (shared in the dev diary) and how the team expected that model to scale to 100k or 200k cims.
 
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How is “profitability” determined?
In the game, the company's profitability is calculated from the company's revenue and expenses, which include employee salary, resource buying, tax-paying, and daily production. The profitability indicates the possibility for a positive income, and it varies between 0 and 255. When there is no income for the company, and it still needs to pay a lot of expenses, the profitability can become 0. But it doesn't mean the company currently doesn't have any money, but rather predicts the value of revenue or loss of money. Issues like the lack of employees and the lack of input or output resources can cause profitability to fluctuate. When it comes to the profitability of the company, the calculations may change after we evaluate the complexity of the entire economy based on the feedback we’ve received.
That all reads very much like the company's income is determined by a random number generator?
In addition, it very much reads like companies cannot make losses, just not make any income at all.

Frankly, that sounds very strange.
A company should face the danger of making losses and when the company's reserves (cash, bank accounts, loans, whatever) have been exhausted it should go out of business. In turn, upgrading should only occur if there are enough reserves to finance that process.

In combination with last weeks "explanations" (which, as I unfortunately have to say have been as shallow as these now) I take that it doesn't really matter which kind of products actually are produced within the city (as the household as source of demand is only looking for unspecified "ressources") this all makes the "economy" very random and by that, not only unpredictable, but it also makes any player decision about the economy literally moot. Just produce "something", and with some luck your companies will make profit.

A working economic simulation to me however seems to be the very foundation of a city builder game including economy. So I very much support your idea of reworking the economic simulation - the earlier, the better, I think (after the most glaring issues with the game have been fixed, of course).
 
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All your biggest creators are critical and some are even shelving the game. Not going to address that at all? Seems like you do not care about your audience or the free marketing they provide for you, unless it is convenient for you to do so :)
 
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Sigh. I don't know whether I should be content with your specific apology about the broken economy simulation, or be frustrated that you still haven't apologized the entire release fiasco.

I'm learning towards the latter.
 
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Thank you so much for your explanations!

btw:
will there be a kind of difficulty slider in the settings? not only money at beginning etc. also economy things linke how easy or not it is to satisfy companies needs an more?
 
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I just want to register my frustration that the game is almost 4 months old and it’s still very broken. It’s nice to know how the economy should work, but I see nothing to address that the game is not challenging or rewarding as either a city simulator or a city painter, and isn’t even fun to play. I am also frustrated that CO seems to only address positive comments while ignoring the very real problems. I don’t feel like CO listens to it’s biggest fans or creators or addresses their concerns, it just continues to market the game…and in some cases even insults us for caring.

Please listen. We want this game to be successful. But I think you’ve lost your way.
 
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I just want to register my frustration that the game is almost 4 months old and it’s still very broken. It’s nice to know how the economy should work, but I see nothing to address that the game is not challenging or rewarding as either a city simulator or a city painter, and isn’t even fun to play. I am also frustrated that CO seems to only address positive comments while ignoring the very real problems. I don’t feel like CO listens to it’s biggest fans or creators or addresses their concerns, it just continues to market the game…and in some cases even insults us for caring.

Please listen. We want this game to be successful. But I think you’ve lost your way.

Relax and come back in 6 months.
 
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Relax and come back in 6 months.
I intend to. But I still paid for a finished game, and feel the need to register my grievances and exhortations with the developer as they only seem to see positive comments. I don’t think that CO’s PR has helped in any way, but rather only poured gasoline on the fire. This post was more neutral than some in the past, but it still doesn’t address the frustration of the community in any meaningful way, and shows me that management at least still isn’t listening meaningfully either.

It’s cool if people are enjoying the game, but I don’t think it’s right for them to go out of their way to antagonize people who are disappointed and angry about it. I’m not here to antagonize anyone who enjoys it, so please don’t antagonize me.
 
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In my opinion, all residents do not receive their income from the companies, but from an inexhaustible state fund.
Companies do not collect their profits (watch your statistics!) as described and what the human player can affect is insignificant.
Thats a big game design mistake and ulitmately remains the task city painter.
 
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Sigh. I don't know whether I should be content with your specific apology about the broken economy simulation, or be frustrated that you still haven't apologized the entire release fiasco.

I'm learning towards the latter.
The “apologies for the frustration” sounds vaguely like a politicians way of saying “I’m sorry if you’re offended” sorry but not really meaning it, thus rendering it pointless.

I’m truly sorry if that’s not what you intended, but CO: it’s really not enough with so many questions left unanswered. You have to acknowledge the elephant in the room and not release this piecemeal, otherwise you will be apologising once a week. Why not just be humble, do it in one go sincerely, accept responsibility and we can move forward together in making this game what it should be and unite the community?

Trying to adopt a “keep calm and move on, ignore the consumers like it’s nothing” is not going to help. It’s just going to boil over in all the DLC releases as people review bomb it.

EDIT: How is the ETA on the Roadmap and dates etc?
 
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In the context of what's been shared here, it seems obvious that large parts of the game economy are not working as intended. It's great that we're finally getting answers about these core systems, but it makes me wonder why it took so long for this to be addressed? These systems are critical to core gameplay loops and it's frustrating, as someone who bought the deluxe addition based on my trust in CO, that we seem to keep being told "it'll be fixed at some unspecified date in the future" about things that should have been resolved before launch
 
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