Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #109 - Power Blocs

[Solenoidi]

Gotta give the 3D guys something to work on. Implementing a menu to pick some random asset out of it and then slapping that in a province ID is very little work compared to anything else and it increases the value of the DLC for various groups of people massively compared to the work it requires on the programming side. So, really, why not is the real question.

That's just for the implementation and the fallacy of everybody on the team programming crap. Design and Balance wise, that's another thing.

Would appreciate if you did not assume other poster's "fallacies" without better knowledge. Did my message hit a nerve for some reason?

Graphics team also develops the product. Their work must also be planned, led, integrated and tested. The time spent in statues would in my opinion still be better used elsewhere.

 

[Metz]

As I mentioned in another reply, military alliances between GPs continue to work, even if they both have their own Bloc.

So if two GPs with their own blocs go to war with a third party, they can drag everyone in their respective blocs to join in so long as the principles “force” the members to do so?

 

[Erebus115]

These powerblocks look much alike federations in stellaris.

I do not like scores and numbers to grind power blocks levels, feels artificial.

I’d very much liked players being able to play with members behaviour (AI strategies) to decide if they are in or out of the block. Thus, personality of the members influence the block actions, defining the block not the other way round.

Agreed. Between this and the high emphasis on visual customisation (capes? really?), the whole system feels a bit too game-ey for my taste.

I also wonder if the often ideological nature of these Power Blocs is a good idea for representing an era of European geopolitics defined by pragmatism. Would liberal France and autocratic Russia still become long-term allies under this system? Would Prussa and Austria not find common ground as conservative monarchies?

I feel like a stick in the mud, but something just feels off here. There seems to be much more emphasis on tools we can use to define the power blocs, but less about what to actually do with them in wider diplomacy.

 

[Teutonic_Knight_2000]

Perhaps the Northern German Confederation should have been a Power Bloc "Sovereign Empire" - or something similar for Prussia, which had ambitions of German unification.

 

[DangerousOrange]

Will there also be new Diplomatic Options like non aggression pacts ?

 

[sstrong]

Might change “Congress System” to “Metternicht System” which believe is the term generally used to describe Austrias policy towards its sphere of influence at this time.

 

[Erebus115]

How well does the AI handle Power Blocs? Do they form them/manage them well or are they incorehent in their interactions and decisions?

Above all else, this is the big question. However good a diplomatic system is, the AI needs to be able to use it well.

 

[ac566]

I think the desire for having multiple power blocs representing things like the entente or central powers would best fit in as a special type of bloc unlocked with multilateral alliances tech that allows you to be a part of these "super" blocs.

My real concern is more that we might get a shoe-horned in implementation that no one is happy with rather than leaving in some room in the future for a dedicated mechanic centered around "Great War(s)" expansion?

 

[FluffayOne]

Would appreciate if you did not assume other poster's "fallacies" without better knowledge. Did my message hit a nerve for some reason?

Graphics team also develops the product. Their work must also be planned, led, integrated and tested. The time spent in statues would in my opinion still be better used elsewhere.

I mean sure, I'll bite. What would the 3D artists, the 3D artists team lead, and the art design lead work on instead of this for this DLC, outside of more clothes for the characters -- which I'd be happy with as well -- ?. The systems of having Monuments created on a province ID that doesn't exist at game-start already exists with the existing monuments, the UI work for them to be in the building tab exists already, so that mostly leaves cooking up the customization system that's as easy as crafting a new menu with different options that picks assets from a pre-defined set and placing them on specific/random provinces of the Power Bloc Leader for programming and just doing a quick verification of them testing wise.

Testing art assets is a chore but its neither difficult nor that time-consuming once you know what you're looking for when you have a defined and small number of them and I do that for a living. Slotting the customization into the greater system is chump change if the system is planned for it from the beginning compared to everything else in the system.

 

[47pik]

I think the desire for having multiple power blocs representing things like the entente or central powers would best fit in as a special type of bloc unlocked with multilateral alliances tech that allows you to be a part of these "super" blocs.

My real concern is more that we might get a shoe-horned in implementation that no one is happy with rather than leaving in some room in the future for a dedicated mechanic centered around "Great War(s)" expansion?

Yeah it’s pretty clear to me now that power blocks aren’t supposed to represent the WW1 alliances, they’re more broad and identity based. Big multilateral alliances are a different thing.

 

[BlueSpaceCanary]

Any plans for things like supranational political movements within blocs, e.g. "My (UK) industrialists (UK, British East India Company, Hanover) have unionized and are demanding Laissez-Faire", either via lobbies or just through expanding the existing political movements system?

(Obligatory jokey "...or globally? [The Internationale begins playing in the background]" addendum)

 

[galkowskit]

How do the animation looks like if the influenced countries are not neighbours?

 

[IsaacCAT]

Agreed. Between this and the high emphasis on visual customisation (capes? really?), the whole system feels a bit too game-ey for my taste.

I also wonder if the often ideological nature of these Power Blocs is a good idea for representing an era of European geopolitics defined by pragmatism. Would liberal France and autocratic Russia still become long-term allies under this system? Would Prussa and Austria not find common ground as conservative monarchies?

I feel like a stick in the mud, but something just feels off here. There seems to be much more emphasis on tools we can use to define the power blocs, but less about what to actually do with them in wider diplomacy.

What puts me off is the bonus on existing game mechanics that magically you can attain because you are part of a power bloc. What has diplomacy to do with construction points or trade competitiveness? The game already has economy tied variables that affect those (construction buildings, ships, ports, laws, etc...)

The proposed system is immobilistic and rigid. The player that transforms the nation values (politics) and wants to pursue new objectives is tied to an existing power bloc that cannot be easily changed.

Imagine power blocs that are dynamically created following the alignment of nations interests. Having dynamic power blocs allows another layer, i.e., international diplomacy, to be added to the game similar to politics to try and change other nations goals. Power blocs will describe those nations that are aligned and to be part of that power bloc will require sharing the goals of the other members.

Another missed opportunity with the current implementation is for smaller nations to play power blocs to their benefit. For example, an independent nation may cater to opposing power blocs objectives to keep their independence without partaking in any bloc.

To define blocs dynamically the game could use the ai_strategies already in the game, grouping by categories:

 

[TitaniumMan91]

It seems like people are mistaking alliance systems with power blocks. The Entente was a set of 3 matching multi lateral alliances, not really a power block as the games is implementing. What Germany was looking to create out of Russia in Brest Litovsk would have been a power block and NATO would as well, but the Entente and Triple Alliance were more like 3 countries agreeing to be friendly and talk about things before reaching for the sabers.

The Entente, unlike the Triple Alliance and the Franco-Russian Alliance, was not an alliance of mutual defense and so Britain was free to make its own foreign policy decisions in 1914. As British Foreign Office Official Eyre Crowe minuted, "The fundamental fact, of course, is that the Entente is not an alliance. For purposes of ultimate emergencies, it may be found to have no substance at all. For the Entente is nothing more than a frame of mind, a view of general policy which is shared by the governments of two countries, but which may be, or become, so vague as to lose all content".

 

[Desseabar]

I find this a little disappointing, I can see unrecognised blocs having severe limitations compared to recognised ones but having the feature disabled entirely feels extremely harsh. Does this mean that unrecognised powers are now essentially prevented from having their own markets outside of their subjects?

As someone who almost exclusively plays as unrecognised countries because they're more challenging and interesting to play, this significantly disincentivises me from buying the DLC.

i think that allowing unrecognized power blocs allows for cool dynamics of decentralized countries. I can see a world where Ethiopia starts as a power bloc and unification works by pulling those blocs together via diplomacy and war, with different princes fighting for leadership.

 

[riadach]

Perhaps a future technological advance could be "merge power blocks" to allow one's British Empire, French Empire and Russian Empire to come together.

 

[Cynoid]

I'm finding the naming a bit confusing. So, if I understand it right :

- A Power Bloc is defined by its Central Identity. This Central Identity has effects on its own, and define which Principles you can add to your Power Bloc

- The Principles are kind of "perks" (in a RPG meaning) which gives either bonuses to members (or just the leader), or simply affect the way diplo works between members of a Power Bloc

- Depending of the Identity chosen, some Principle will be considered "Primary", which makes them provide a Cohesion bonus in addition to the rest of the effects

- Cohesion impacts mostly your ability to influence (and keep) the countries in your Power Bloc

- The more countries in your Power Bloc, the faster you gets Mandates, which are Principle upgrades/unlock

- If you are not the most prestigious of the PB, you can loose the leader role

I find it rather nice, even if I'm worried about the balance implications of Monuments being available more or less everywhere. The graphic side is also rather intriguing!

 

[BrotherJonathan]

Wow. This is a lot more than I was expecting. Part of me was concerned that Blocs were basically just going to be a late-game "super alliance" with maybe a random buff tacked on. Glad these will be something that you have to make a serious effort to maintain and grow.
Kind of disappointed about only being allowed to be a member of one Bloc at a time, but I understand that the alternative would likely be a little more chaotic than the devs would like.

 

[PDX_H4n1baL]

Really great changes all around. It seems like this captures what was great about Vic 2's spheres while getting rid of the tedious bits, and will make the diplomatic game much more enjoyable.

I have a question about modability for this feature. From the DD, I get the impression that only recognized countries (Major or Great Power rank) can establish power blocs, but I'm interested in modding in some historical "spheres of influence" among unrecognized countries. Are we able to mod the eligibility requirements for starting power blocs? Are we able to mod in a starting power bloc for a country which wouldn't be able to create one normally?

You will be able to mod the conditions for forming a Power Bloc and make it possible for unrecognized.
On the starting Blocs, and everything with Identities and Principles, I'm going to have a conversation with the directors and then I'll make another reply in here to get back with some more details on what's moddable.

 

[PDX_H4n1baL]

Do foreign lobbies help increase leverage?

Yes, they should