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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #110 - Building Ownership & Foreign Investment

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Hello and welcome to another Victoria 3 Dev Diary!

After last week’s look at Power Blocs, we are going to take a look at another major set of changes that are going to arrive with Sphere of Influence and the free 1.7 update.

Namely, a revision of the Building Ownership system and what it allows us to do: Foreign Investment, a much requested feature which makes its debut in 1.7.

You will see that the changes we are making impact your visibility of ownership and the affected Pops throughout the game.

To understand all the mechanics we will be looking at an example country in the heart of Europe.

Ownership types​

It’s 1836. In Bavaria, a proud member of the Zollverein Power Bloc, all buildings are owned by the state or the workers themselves.

Capitalists, Aristocrats, and Clergymen no longer work in these buildings, and most of the Shopkeepers no longer work in production buildings directly. In addition, the Ownership Production Methods have been removed. Instead, ownership works on a per level basis, allowing a mixed ownership structure in the same building.

A popular Logging Camp it seems. Workers, a Financial District and a Manor House own a part.
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In worker-owned buildings employees work for themselves basically. So any dividends they may accumulate, they split amongst themselves. This is the default at game start for many countries (not all) and is a state which you can more or less return to at a later stage of the game with the enactment of Cooperative Ownership, which will expropriate your privately owned buildings over time.

One major exception from the ownership situation at game start are subsistence farms which are owned by a new building we are introducing: Manor Houses.

Now they lounge around in luxury, instead of slumming it with the common folks in less refined taste buildings, we wouldn't want their shoes to be dirtied on a subsistence farm!
Manor Houses are able to own levels of other buildings, in our case at game start all the levels of Subsistence Farms in their own states. They pay their wages and dividends by collecting dividends from the buildings they own and distributing them among their employees.
What type and how many employees they have is determined by a limited set of PMs.

Clergymen or Aristocrats? You can’t get rid of both of them!
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So you can see there are still jobs for Clergymen. What about the Shopkeepers and Capitalists?
Well, they work in the new Financial District buildings, which behave pretty much like the Manor Houses. They too have different employment PMs, can own levels of other buildings and pay their employees by collecting dividends from owned building levels.

Both new buildings expand automatically, depending on how many levels they own. For example if a new level of a privately owned factory is created, a corresponding new level of a Financial District is also generated.

All building levels that you construct are country-owned. Under certain laws, this status can change soon after they are finished constructing. Country-owned buildings come with reduced Economy of Scale bonuses and a bureaucracy cost for each level you own. But in return they can provide additional income based on the building’s dividends which partially get transferred to your treasury.

Not all buildings can be of any ownership type of course, for example barracks or government administrations will always be country-owned.

Summing up, there are now three types of ownership for any building level:
  • Worker owned
  • Privately owned (Financial Districts and Manor Houses)
  • Country owned

If all buildings in Bavaria are owned by the workers or the country itself, how do the first Financial Districts appear, you may wonder!

The main way to get that to happen is the next point on our agenda.

Privatization​

Enter Privatization, whereby you allow country-owned buildings to be sold to Pops.

If you are short on cash, Privatization might help you
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This makes it possible for your Pops to acquire them. Depending on the type of building you are privatizing, they usually get bought either by Aristocrats or Capitalists, using the investment pool’s funds.
If you don’t have any capitalists in your country yet, other Pops may step up though, using the investment pool’s funds to buy a building you put up for sale and become Capitalists in the process, which in turn leads to the first Financial District appearing.

The money will be transferred from the investment pool to your country’s treasury once that happens. The cost of buying a level is determined by its construction cost and is modified by most of the Economic System laws. These laws also affect the efficiency of these transactions, meaning how much money is lost as overhead and how much is being reinvested into the investment pool or the treasury.
One particularly interesting law is Laissez-Faire which upon enactment forces all your country-owned buildings to be put up for sale and will automatically do so for every new building level you construct. Similarly, enactment of other laws like Cooperative Ownership and Command Economy doesn’t immediately change the ownership of all buildings, but rather can start a process that can convert your economy over time.

Insert witty joke about the free market here
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Now let’s take a look at how the different ownership model affects investments from your Pops.

Investment​

The existing logic for how the private investment pool works remains similar to before. So, different Pop types still have different priorities and they will look at factors like estimated productivity, available workforce etc.
When a building is about to be constructed by private investment, we randomly determine who is building it, favoring already existing Financial Districts and Manor Houses over creating new ones.

In a worker-owned economy, the private investment pool will continue to function, but they will only expand their own buildings, not create new ones.

An important fact with this system is that investments do not need to be local. A Financial District or Manor House can invest in any of your country’s states, including your colonies overseas.
This system will create a flow of money from the colonies to your homelands, a stronger centralization of wealth and power and it will end the status of colonies’ Pops making more money than your Pops at home.

Of course the non-local investments also come with some challenges with regards to other countries.

It looks like Prussia has heard about that option and has started investing in your country!

“First they took our chairs, then the tables we used to eat at. What’s next? Our beds?!”
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Foreign Investment​

There are a few ways to acquire Foreign Investment Rights.

First of all, overlords can always invest in their subjects. This is part of the free 1.7 update and will allow you to do Foreign Investment where it matters the most, even if you do not own Sphere of Influence.

Then there are three diplomatic pacts which you can use if you have bought the expansion:
  1. Mutual Investment Rights which allows both countries to invest in each other
  2. One-directional Investment Rights in either direction, so you either demand to be allowed to invest in their country or offer another country to invest in yours

The [redacted] has been [redacted]. We shall see its effects on the 11. of April.
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There is also a Power Bloc Principle group that deals with Foreign Investment which on Tier 3 has the consequence of being able to invest in any member country.

No matter how you got the Investment Rights, you and also your Pops will be able to invest in the target country. Private investment does consider foreign states as potential targets for their expansions, allowing them to build profitable buildings more easily.

As nice as it is that Prussia has invested in new buildings in Bavaria, I don’t think we can let them get away with diverting the profits to Berlin instead of our own population!

Nationalization​

Nationalization allows you to take control of foreign assets in your country. You cannot nationalize other countries’ assets as long as they possess Foreign Investment rights in your country.

Once that is no longer the case, e.g. if Bavaria left the Zollverein Power Bloc, you can peacefully nationalize their building levels in your country. For that you need to pay a sum of money from your treasury. Similarly to Privatization, the sum is determined by the construction cost + modifiers from laws.

You will also be able to nationalize your own Pops’ building levels, both worker-owned and privately owned, if you’d like to take ownership. Nationalization is not seen positively by the affected Pops of course and will radicalize them.

“We should compensate them to reduce the quarrels.”
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But what if the Bavarian coffers are empty yet you still want to take over that juicy productive Furniture Manufacturies that is owned by Prussia?

Well, there is always an alternative.

“Pay them? I don’t think so!”
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You can demand nationalization of a country’s assets in your country. If they accept, their building levels’ ownership changes to your country. If they don’t, you can try and enforce it as a wargoal. If you are successful, you will also remove their Foreign Investment Rights for your country in addition to taking control of their buildings in your country.

Building Registry​

To visualize all these new mechanics, we are introducing the Building Registry, which allows you a customizable look at your country’s situation.

All the building data one could wish for
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This is a major new UI, that similar to the Census Data window, comes with a lot of functionality to filter the available data. Only show buildings outside your country? Sure. See all buildings that are owned by Pops and which are currently not hiring but not fully employed? No problem.

Lots of filter groups to browse through
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We hope you find this as useful as we do. You can access it via the button on the bottom of the Buildings panel.

Really recommend pressing that button
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Implications for the Directly Controlled Investment Pool Game Rule​

As you can imagine, this new system of ownership, geographic wealth extraction, and privatization/nationalization has far-reaching implications on the economic foundations of Victoria 3. It enables a lot of interesting dynamics we haven't been able to model until this time and adds a whole new dimension to your economic laws.

It also comes with the consequence of making the Directly Controlled Investment Pool game rule that we introduced with 1.2 (as a legacy alternative to the new Autonomous Investment system) impossible to maintain. In 1.6 and prior, if this game rule was turned on, the player would be directing all construction efforts. As long as there was money in the investment pool and the construction queue was building a privately-owned building, the cost of construction goods would be coming out of the investment pool first before being carried by the state budget. With the new rules for building ownership, investment rights, and so on in 1.7 this no longer makes sense - there's now a very clear distinction between a building project initiated by a private investor and the state, a potential source of conflict innate to both foreign ownership and the privatization/nationalization mechanics, and even differences between owners in different regions that cannot be represented if all construction projects were player-initiated.

Because of this it no longer makes sense for players to be in charge of both public and private investments simultaneously, and as such the Directly Controlled Investment Pool rule has had to be removed for 1.7 and beyond. While we can't support non-default game rules to the same degree as the standard options, removing a game rule completely is not something we'd ever do without good cause. We know that a smaller fraction of you favored this setting so we want to be clear with why its removal was a necessity to move forward with these improvements to ownership and foreign expansion.

Outlook​

I would like to end today’s Dev Diary by providing a short outlook for what these changes also enable us to do in the future.

The main thing here is affecting Companies.

The way we have reworked ownership allows us to create Company headquarter buildings which can then own specific building levels of industries they care about, determining its profitability from and providing their throughput bonuses only to these. While we cannot provide a concrete timeline for that change at this point, it is something we would like to tackle for one of our next free updates.

That’s it for today. Check back next week when Mikael is going to walk you through what changes 1.7 and Sphere of Influence brings to relations and interactions between Overlords and Subjects, including how these foreign investment mechanics relate to your grip over your extended empire.

Overview for all upcoming Dev Diaries:
Date Topic
4th AprilSubject Interactions
11th AprilLobbies and More on Power Blocs
18th AprilThe Great Game
25th AprilThe Art of Sphere of Influence
2nd MayChangelog 1.7
 
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Why do government owned building suffer from economy of scale debuffs? If it's to motivate privatisation, why not just increase the bureaucracy cost? It seems kind of arbitrary to say that goverment is worse at producing stuff as a principle.
During initial testing we discovered that nationalization felt like an auto-click button basically that you would always want to press. So we added more consequences on all ends pretty much.
Personally, I think it does make sense that government-run buildings work less efficiently. If the private sector were in charge of a government's bureaucratic system for example, it would very likely see efficiency improvements. But maybe that's just a faulty perception being a German ;)
In any case, we will keep an eye on this feedback when SoI releases of course and are happy to adjust it if it really doesn't work well.
 
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Couple scenarios I'm curious about:

1. If I take in war a Persian oil field owned by Britain does Britain keep the ownership? Will Britain be more likely to stop me invading states that they own buildings?

2. If a state I take from Persia has buildings which are Persian capitalist owned does the ownership stay in their Financial districts?

3. If you take control of London or New York do you just take ownership of the stock exchanges and all the profits from the buildings there?
 
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"Because of this it no longer makes sense for players to be in charge of both public and private investments simultaneously, and as such the Directly Controlled Investment Pool rule has had to be removed for 1.7 and beyond."


I very very very dislike.

So I as a player only can build governmental buildings?
No, you can still build any building like before.
You will just not be able to direct what buildings are being built from the private investment money.
 
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Will there be any quality of life features to make it easier to nationalise/privatize at scale? For example, I imagine if I'm a GP and I conquer a new territory, it might be preferable for me to nationalize everything in the newly conquered province and then privatize it. Or i might want to Nationalise all the Oil in my country etc. etc.
 
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Can my nation have urban centers, trade centers, manors, financial districts and government buildings as only buildings?
That is no anything except for those buildings.

That is country would be fully utilizing foreign investments for its own economy (microstate like Luxembourg).
Theoretically, maybe?
Try it out and ping me. I'd love to see it!
 
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Can you add some UI element, like coloring companies red or green, so I can see in the company selection list at a glance if they're be prosperous? And a little more indication of why they aren't?
 
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There’s a lot to unpack here, sorry for all the questions, but here goes:

Do you think the changes to ownership could provide a platform for adding more financial mechanics? Ie, banking, insurance, private and public lending, and international credit?
I would say these wouldn't necessarily require the changes we're making. But the changes also don't invalidate these ideas. So maybe eventually, no concrete plans for any of these at this point though.

Will capitalists buy/sell buildings from/to each other?
Not at the moment, no.
Are speculation and market bubbles modeled?
Not really. If there's highly profitable targets, you could theoretically see a bunch of investments into that particular state+building which would then reduce profitability, but not to a point of crashing I'd assume.
If a country my capitalist’s have invested in goes bankrupt or nationalizes foreign industry, will my capitalists create a lobby to invade and demand compensation?
Good question. I actually don't know if we could set it up with the current Lobbies systems since I was not really involved after initial design discussions. I'd recommend asking it again when we publish the Dev Diary on Lobbies!
 
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Thanks for your suggestion.
I'll see if that'd be a feasible alternative to employ bureaucrats. I do see some problems with it though which I'll need to investigate first.
Thanks for the transparency I really appreciate it!

I’m just guessing, but I suspect the problem you mentioned may be in a scenario where country A builds a factory in country B, where do the bureaucrats come from? I would just like to suggest that’s it’s perfectly fine to hire the bureaucrats from the local sources at the factory. They are employees not owners. You could even make it so that each country-owned building also requires a bit of paper for its production to represent the inefficiencies of bureaucracy. And you can let their wages be dependent on the local wage rates if you can’t or don’t want to tie it the government budget spending.

But regardless of what you guys decide to do, I appreciate you guys taking feedback and continuing to improve this amazing game.
 
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You will just not be able to direct what buildings are being built from the private investment money.
Do other rules about private investment stay the same? Like if you private investment pool is small and cannot utilize all the available by law construction, you can still use all the remaining construction points for private use?

If you decide to privatize the building, will you investment pool first be used to buy it out, before building something else?

Will there be any new "internal" non gameplay-limitations limitations for buildings from investment pool, foreign investment? Like "don't build new buildings if Infrastructure is at the limit" or similar.
 
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This is one major changes I like the most out of all the updates!! Also love the new building registry, QoL improvements like this just shows that the game is going in the right direction.

I still have some questions regarding the ownership though.

1. What’s going to happen to the skyscraper buildings? Is it duplicated with the new financial district, especially the Trade Nexus PM?
2. Can manor houses and financial districts spawn in multiple states in each country? And how to determine where they can spawn (if multiple of such building is possible)?
3. What happen to the existing ownership, both national and foreign one, if one country got annexed?
4. What happen to ownership of some unique buildings e.g. Panama canel? Are they follow the same rules as other buildings?
5. Can we have financial district upgraded to skyscrapers, maybe visually in the late game? I really wish I could see a New York city skyline filled with skyscrapers in this game, pleasssssssse.
1. Skyscrapers are still there. The Trade Nexus PM provides a trade route quantity multiplier, so I'm not sure how it would relate? Is this in relation to question 5? If so, see answer on that :D
2. Yep, there can be as many manor houses and financial districts as you have states. There's a random chance function to determine where it spawns.
3. Depends what you mean with each of these terms. Any country-owned buildings' ownership is transferred to the winning country, no matter where the building is located. Any privately-owned buildings remain in place and they also keep their possessions, no matter where they are.
4. Nothing changes for unique buildings pretty much
5. Not with release of SoI at least. We do have very cool new 3d models for these financial districts though. We could theoretically think about turning them into a skyscraper if size is above 100 and you have all the tech etc. for example, but it's nothing we're planning at this point.
 
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Autonomous investment doesn't exist until you build first construction sector.
Reasonable way to fix it would be adding construction sector PMs to subsistence farms and urban centers - this way you don't have to activate it when you build first level of construction sector, as those would exist since start.

Yes, this would mean Qing can industrialize faster, as they would have much higher construction capacity, even if it was limited to wood/fabric PM (first level).
But then you wouldn't have to build as many construction sectors.
 
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Thanks Paradox, now I can finally “liberate” Venezuelans from their own incompetent government and capitalists and set up a client-state as Brazil where Brazilian capitalists own the oil fields!
 
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I still do not understand how foreign investment works construction wise. If Prussia invests in a Bavarian Furniture Factory, does it go into a Prussian government building queue, Prussian private queue, or Bavarian private queue? Sometimes I just want another country to get levels of mines or plantations, so that I can import the resource, and don't really care about then getting the profits, so it's mostly just important to me - how fast can I build things in different countries.
 
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This is the biggest change to the gameplay-loop since the war changes or the original introduction of Auto-investment. I like how it lays the foundation for things to come, seemingly company ownership.

Thought: have you considered moving the investment pool source from the pops to these buildings? Right now we have 20% of capitalist income going to the investment pool, but when the income is paid by the building it might as well be 20% of financial district profits, no?

I feel like this has potential in regards to things like experiments with private debt/interest rates, companies / districts modeling investment banks investing in their own expansion.

Edit: it allows you to mess with having a seperate debt / investment pool per company. But it does remove the pop type determining what type of building is built. So it's an interesting tradeoff.
Yeah. Building based investment pools would be awesome, wouldn't they?
It's definitely something we've talked about especially in relation to the potential company changes. Doing that would require a significant rework of very fundamental code though.
It would require more design and tech investigations before we can make any kind of more concrete statement on its feasibility.
 
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Autonomous investment doesn't exist until you build first construction sector.
Reasonable way to fix it would be adding construction sector PMs to subsistence farms and urban centers - this way you don't have to activate it when you build first level of construction sector, as those would exist since start.

Yes, this would mean Qing can industrialize faster, as they would have much higher construction capacity, even if it was limited to wood/fabric PM (first level).
But then you wouldn't have to build as many construction sectors.
We need not only natural construction output, but also a construction input, this will solve the Qing problem.
 
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So a question,

As far as I understood, you could just like build a farm, plantation or industrial plant and etc from the state budget and it would be owned by the country until you privatise it by “selling” it to aspiring capitalists or capitalists and receive the costs from investment fund into the treasury pool? Right?

Then how could we force the investment AI not blow its budget on things so that it could “afford” to pay the cost of privatization?
As has been mentioned in other replies, AI considers anything up for sale compared to building new buildings. So a productive building you're privatizing may stay "on sale" for some time until the investment pool is filled enough, and then will likely be bought.
 
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