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Tinto Talks #6 - April 3rd, 2024

Welcome to the sixth Tinto Talks, where we talk about the design and features of our not yet announced game, with the codename ‘Project Caesar’.

Hey, before jumping into todays topic, I would like to show something very fresh out of the oven, based on your feedback last week. This is why we are doing these Tinto Talks, to make Project Caesar your game as much as ours...

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Today we will delve into three concepts that are rather new to our games, but first, we’ll talk about locations a bit more.

Not every location on the map is the same, especially not in a game of such scope as Project Caesar. By default, every ownable land location is a rural settlement, but there are two “upgrades” to it that can be done. First, you can find a town in a location, which allows you to increase the population capacity of the location and allows for a completely different set of buildings than a rural settlement. Finally, you can grant city rights to a town, which allows for even further advantages. Now you may wonder, why don’t I make every location into cities? Besides the cost and the population requirement, there is also the drawback that each of them tend to reduce your food production, while also adding more nobles, clergy and lots of burghers to your country.

Stockholm, Dublin and Belgrade are examples of towns at the start of the game, while cities include places like Beijing, Alexandria and Paris.

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Here you can see the control that Sweden currently has.

Control
Every location that you own has a control value, which is primarily determined by the proximity it has to the capital, or another source of authority in your country. There are only a few things that can increase it above the proximity impact, but many things that can decrease it further.

This is probably the most important value you have, as it determines how much value you can get out of a location, as it directly impacts how much you can tax the population in that location, and the amount of levies they will contribute when called. A lack of control, reduces the crown power you gain from its population, while also reduces the potential manpower and sailors you can get, and weakens the market attraction of your own markets, making them likelier to belong to foreign markets if they have too low control.


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Proximity
So what is proximity? It is basically a distance to capital value, where traveling on the open sea is extremely costly. Proximity is costly over land, but along coastlines where you have a high maritime presence you can keep a high proximity much further. Tracing proximity along a major river reduces the proximity cost a fair bit, and if you build a road network that will further reduce the proximity costs.

There are buildings that you can build, like a Bailiff that will act as a smaller proximity source, but that has the slight drawback of adding more nobles to the location, and with a cost in food for them.

Maritime Presence
In every coastal location around your locations, or where you have special buildings, you have a maritime presence. This is slowly built up over time based on your ports and other buildings you have in adjacent locations. Placing a navy in the location helps improve it quicker, but blockades and pirates will decrease it quickly, making it absolutely vital to protect your coastlines in a war, or you’ll suffer the consequences for a long time.

As mentioned earlier, the maritime presence impacts the proximity calculations, but it also impacts the power of your merchants in the market the seazone is a part of.

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Stay tuned, next week we’ll be doing an overview of the economy system, which has quite a lot of new features, as well as features from older games.
 
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Will the new control mechanic make large nations like the mongol empire or byzantium -> rome much worse than smaller nations? To be more precise, does it completely stomp going wide as a playstyle or will it still be possible? It seems like it's an alternative to govcap, but it'd be nice to know.
 
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Thanks Johan! This looks crazy complex, but intuitively it makes sense.
do you already have an idea of the roads/major rivers that you will be adding, at least to the main played areas? I am curious about how this will affect major European powers with big non coastal areas, like Iberia, France, Eastern Europe, Russia....
 
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You talk about buildings, are we going to be unlocking them via eu4 like tech or imperator rome like tech tree? You didn't mention great projects today, are we gonna be able to make ours like in imperator or are they fixed like in eu4 and ck3. If they are fixed i think i speak for everyone when i say we'd like to see more of them then there are in eu4 but maybe ppl are happy with the amount we have now.
 
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It takes several years to upgrade a town to city, and that only so it can ALLOW all other tbhings..

Can you clarify please whether towns are meant to be "market towns" as per historical information or places which had town/city rights as given by their overlord?

In the UK, there's a defined "cathedral city", but in most other contexts I would translate market town and town rights, so I'm wondering where the border between these goes.

How many towns vs cities in Livonia at this time?
 
Not every location on the map is the same, especially not in a game of such scope as Project Caesar. By default, every ownable land location is a rural settlement, but there are two “upgrades” to it that can be done. First, you can find a town in a location, which allows you to increase the population capacity of the location and allows for a completely different set of buildings than a rural settlement. Finally, you can grant city rights to a town, which allows for even further advantages. Now you may wonder, why don’t I make every location into cities? Besides the cost and the population requirement, there is also the drawback that each of them tend to reduce your food production, while also adding more nobles, clergy and lots of burghers to your country.

Stockholm, Dublin and Belgrade are examples of towns at the start of the game, while cities include places like Beijing, Alexandria and Paris.


Control
Every location that you own has a control value, which is primarily determined by the proximity it has to the capital, or another source of authority in your country. There are only a few things that can increase it above the proximity impact, but many things that can decrease it further.

This is probably the most important value you have, as it determines how much value you can get out of a location, as it directly impacts how much you can tax the population in that location, and the amount of levies they will contribute when called. A lack of control, reduces the crown power you gain from its population, while also reduces the potential manpower and sailors you can get, and weakens the market attraction of your own markets, making them likelier to belong to foreign markets if they have too low control.

Hi Johan,

Will the player be able to set tax rates per location or per area?

Also, will the player be able to bribe nobles, burgers, etc of a specific location or area to increase control, albeit temporarily? For example, bribe nobles of a location or area to have more levies for times of war, but have it only be a temporary effect and you have to bribe them even more to prolong the effect.

Additionally, is it possible to have a toggle for the zoom-in to terrain political map mode (i.e. Imperator)? Seems like an even split amount the community and having it be a toggle seems like an easy way to please everyone.

Lastly, will increasing Control be a meaningless click like decreasing autonomy in EU4? Or will it be tied various things like the types of building in the location, how much food is in the location, the tax rate of the location, the pops of your culture or added accepted culture in the location, how loyal the factions of the location are, and lastly, the type of location it is (farmland vs town vs city, land directly under the crown or under noble)?
 
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Vgh are you casually perpetuating the history myth that only males fought in war?
:rolleyes::rolleyes: Ever hear of Jeanne d'Arc?
Of course, but but I think women fighting in wars were a negligible percentage. Maybe in militas defending cities yes, but in levies and later in stable armies, I don't think
 
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These changes are exciting, but I’m concerned that having the start date pulled back will make content for the mid to late game less interesting. Do you have any plans to improve “baroque” era gameplay, or even to split EU4’s timeline so that the age of revolutions gets more focus?
 
Could naval presence serve a role in certain easy-to-defend locations? For example, Ceuta is a thin peninsula, so a navally dominant Portugal could much more easily defend it from land attack in a way that they could not protect Tangier. Could apply such a system to Gibraltar as well.
 
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How powerful is the navy-induced control going to be? Is it possible for a naval power such as Great Britain to have greater control over colonial possessions than, say, the Scottish Highlands, due to the sheer power of the Royal Navy?
 
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Not really.
A bit sad about that. I like the MEIOU system where the flipside of having low control was that your estates were wealthier and they would build more and give you more armies. Will this be the same in EU5? Ideally as a player in a game you want to have control, but having low control should benefit the estates which should benefit the player when they build things for you
 
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Really hoping that the UI looks a lot more condensed later on. I know this is pretty new, but its a very spacious UI... Lots of dead space. I like efficiency and being able to see all my numbers and spreadsheets. Awesome tinto talk though!
 
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I feel I'm getting dangerously hyped.. First up, I love that you listened to the feedback regarding estates but also everything else in this talk is amazing news imo. Keep it up! Also I don't really know how to describe it well but I love how detailed the geographic outlines of the map are, wether it's true or just in my head, it feels like recent games didn't have this amount of detail and just went for more gamey looking country outlines.
 
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Oh neat. Highlights for me include:
  1. I really appreciate you adding in more estates. They made the game fun, and Victoria 3's stubornness with only a limited number of interest groups really made its political system boring and unrealistic. I hope to see more unique estates this time around!
  2. I really, really love the whole infrastructure being important deal. Roads and infrastructure affecting centralization is definitely a big part of the early modern time period and will help represent states centralizing and becoming more effective.
  3. I also like the importance of naval supremacy. In EU4 I would declare a war without any ships and then I would just occupy my enemy and would not suffer at all. This is deeper and more realistic.
  4. River countries rejoice! This will make Egypt, Burma, Khmer/Lan Xang and China really more realistic and unique. I love this.
  5. I like the towns and cities deal even if it is far too Imperator-y. Hope the limitations feel natural!
  6. The economy seems to be really cool too. I like how nominal control doesn't seem to be enough for economic control. Our lands far away being able to slide into someone else's market limits expansion in a meaningful way and makes internal planning all the more important and fun.
  7. One thing I don't like and will keep saying every Tinto Talk is that I still kind of dislike the UI graphics and skins.
This is a nice one. Keep cooking!
 
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So early game will incentivize vassal gameplay to distribute control, and presumably technology makes late game control spread farther/you can maintain more control buildings so you can actually "centralize".

This seems really good for actual differences between tall and wide gameplay. Awesome job.
 
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