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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #111 - Subject Improvements

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Happy Thursday, it's time for more Sphere of Influence / Update 1.7 news!

One of the many benefits of being a Victorian-era Great Power is that you might get to lord over not just your own people, but other nations as well. Whether acquired through brutal conquest, colonial machinations, or willing subserviency, countries subjugated under your leadership can benefit your empire in a number of ways:
  • they expand your market
  • they provide you with a share of their Prestige
  • they may compensate you with taxes in exchange for your protection
  • they may join your wars
  • etc.

This doesn't mean subjects will always just lie back and accept you exploiting them. Overlords that see their subjects as nothing but buffer zones and cash cows could in time come to learn that patience can run thin, leading to calls for independence. And in this era of nationalism, your subject declaring their autonomy could prove the perfect pretense for your worst rival to upset the balance of power.

We're introducing a number of enhancements to gameplay around managing your subjects, or indeed managing your own status as a subjugated nation if that's more your speed. These enhancements are meant to improve interactivity and AI responsiveness, while also introducing a number of quality-of-life features and highly requested additional mechanics. Some features below are available in the Sphere of Influence expansion, while others will come to everyone as part of Update 1.7.

Liberty Desire​

The first and most obvious feature you will encounter relating to your subjects in Update 1.7 is Liberty Desire, a measure of how pressing the issue of autonomy and independence is to the people (particularly the ruling class) in the subjugated nation. At high levels, an AI subject could become rebellious and might make some terribly rude demands of their overlord; at low levels, they will be complacent and cooperative, enabling their overlord to relax and maybe squeeze them a bit more, as they please.

For AI countries, Liberty Desire will strongly influence their strategy with respect to their overlord. Four additional AI strategies have been added:
  • Break Free: the AI attempts to become independent from their overlord
  • Increased Self-Reliance: the AI attempts to increase their autonomy and become less dependent on their overlord, but will not seek outright independence
  • Maintain Autonomy: the AI wants to maintain their autonomy and relationship with their overlord just as it is
  • Integrate with Suzerain: the AI wants closer integration with their overlord and will loyally comply with their wishes

But Liberty Desire is not just for the AI, it also informs what human players can do, and the level of Liberty Desire can have a direct effect on the country and its pops as well. The current level of Liberty Desire is visualized much like Legitimacy, as a tiered meter with different effects at different levels. Unlike Legitimacy it is never static - Liberty Desire is always either increasing or decreasing, the question is at what speed and what you (as overlord or subject) will do about it.

The British East India Company, with its largely self-sufficient economy and powerful standing army, could become a problematic subject for Great Britain unless relations and lobbies are kept in check, and concessions may have to be granted to keep them loyal to the crown.
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A multitude of factors play into Liberty Desire, providing you with a lot of different strategies for how to keep it under control (or perhaps increase it, if you're the subject).
  • Relations: obviously, high relations will lower Liberty Desire and vice versa
  • Relative Prestige: the greater the difference in Prestige between overlord and subject the lower the Liberty Desire. The less autonomous your subject is, the greater the Prestige difference you need to maintain to depress Liberty Desire.
  • Economic Dependence and Lobbies: explained in greater detail below
  • Market Isolation or supply problems: if you cannot provide your subject with effective access to your market, they will be more inclined to demand sovereignty
  • Change Rate scaling: the higher or lower Liberty Desire gets, the slower its rate of progression, giving you more opportunities to manipulate it with Diplomatic Actions (which we'll discuss soon)

Economic Dependence​

Another metric introduced in Update 1.7 is Economic Dependence, which measures exactly what it sounds like: how dependent country A is on country B's economy. Economic Dependence doesn't do anything directly, but feeds into other metrics such as Liberty Desire and the Cohesion of Trade League-type Power Blocs.

A major aspect of Economic Dependence is how much of the nation's economy is owned by the other country through foreign investments, either directly or through pop investors. If you want to make your subjects dependent on you, make sure you provide all of their good jobs.

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If you do not share a market with the other country, the secondary aspect of economic dependence consists of the value of trade between your two nations. But in most cases where Economic Dependence matters, you do share a market, which introduces another few factors.

First off, the difference in GDP between the countries in the market has an impact.

But much more interestingly, how much your economy provides for the other nation's pops - and how much they are able to provide for themselves - is a crucial factor. As a market leader, you're considered to be providing anything the market member does not provide for themselves, in this case luxuries like Opium, Fruit, Luxury Clothes, and Tobacco.

The more you're able to provide for yourself, the more you can offset this factor. In this case, Columbia produces most of the Grain they consume, which is their dominant demand. As a result they more than offset the luxuries provided by membership in the British market.

As a result, from the viewpoint of Great Britain, if I want to increase Columbia's economic dependence on me I should consider producing an excess of the goods they aren't able to fully provide for themselves, such as Liquor. Thinking longer-term, I could also try to take measures to make their domestic staple industries unviable, making me the dominant supplier of (for example) Grain or Clothes or Furniture throughout the empire, while my colonial subjects' economies consists of producing cash crops for the benefit of my own people or industries.

Note that this part of the calculation is currently WIP and may be altered for legibility and consistency before release, but the principles will stay the same.
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Lobbies​

In the Sphere of Influence overview we mentioned Lobbies, which are also crucial to keeping Liberty Desire under control across your empire. We will go deeper into Lobbies next week, but for now I can mention that subject nations will almost always have two Lobbies relating to their overlord: one of them a proponent of closer ties with the overlord, while the other is opposed to the overlord and devoted to independence. The relative power of these Lobbies depends on which Interest Groups support them, how powerful those Interest Groups are, and whether or not they are currently in government, which directly feeds into Liberty Desire as well.

As an overlord, with the Sphere of Influence expansion you will have some indirect influence over this by sponsoring the creation and maintenance of lobbies in other countries, which we will learn more about next week. As a subject, you have more direct control: if an Interest Group supports ties with your overlord, you can try to suppress them, remove them from power, even incite them to revolution and defeat them to keep your Liberty Desire high (though beware this could rouse your overlord into supporting their side!).

Subject Actions​

So as a subject, why would you want your Liberty Desire to be high? You actually probably don't want to keep it high, since it can mean less stability in your country (as reflected by greater risk of Radical generation, as people demand their freedom). But when your Liberty Desire has reached a high enough level, you can make demands of your overlord which are hard for them to ignore.

Increase Autonomy: previously available only as a Diplomatic Demand, you can now more gently request an increase to your autonomy when your Liberty Desire is high enough. Should the overlord decline this request the subject can demand full independence, so the stakes are quite high. If the request is granted, Liberty Desire will drop to much more manageable levels.

Demand State: if your overlord controls a state that is both adjacent or a homeland to you, directly or through another subject, you can demand they give you that state under certain conditions.

Request Payment Relief: you can request that your overlord reduce your payment burden. (Sphere of Influence only)

Request Support for Regime: a pact where the overlord provides overt support for your rule, granting you Legitimacy. This is reversible, so the overlord can grant this pact on their own if they wish. (Sphere of Influence only)

Request Knowledge Sharing: a pact where the overlord provides the subject with a tech spread boost, letting them catch up to the state-of-the-art quicker than usual. This is also reversible, letting the overlord display their benevolence unprompted. (Sphere of Influence only)

For example, you might wish to demand an increased level of autonomy, or relief from excessive payments.

Once one of these demands have been accepted your Liberty Desire will decrease, reflecting the diplomatic impact of the concession your overlord agreed to.

Overlord Actions​

Most of the new options are available for overlords towards their subjects, but follow the same principle - if Liberty Desire is low enough you can demand more from your subject, although this is likely to increase Liberty Desire and maybe even cause it to increase over time. Similarly, you can grant special privileges to depress Liberty Desire.

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The following actions will be coming in Update 1.7 / Sphere of Influence:

Increase and Decrease Autonomy: when Liberty Desire is particularly low, the overlord can force a decrease to their subject's autonomy without making a Diplomatic Demand for it. Full annexation is possible only for Puppets / Vassals, and still requires a Diplomatic Demand.

Grant and Take State: a much requested feature, as an overlord you can now benevolently decide to grant territory to your subject. The state you select must belong either to you or another one of your subjects, and must either be adjacent to the subject or a homeland of one of their primary cultures (and in that case, it cannot also be a homeland for another subject that is adjacent, and therefore a better fit). Granting a state will of course reduce Liberty Desire, often by a substantial amount, especially if it's a homeland. Transferring a state from another subject will of course increase the Liberty Desire of the subject you transferred it from. In the case of Puppet or Vassal subjects, you can even transfer their states to yourself if Liberty Desire is sufficiently low (not their capital though).

Exempt from Service: for subjects that are forced to join the overlord's Diplomatic Plays, this pact lets overlords exempt the subject so they stay out of the conflict.

Grant Own Market: cuts the subject off from your shared market and makes them run their own. This could be useful in cases where you want your subjects to be a trading partner rather than fully integrated with your economy, limit migration, or reserve your convoys.

Reduce or Raise Subject Payments: for Subject Types that must pay a tax to their overlord, these "add-on pacts" allow you to either decrease or increase the amount paid in exchange for a change in Liberty Desire progress. (Sphere of Influence only)

Appoint Colonial Governor: lets the overlord select a new Head of State for the subject. The options the overlord has available depends on their laws vis a vis who the subject is - under some laws you could permit a local governor to take charge, while under others only hopefuls from the empire's capital are permitted. (Sphere of Influence only)

Evangelize: spreads the overlord's state religion in the subject, increasing conversion rates. (Sphere of Influence only)

A nifty cheat sheet to remind you of the effects of different subject types and compare between them has been added to the Subjects tab UI, where you also have easy access to the Liberty Desire values of your subjects, sort functions, and a list of the Overlord actions you can issue for each subject. If the symbols aren't self-explanatory to you, they're of course tooltippable!
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Support Independence​

Support Independence is a new Diplomatic Pact, which a country can establish to commit to support another country's subject if they declare independence from their overlord. Once the Diplomatic Play has been declared, any supporters will automatically join on the subject's side. As a side effect this pact also increases Liberty Desire progression in the subject, so over time supporting a subject's independence may lead to greater autonomy if not full independence.

Supporting the sovereignty of your subject's rivals is a common strategy among aspiring imperialists, and subjects looking to become independent can also cozy up to other nations and ask for their support, hypothetically speaking of course.

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Improved Imposition of Laws​

We introduced the ability to impose laws on your subjects in Update 1.5, but at that time the implementation was so rudimentary it was almost like an easter egg for the few who discovered it. In Update 1.7, you can now impose laws on your subjects directly from the Subjects tab.

When you start imposing a law, the other country will get an event where they can respond to the demand. They can choose to outright refuse, which they might do if their Liberty Desire is high or their chance of passing the law is very low.

You will now also be told what their chances of passing the law is before you commit to it.
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They can also choose to start enacting it right away, giving them a +10% enactment chance for the duration, or deferring it until later. If they are already passing a law at the time you send the demand, they can choose to cancel their current law at no penalty in favor of your request, or wait until the time is right. While they're committed to enacting the law, they cannot cancel it until it's complete. They can however abandon the attempt, and may do so if they've made no progress after several years, but this will hurt relations with you.


As a player, your AI overlord may make these demands of you as well, and you have the same options to deal with them.
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Conclusion​

These new interactions with your subjects (or your overlord), informed by the Liberty Desire metric, Economic Dependence system, and Lobbies, is meant to add more difficulty, depth, and interactivity to your imperialist projects - or as a subject, give you the ability to plan for your eventual independence. While most of these mechanics are available in Update 1.7, several of the new interactions are a component of the Sphere of Influence expansion. Some of the mechanics, such as imposition of laws and diplomatic actions limited to countries you have special relationships with, also integrate with the Power Bloc mechanics in Sphere of Influence to give you a more unified way of interacting with countries in your sphere, whether they're subjugated to you directly or merely in the same Bloc as you.

These features also add exciting new potentials for more targeted interactions with specific countries without cluttering up the lens interface where more generic actions are shown, permitting for more custom interactions between countries to be added in the future. Modders should also be able to make good use of the new options we've added to Diplomatic Actions, such as modifier support.

As mentioned earlier, next week Wiz will be back to go into more detail on Lobbies, and what they provide for the upcoming Sphere of Influence expansion. Until then!

Overview for all upcoming Dev Diaries:
Date
Topic
11th April
Lobbies and More on Power Blocs​
18th April
The Great Game​
25th April
The Art of Sphere of Influence​
2nd May
Changelog 1.7​
 
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Looks great!

But what about asking your subject to conquer one of its neighbours or committing to support it if it does?

I have really enjoyed that feature in EU4.
 
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Seems odd that dependence is only for pop needs. You'd think important goods like tools and weapons and engines would make you dependent as well.
 
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Another thing that hit me. Will Lobbies be used also by independent countries (or some independent countries will start as some kind of vassal)? The main thought for me was Balkan countries and Greece which was a playground between various great powers.
 
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Would it be possible for certain colonial subjects to have their liberty desire based on local unrest? I can’t imagine the people governing the EIC/Raj, with their wealth, home and families all in Britain, ever wanting independence. But they might ask for autonomy to grant concessions to the natives to avoid an uprising. Failure to grant autonomy, rather than leading to an independence war, would instead lead to a native revolution to overthrow the colonial government.

Obviously for other colonies, such as Canada, there would have to be a distinction, but I would really hate to keep seeing independent indias be led by lord Humperdinck from Wessex
 
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Why not have puppets or appointed colonial governors be able to instantly impose laws in subjects at the cost of radicals rather than having to get the subject to debate and vote on it?
 
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Looks great!

But what about asking your subject to conquer one of its neighbours or committing to support it if it does?

I have really enjoyed that feature in EU4.
Maybe they could adapt the strategic objective mechanic to give your subject a boost to then likelihood they go for a province, on the understanding you’ll back them
 
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I'd like to mention a possible addition to the game that fits well into the theme of the dev diary: a diplomatic demand that allows you to liberate+protectorate a country from an enemy country for greatly increased infamy and maneuvers. Currently one can only liberate and wait 5 years for the truce to expire while keeping your fingers crossed that someone doesn't steal your possible future subject.

Additionally, perhaps puppets and colonial subjects (say British East Africa) could have higher enactment success chances or instantaneous enactments?
 
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It would be nice to be able to support independence for non-subjects too somehow. For example if Russia gets a potential for a Polish uprising, it would be very nice for a French player to be able to fan the flames and tip the scales there.
 
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EIC government itself should never seek independence, since the company's headquarters, with its board of directors, is actually in London and is chartered by the Crown, which could revoke it and take over. Moreover, the company is largely owned by stockholders back in Britain (I would not be shocked if the Crown also owned some shares in it, too), so the company government declaring independence would make little sense here.

Furthermore, EIC operates in a bit of strange arrangement: while the company owns the territories, the Governor-General of the territories are appointed by the Crown, a consequence of both the Regulating Act of 1773 and Pitt's India Act of 1784, effectively creating a joint government of India by EIC and the Crown with the latter holding the ultimate authority. As we have seen, in the case of the American Revolution, in all the thirteen colonies except for one, the governor did not defect to the Patriot side and were forced into an exile. The exception was American-born Governor of Connecticut, Jonathan Trumbull. But this is a settler colony, in whom the governor was born and a native of, we are talking about. A colonial governor, who is almost certainly not born in India and not of any subject native population, in EIC is highly unlikely to make a common cause with the natives.

The only outcome you would see as a result of high liberty desire is a civil war from the subject populations in EIC's territories that seeks to both overthrow the company rule *and* to declare independence from the company's overlord. Of course, India being diverse as they are, as we have seen in the historical Sepoy Rebellion, not everyone in India will agree to overthrow and independence, especially if it means being ruled by a group whom they despised. A classic case of divide-and-conquer here.
 
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This looks great and I am especially pleased to see the new AU strategies. Will this replace an existing strategy or occupy a new 'slot'?

You explain why players would want Liberty Desire to be high. Is there any reason why players would want it to be low?

I'm hoping that the Evangelize action is a step towards acknowledging that this was an age of missionary activity, which I hope will one day be the centre of a patch cycle.

A lot of good additions.

How will the EIC work with Liberty Desire, I see that they have it. But after the Sepoy Rebellion, the UK passed the Government of India Act 1858 which nationalized the EIC and transformed India from being ruled by the EIC to being ruled by Britain directly.
The Act made the Crown, rather than the Company, the sovereign power in British India. But it wasn't exactly direct rule from London in the way that Moscow tightly controlled the SSRs. The Raj had its own government, budget, and legal system. The Indian Army was distinct, but not separate, from the British Army.

There is definitely a conceptual problem here though. Does Liberty Desire represent the Indians' desire for freedom from Britain, or the Company's desire for freedom from Her Majesty's Government? Those are quite different things.
 
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With all of this, it should become much more difficult for someone to become the 2d or or 3d world power starting with a small country and making every small country its subject. It will be very interesting!
 
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This looks great and I am especially pleased to see the new AU strategies. Will this replace an existing strategy or occupy a new 'slot'?

You explain why players would want Liberty Desire to be high. Is there any reason w would want it to be low?

The Evangelize action is also a step towards acknowledging that this was an age of missionary activity, which I hope we will day be the centre of a patch cycle.


The Act made the Crown, rather than the Company, the sovereign power in British India. But it wasn't exactly direct rule from London in the way that Moscow tightly controlled the SSRs. The Raj had it's own government, budget, and legal system. The Indian Army was distinct, but not separate, from the British Army.

There is definitely a conceptual problem here though. Does Liberty Desire represent the Indians' desire for freedom from Britain, or the Company's desire for freedom from London? Those are quite different things.
And a tricky one to resolve, because in a lot of instances in this era, the popular sentiment and the elite sentiment towards independence were very different
 
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This. Please Devs consider giving the EIC and the Dutch Company a different treatment with like -100% permanent liberty desire. I dont want to see shenanningans in which half of the games they declare independence because they clearly more powerful economically. The only way the EIC should declare independence is if they have a civil war and a native takes over.

EIC government itself should never seek independence, since the company's headquarters, with its board of directors, is actually in London and is chartered by the Crown, which could revoke it and take over. Moreover, the company is largely owned by stockholders back in Britain (I would not be shocked if the Crown also owned some shares in it, too), so the company government declaring independence would make little sense here.

Furthermore, EIC operates in a bit of strange arrangement: while the company owns the territories, the Governor-General of the territories are appointed by the Crown, a consequence of both the Regulating Act of 1773 and Pitt's India Act of 1784, effectively creating a joint government of India by EIC and the Crown with the latter holding the ultimate authority. As we have seen, in the case of the American Revolution, in all the thirteen colonies except for one, the governor did not defect to the Patriot side and were forced into an exile. The exception was American-born Governor of Connecticut, Jonathan Trumbull. But this is a settler colony, in whom the governor was born and a native of, we are talking about. A colonial governor, who is almost certainly not born in India and not of any subject native population, in EIC is highly unlikely to make a common cause with the natives.

The only outcome you would see as a result of high liberty desire is a civil war from the subject populations in EIC's territories that seeks to both overthrow the company rule *and* to declare independence from the company's overlord. Of course, India being diverse as they are, as we have seen in the historical Sepoy Rebellion, not everyone in India will agree to overthrow and independence, especially if it means being ruled by a group whom they despised. A classic case of divide-and-conquer here.
 
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A nifty cheat sheet to remind you of the effects of different subject types and compare between them has been added to the Subjects tab UI,

you can now impose laws on your subjects directly from the Subjects tab.

Did you miss introducing the new subject tab functionality?

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Please Devs consider giving the EIC and the Dutch Company a different treatment with like -100% permanent liberty desire. I dont want to see shenanningans in which half of the games they declare independence because they clearly more powerful economically.
Maybe the devs could take advantage of the fact that EIC and Dutch Company are kind of doomed if their overlord let them go. I mean by that the elites Will be toppled by the natives. A very easy way to break the Dutch company is to make them independant in a war against the Netherlands. They shouldn't actively work for their own demise.
 
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If you cannot satisfy your subjects' unfulfilled Pop Needs, and even consume these consumptions to make the price higher, will your subjects gain more Economic Dependence?
 
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