Tinto Talks #6 - April 3rd, 2024

[kmarton815]

I hope the font is not final. The text font in the tooltips and other places (not the fonts on the map) which looks like Noto Sans to me. Something like the CKIII font would be more fitting to this game.

 

[mleczu]

I think that players playing paradox games, both current and future, are people who require a bit of an adult approach from games, a bit of seriousness and realism in the world presented. The graphic design/UI takes away a lot of immersion and doesn't really suit me. While there is time, think about it seriously, the colors and arrangement of the panels should be much more subdued and serious

 

[tommassi]

The power struggle between cities, dukes and kings/emperor is however a very important aspect of the history in that region around the 14th century, resulting in the Burgundian stuff from eu4.

So even neglecting that a few of them would soon be among the most populous European cities at the time, terminology matters for flavour.

If you mean free cities in the HRE... I'd say none of then qualify as cities.

 

[Snake Pliskin]

Is it possible to raid coasts and cities to enslave pops to bring them to our nation?

 

[Thorum]

If you mean free cities in the HRE... I'd say none of then qualify as cities.

I agree (at least for most/all of the 1444 free cities), my post was in reply to a post about Flanders and Brabant and specifically about that region.

 

[KAKnyght]

Not sure what the system for this will be, but will some locations still have “cores” for countries/organizations that were destroyed that can be recreate like the Templars or the Assassins? Mentioning those two over more obvious nations because I don’t think those have ever been playable in something post Crusader Kings without a converter of sorts.

Related question, I know modders have made ones before but for the people who like the “Paradox Megacampaigns” will there be an inhouse converter from CK3 or to Victoria 3?

 

[tommassi]

I agree (at least for most/all of the 1444 free cities), my post was in reply to a post about Flanders and Brabant and specifically about that region.

None of then would qualify as cities either. Their population explosion came after 1337. And if modelled properly, It would actually make for a very interesting play.

PS.- If it's measured only by population, I mean, obviously. Brugge has like 20k population, for context.

 

[Daglahan]

Hi Johan,
I'm extremely hyped about this new project, and i'm sure we all are here. I just have a suggestion/request about a feature I wished was in CKIII or EUIV so much! :
Could you add terrain changes?
For exemple, deforesting a place to make it a plain, and then making this plan into farmland! Drying marshes! I often talked about those with fellow paradox player and they often answered me that it wasn't accurate due to the time period, since in many people's head deforestation and large scale terraforming is a recent thing.
But it's wrong!
Some exemples:

• In the netherlands, land started being reclaimed from the sea as far as the XIVth century!
• In south-eastern France, the marshlands around Bordeaux were drained starting from the XVth century!
• The english Fens were drained in the XVII century.
• Eu
  
  rope knew large scale deforestation during the middle ages (image from a french history school textbook)

That's it, I hope you found my proposition constructive (even if other people probably already proposed it) and that you have a wonderful day!

 

[MfgLuckbot]

Does control scale with population in an way? Like, I feel it should be easier to control a 1,000 people tradepost than a 100,000 people state in china given the same distance from your capital

 

[Hopolit]

@Johan I have a question on the levies/manpower that we could see in the locations. Will this work in a way like the cohorts from Imperator? As in we start with a small force of professionals, like a royal force, that uses a small manpower pool and this force is bolstered by levies and mercenaries. And will the proportion of levies to manpower shift as we tech and move to a more professional military? Would be cool if levies changed to conscripts later in the game.
Love the look and I'm looking forward to the announcements of the game that we all can guess that you are working on.

 

[Awesomealan1]

With maritime presence existing, can we expect some juicy piracy mechanics take place? or just something related to plundering trade and something like that?

Imagine if you had a spy network high enough, you could send pirates to try and plunder trade in relation to specific trade goods (in-universe, figuring out which ships are handling which goods, or even having spies on said ships) and you could receive a bonus to that specific good if you so wanted. An example of such being, gold being transported from the new world.

 

[-IMJ-]

Will the northernmost regions of Scandinavia get some love? E.g. will there be any cultural differences of their own since they are so far from the capitals? Are fortresses / church sites such as Trondenes, Tromsø and Vardø examples of places that control autonomy? Will there be a separate system for the Sami people and their migratory pattern (historically they were taxed from several countries at the same time)?

In general, what kind of flavour have you planes for the mysterious north?

 

[Ololorium]

2. I see that on one of the screens there's a levy size modifier. Eh, if it means that we're gonna have levies, like in CK/I:R, then it's really a bummer. I don't like the mechanic - like, at all. Again, it forces the player to deal with busywork of constantly raising and disbanding armies, then waste huge amounts of time to get them moved to wherever they need to be, rinse and repeat. While in CK games it's kind of less of a pain, since they are not inherently map-painters, but in I:R it's really bothersome - again, especially when I have a large empire that even with the road network it takes years for my armies to move to the area I want to expand into. I don't see the point, and the argument of 'realism' is something I don't agree with

This game is not a "map painter", though. Nothing in the dev diaries point to blobbing and warfare as the main point of the game. This very dev diary tells about a feature that would make the player think twice before grabbing another bit of territory.
CK comparison is pretty spot on: using levies is one of many ways to interact with your vassal characters, which is the point of the game, and in Project Ceasar using levies is one of many ways to interact with your Estates, which is the point of the game, from what I understand.

 

[dito464]

There are 2 rigas? Why are there 2 rigas lol

Welcome to the sixth Tinto Talks, where we talk about the design and features of our not yet announced game, with the codename ‘Project Caesar’.

Hey, before jumping into todays topic, I would like to show something very fresh out of the oven, based on your feedback last week. This is why we are doing these Tinto Talks, to make Project Caesar your game as much as ours...

View attachment 1110176



Today we will delve into three concepts that are rather new to our games, but first, we’ll talk about locations a bit more.

Not every location on the map is the same, especially not in a game of such scope as Project Caesar. By default, every ownable land location is a rural settlement, but there are two “upgrades” to it that can be done. First, you can find a town in a location, which allows you to increase the population capacity of the location and allows for a completely different set of buildings than a rural settlement. Finally, you can grant city rights to a town, which allows for even further advantages. Now you may wonder, why don’t I make every location into cities? Besides the cost and the population requirement, there is also the drawback that each of them tend to reduce your food production, while also adding more nobles, clergy and lots of burghers to your country.

Stockholm, Dublin and Belgrade are examples of towns at the start of the game, while cities include places like Beijing, Alexandria and Paris.

Here you can see the control that Sweden currently has.

Control
Every location that you own has a control value, which is primarily determined by the proximity it has to the capital, or another source of authority in your country. There are only a few things that can increase it above the proximity impact, but many things that can decrease it further.

This is probably the most important value you have, as it determines how much value you can get out of a location, as it directly impacts how much you can tax the population in that location, and the amount of levies they will contribute when called. A lack of control, reduces the crown power you gain from its population, while also reduces the potential manpower and sailors you can get, and weakens the market attraction of your own markets, making them likelier to belong to foreign markets if they have too low control.


View attachment 1110187

Proximity
So what is proximity? It is basically a distance to capital value, where traveling on the open sea is extremely costly. Proximity is costly over land, but along coastlines where you have a high maritime presence you can keep a high proximity much further. Tracing proximity along a major river reduces the proximity cost a fair bit, and if you build a road network that will further reduce the proximity costs.

There are buildings that you can build, like a Bailiff that will act as a smaller proximity source, but that has the slight drawback of adding more nobles to the location, and with a cost in food for them.

Maritime Presence
In every coastal location around your locations, or where you have special buildings, you have a maritime presence. This is slowly built up over time based on your ports and other buildings you have in adjacent locations. Placing a navy in the location helps improve it quicker, but blockades and pirates will decrease it quickly, making it absolutely vital to protect your coastlines in a war, or you’ll suffer the consequences for a long time.

As mentioned earlier, the maritime presence impacts the proximity calculations, but it also impacts the power of your merchants in the market the seazone is a part of.

Stay tuned, next week we’ll be doing an overview of the economy system, which has quite a lot of new features, as well as features from older games.

 

[Karalis123]

Hi Johan,
I'm extremely hyped about this new project, and i'm sure we all are here. I just have a suggestion/request about a feature I wished was in CKIII or EUIV so much! :
Could you add terrain changes?
For exemple, deforesting a place to make it a plain, and then making this plan into farmland! Drying marshes! I often talked about those with fellow paradox player and they often answered me that it wasn't accurate due to the time period, since in many people's head deforestation and large scale terraforming is a recent thing.
But it's wrong!
Some exemples:

• In the netherlands, land started being reclaimed from the sea as far as the XIVth century!
• In south-eastern France, the marshlands around Bordeaux were drained starting from the XVth century!
• The english Fens were drained in the XVII century.
• EuView attachment 1110739rope knew large scale deforestation during the middle ages (image from a french history school textbook)

That's it, I hope you found my proposition constructive (even if other people probably already proposed it) and that you have a wonderful day!

Yeah also Sardinia has seen a deforestation process since Roman times that became much larger with the Spaniard rule since the XV century (even if it became much more extreme in the 800’ with the Piedmonteses)

 

[Karalis123]

Does control scale with population in an way? Like, I feel it should be easier to control a 1,000 people tradepost than a 100,000 people state in china given the same distance from your capital

I think a mechanic to represent this can be a malus to Control when the population exceeds the capacity in a location

 

[humbleacadie]

If I occupy enemy's Capital, would that influence enemy's proximity and control of their provinces? And also would there be a concept of capitulation- where I occupy enemy's capital and get 100% war score? ( It would be historically correct and strategically interesting in game ).

During the 100 years war, Paris got occupied by the English, yet the war dragged on.
I believe it would be too unbalanced to give 100% for some nations.
However, if warscore is tied to population (big cities should be worth more than tiny villages) and if there is a 10/20% multiplier for capitals, it could work

 

[Vlad123]

During the 100 years war, Paris got occupied by the English, yet the war dragged on.
I believe it would be too unbalanced to give 100% for some nations.
However, if warscore is tied to population (big cities should be worth more than tiny villages) and if there is a 10/20% multiplier for capitals, it could work

Well for not much...i want remember the 100 years war was essentially, initially a looting war, only after the english understand they can REALLY beat the french!

 

[azope]

some question ( i hope my bad english would be understandable )


So if i understant well if a location have a 100% control that control is divided betwen the crown control and the OTHER control
that mean a low control location would give a high level of levy so incresse the control decreass the local rule and decreass the cntrol increass the local rule i am right ?

if the previous is true who will have the levie in the end ? like a city with low control will have levie give to the burger ?

If i am a poor in a city will i am be a burger or commoner ?

if i am a local noble and a foreign contry take the land will i stay a local noble with a new king ? will i am become a comoner ? will it depent of what both king decide ? for exemple my new king could say you could keep your land so i would be more likely to satya but my old king say if you do so i would brand you as treator ( that mean i would be less likely to so but if i do i would not want go back to my old kingdom and defend more my new one ) or in the oposide my new king could take part of my land and give to new noble so angry me and my old king say you are still the local ruler and other combinaison

Second why not create the buraucrate estate ? because it prety much what it is the crown power and you could add state reform like enuque in china that would make the buraucrate enuque or sell buraucrate possition that would made burger the main source of buraucrate or make the buraucrate heriditaire that would make the buraucrate as noble maybe even other think that i don't know

 

[kristian444]

I love the idea that a big country like Ming (if it appears) will have to empower nobles and/or eunuchs (if they appear) in order to control all their land, which will make those estates powerful and therefore pursue their own interests, e.g. "don't bother conquering more land and instead extract all the wealth from the land we've got", which acts as a natural brake to snowballing and makes the world much more realistic. It's been the cause of death, decline and/or stagnation of many a large empire over the years, and it's much neater than just adding an arbitrary mechanic to artificially slow things down - it's part of the world instead.