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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #115 - Graveyard of Empires

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Hello. This is Victoria, and today I will be covering the remainder of the Great Game-themed narrative content which is coming in Sphere of Influence and its accompanying update.

To avoid any confusion, I would like to clarify that none of the narrative content shown in this diary, nor the last diary, is gated behind the Great Game objective. The Great Game objective provides objective subgoals which grant points for certain journal entries and a score tracker which interfaces with much of this content for a more focused experience–it is not required to experience this content. All content within this diary, unless specified otherwise, is available both in sandbox mode or during the course of any objective.

Afghanistan

Afghanistan in 1836 is far from a united land. The slow collapse of the Durrani Empire has left it in a state of civil war for decades, with the primary claimants to the throne forming fiefdoms centred in Herat, Kabul, and Kandahar. In addition to this unfortunate internal situation, the Afghan states find themselves menaced by Persia’s expansionist ambitions from the West, the encroaching British East India Company from the East, and Russian influence from the North.

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All Afghan states start with the Afghan Reunification Journal Entry active. Whilst the primary contenders for reunifying Afghanistan are Herat, Kandahar, and Kabul, the minor khanates of Maimana and Kunduz also have this available, allowing for the formation of an Afghanistan under an Uzbek Khan.

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This journal entry allows all Afghan contenders to appeal to either Russia or Britain for military and diplomatic support in reunifying Afghanistan. If the relevant Great Power approves the contender’s request, they will be more inclined to support said contenders in diplomatic plays, and the contender will receive military bonuses in return for an obligation.

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Once unified, a freshly formed Afghanistan may choose to either pursue additional claims on Pashtun and Tajik homelands, at the cost of infamy, or stop its expansion whilst it’s ahead.

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Afghanistan’s unification content will be available to all players in the free update accompanying the release of Sphere of Influence.

Persia

Persia in 1836 is a country swelling with expansionist ambitions. The newly enthroned Mohammad Shah has consolidated his power, and wishes to annex the Principality of Herat as part of a grand ambition that would unify the Persian-speaking populace of Afghanistan with Persia and extend Persian influence throughout Central Asia.

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In Sphere of Influence, these expansionist ambitions are represented through the Eastern Frontier Journal Entry. This journal entry provides the tools needed to realise Persia’s expansionist interests, with buttons for approaching either Russia or Britain, as well as gaining claims on the remainder of Central Asia under certain conditions..

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If Persia occupies Herat, Britain will be warned, and will have the opportunity to demand that Persia withdraw from the region. If Britain sends the demand and Persia chooses to back down, this will represent a major humiliation setback in its expansionist ambitions. If Persia refuses to back down, Britain will become much more hostile towards Persia, and represent a major impediment to its future efforts.

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While expanding North and East, Persia will encounter the massive slave markets of Turkmenia and Uzbekistan, and be faced with the need to either free the slaves or allow them to remain in captivity.

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Additionally, Persia will have the opportunity to restore the great city of Merv, formerly one of the largest cities in the world before its desolation by Tolui Khan.

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If Persia is successfully able to complete this Journal Entry, it is almost certain to become a major power in its own right–one that may be able to become recognised, expel both Russia and Britain from Central Asia, and force an end to the Great Game.

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The above content for Persia is available for all owners of the Sphere of Influence expansion pack.

Korea

Korea, despite being far from Central Asia, was not untouched by the Great Game. In the mid-to-late nineteenth century, it began feeling the effects of European influence, causing unrest among the intellectual class and the peasantry. The philosophy of Donghak, or Eastern Learning, was intended to present a path to establishing a democratic and egalitarian society in Korea whilst simultaneously refusing encroachment by foreign powers.

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To represent Korea’s isolation from the world during this period of the Joseon Dynasty, Korea has been given the Isolationism law at game start. Once this law is replaced by a different trade law, a sufficient degree of turmoil builds up, and the effects of foreign influence begin to be felt in Korea, a new journal entry will appear. The Donghak Movement journal entry represents the hybrid religious-political peasant movements that occurred in Korea around the late 19th century. Whilst it is active, revolutions involving the Rural Folk will be greatly strengthened.

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There are two paths to removing the threat of a peasant rebellion–reducing the amount of radicals in Korea to a manageable level, or completing the demands that the movement offers the government. Whilst the Donghak movement is active, they may issue a petition to the government, demanding that Korea go back into isolation, permit religious tolerance, and reduce the power of the Yangban. Accepting the petition will please the Rural Folk and decrease the threat of imminent revolution, but failing to meet its demands within the time allotted will make the situation endlessly worse.

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If a movement involving the Rural Folk becomes revolutionary, the Journal Entry will fail, and massively escalate both the radicalism of the movement and the progress of the revolution. What would formerly have been mere civil unrest will transform into a near-guaranteed civil war–one which could run the risk of a foreign intervention which would be disastrous for Korea.

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If Korea has a civil war whilst a subject of China, China will be inclined to come to the defence of its loyal government–but a modernised Japan may also be inclined to intervene, and be much less predictable in its allegiance.

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As a bonus, Korea has also had several events pertaining to the Joseon monarchy added, allowing for the appearance of characters such as Gojong and the Empress Myeongseong.

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This content for Korea is available for all players who own the Sphere of Influence expansion pack.

The Caucasus

In Sphere of Influence, both of Russia’s opponents in the Caucasian War–Circassia and the Caucasian Imamate–receive journal entries to represent their role in the conflict. In the case of Circassia, this journal entry is completed by expelling the Russians from Kuban and achieving the borders claimed by the Circassian parliament.

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Upon either the expiration of the truce between Circassia and Russia–or Russia’s escalation of the war using its Caucasian War journal entry–Circassia receives an event representing the historical Parliament of Independence in 1861. This event offers the opportunity to either focus on modernising the military in preparation for a Russian invasion, or appealing to foreign powers for recognition and support.

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Foreign powers with an interest in the Caucasus region will receive the option to offer recognition to Circassia upon the conclusion of its war with Russia, as well as becoming more inclined to support it in a defensive war.

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The Caucasian Imamate has also received a journal entry covering its struggle for independence. Its attached modifier grants the Imamate benefits in terms of morale and defence on states it owns.

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Once Circassia’s starting leaders have died, the Imamate may use this journal entry to dispatch a leader to Circassia, fostering a formal alliance between both states.

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If the Imamate and Circassia reverse the course of their wars and expel Russian influence from the North Caucasus, the Russian government will no longer have the ability to exert influence within the region. It will be forced to either try to maintain its administration through a storm of radicalism, or pull out from the region. Depending on the social technologies that Russia has unlocked, the collapse of the Caucasus may take the form of the restoration of some of its traditional kingdoms, the appearance of modern nation-states, or the establishment of a unified Transcaucasia.

Pictured: The third option is unlocked by the Nationalism technology, and the fourth by Pan-Nationalism.
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Pictured: The result of the first option.

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Content for the Caucasian Imamate and Circassia is available to those who own the Sphere of Influence expansion pack.

Earning Recognition

The “Earning Recognition” Journal Entry permits an unrecognised major power to work towards the status of recognised nation. This journal entry replaces the currently existing Force Recognition wargoal–whilst defeating the Great Powers in wars still benefits an unrecognised nation immensely, it is not a one-and-done path to being regarded as an equal.

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Conditions which benefit the cause of recognition include defeating Great or Major powers in wars, having high vital statistics such as GDP per capita, standard of living, and literacy, enacting voting rights, and using the new Request Embassy diplomatic action on Great Powers.

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The Request Embassy Diplomatic Action is unique to this journal entry, and permits for requesting embassies in Great Powers. Each Great Power that is willing to accept an embassy will raise the progress towards Recognised status by 10%.

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Conditions which harm the cause of recognition include having poor vital economic indicators, being defeated in a war, and having certain regressive laws that demonstrate one’s nation to be an unreliable business partner.

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Earning Recognition will be available to all players as a part of the free update 1.7.

And that is all. Thank you for reading. Next week, Max will cover the new art of Sphere of Influence.
 
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That's much better, thanks for the clarification. On other point, how many of the criteria needs to be filled for this journal entry to succeed? I think some of them like literacy requirement should be removed as it's too much of a first order variable. A certain level of literacy will be required anyway for higher SoL and GDP per capita so it shouldn't be counting towards recognition by itself. I would generally say things that are important for hard power such as military and navy should be much more relevant than things like SoL as well.
The best answer to this is "more positive than negative conditions, over a long enough period of time". Each positive condition advances the bar slightly, each negative condition makes it retreat. This balances to either a negative, positive, or neutral drift. Once the bar is full and the requirement to have sufficient relations with a Great Power satisfied, the Journal Entry is completed.
 
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I think Egypt is an important example specifically because its colonization was different to other nations we saw: again, contrast this with Benin, the opposite side of the spectrum.

By the time Egypt became a protectorate, it was in a decades-long decline, and solicited foreign support to put down a major mutiny. That's no different than in-game examples where the Netherlands agrees to become a Prussian puppet to put down a revolution. The Khedive maintained his authority over Egypt, albeit with much more British influence to be sure, and the British did not directly administer Egypt.

I mean none of those things happened because of any respect, Khedive themselves hardly respected the local Egyptian Arab population as Mehmed Ali Pasha famously stated that he is doing nothing different than what British is doing in India and he completely barred Fellahin Arabs from raising through ranks in either military or bureaucracy.

It happened because Egypt was quite populous and it was better them to creep in a status quo of economic dominance and secure Suez canal without having to use too much military, there was nothing in the relations that could be considered equal at any level since Egypt became completely under British economic domination and the treaties were very much unequal.
 
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Persia wasn't even being treated with equal treaties by British in 20th century when it had a democratic government, it is slightly out of game's timeframe but Britain very explicitly overthrew Iran's democratic government because of nationalization of oil. So the idea that they would be treated more equally if they had become democracies is just patently absurd.
What? Do you think recognition means that great powers won't participate in the overthrow of your government? Are you entirely unaware of the history of Latin America?
 
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Feedback on the Dev Diary
This looks like really interesting content. I would never have considered playing Afghanistani tags without this. I disagree with those players who want generic mechanics rather than tag-specific content. I think there's a place for both, and this is a good use of Content Designers' time, while the programmers are working on Foreign Investment (which should be the top priority IMHO).

But I am most excited by two 'meta' things.

Firstly, thank you for clarifying that this content isn't locked behind the Great Game objective. Last week's DD gave me the impression that it would be, which I thought was unfortunate. Nice to see it's just a misunderstanding.

Secondly, I am pleased to see that events are tagged with the DLC that they came from. I know this is not a new feature in this patch, but it makes this DD easier to understand (since we can see what is patch and what is DLC) and will help players to see that they are getting value for their DLC, as well as directing feedback to PDX or modders as appropriate. I hope to see this in all PDX games in future.

The Recognition Debate
Although it seems to be an unpopular view, I think that @Froonk is right to at least question whether internal prosperity was enough to secure recognition from European Great Powers in this era. We know that the vast majority of their leaderships were openly racist, so it wouldn't be surprising if this affected their diplomacy. I am still uncertain though as to what the actual standard was and how best to represent that Victorian reality in the game.

The V3 wiki says that "[r]ecognition represents whether the reigning (mostly European) great powers see the country as a potential equal on the world stage." The word "potential" is obviously very important there: the game's concept of recognition does not imply equality. Since it's a wiki we can't be totally certain that this is the standard the devs are using; I don't have the game to hand right now, so if anyone could post the Vickypedia/tooltip definition, that would be helpful.

In the hope of adding light rather than heat to the debate, here are the dates when the UK recognized the countries discussed in this dev diary (at Ministerial level unless stated):
  • Afghanistan: 1921, 1948 Ambassador
  • Iran: 1807, 1943 Ambassador
  • Japan: 1859, 1905 Ambassador
  • Korea: 1884 non-resident Minister in Peking and Consul-General in Seoul, 1901 resident Minister (until 1905, limited relations until 1910), 1949 Minister, 1957 Ambassador
  • Russia: 1788, 1860 Ambassador
Most of the Afghan and Caucasian tags are not listed here because they never achieved recognition. The temptation is to look at this (especially Japan in 1905) and say that Ambassadorial status indicates full recognition as an equal, but here are China and some European/white tags as comparators:
  • Argentina: 1826 Charge d'Affairs, 1856 Minister, 1927 Ambassador
  • China: 1842 "High Officer", 1859 Minister, 1933 Ambassador
  • Belgium: 1836, 1920 Ambassador
  • Denmark: 1783, 1947 Ambassador
  • USA: 1791, 1893 Ambassador
Note that Denmark didn't get an Ambassador until 1947, even though it was a European monarchy and a white colonial power in its own right, so I think Ambassadorial status is a bit of a red herring. You just need to reset your mind and accept that until the Second World War, diplomatic relations were a ranked system, not the binary of recognized+equal vs unrecognized that generally exists today; V3's system of Great Powers, Major Powers, and Minor Powers reflects this well. The mechanic in this Dev Diary is about Recognition, not rank.

And it clearly was possible for non-European states to get recognition early in the V3 era. You can argue for either 1842 or 1859 as the date when Qing China achieved full recognition, but that's still early in the game. It's important to acknowledge that the recognition of China, Japan, and Korea all took place by 'Unequal Treaties', but unequal recognition still counts. And we know that none of those East Asian countries had defeated a Great Power to achieve this status, nor had Iran, so the fact that this is currently (1.6.x) the only way to achieve in-game recognition might not be quite right. But none of them had granted voting rights to their population either; in fact all of them were a long way from being liberal. So while the new mechanic in 1.7 is an improvement, I can see why @Froonk is questioning it.

I guess we need to understand why it was that in 1859 the UK recognized Iran and Korea but not the Herat Khanate. My suspicion is that it's along the lines of "too big to swallow", but I'm not certain. I'm a slow thinker so I need to touch grass first!
 
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United sates was not making treaties with Japan as nominal equals in Treaty of Portsmouth! The supposed treaty that has Japan as a recognized power (or even before). Europeans definitely thought they couldn't enforce unequal treaties on Japan but that was because it had became a powerful country.
You're clearly missing the treaty that the event is literally named after that was signed two decades before the Russo-Japanese War, and is a bilateral treaty where the Japanese were treated as nominal equals to a Great Power.
 
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What? Do you think recognition means that great powers won't participate in the overthrow of your government? Are you entirely unaware of the history of Latin America?

I am referring specifically to the unequal treaties such as the British control of Persian oil rather than specifically overthrowing the government. In my view the democracy is somewhat superfluous and doesn't matter which is why undemocratic nations were plenty "Recognized" in how they were dealt with treaties, laws and international politics. Recognition should really be either by precedent, in which most of Western states would be recognized including Latin America, and any state beginning unrecognized would have to force their way in with undeniable hard power that makes enforcing unequal treaties on them untenable. After which there can be justifications and rationalizations for why they are recognized in cultural terms but those are exactly that and shouldn't matter for the game mechanics regarding recognition in subject types and infamy.

However since it was kindly stated you have to be a Major power to qualify for these in the first place, I am more willing to see it working though I would definitely prefer things like military power and naval power being counted instead of literacy and SoL.
 
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I am referring specifically to the unequal treaties such as the British control of Persian oil rather than specifically overthrowing the government.
The closest analogue to those treaties is Honduras and their dealings with American fruit companies. Notably, Honduras: a recognized country.

Foreign aggression and domination is not precluded by recognition. The only thing that recognition gets you is being dealt with as a nominal equal, and not a "backwards tribe". Recognition is all about when you start getting treated as a "real state", and sometimes "real states" get conquered or forced into subservience.
 
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Earning Recognition and Request Embassy will be available for all countries in the game (not only Central Asian states)?
 
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This is a great region and it all looks good. Just one thing to keep in mind while working on the afghanistan region is that afghanistan is not a religious monolith at this time. In 1836 there were 10s of thousands of Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, and even some Buddhists communities.
Afghanistan was a very diverse crossroads but is currently depicted at 100% muslim.
 
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Japan's case is especially telling here, it was definitely in the top 20 in GDP per capita and most likely had close if not above 40% literacy already before Meiji restoration and it certainly had those after Meiji restoration yet it took them beating Russia in a war to be seriously considered as a player in international politics. This again is the only real case in this era of anything similar happening in this period.
So you agree that having a high GDP per capita and high literacy were both contributing factors to Japan gaining what in the game is called recognition, as the new recognition journal entry lays out. What are you complaining about again?
 
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We have a task on our plate to re-evaluate and find another fitting country for the tutorial.
Do you have any good suggestions? :D
Siam/Dai Nam were the countries I found it best to learn the game with. They're relatively large unrecognized powers with a mix of all types of government nearby to interact with, with lots of backwards laws to resolve. This seems similar to the niche Persia fills today.

Alternatively, maybe a protectorate would be a good option to learn other new dynamics introduced in 1.7? Cape Colony could work well in that case.
 
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Foreign aggression and domination is not precluded by recognition. The only thing that recognition gets you is being dealt with as a nominal equal, and not a "backwards tribe". Recognition is all about when you start getting treated as a "real state", and sometimes "real states" get conquered or forced into subservience.

I agree. However we are specifically talking about unrecognized states becoming recognized. If states which were recognized as real states could be forced into subservience because they were weak, the states which were not recognized as real states in the first place had even harder time being recognized unless that position became untenable when the said state could no longer be forced into subservience. That's what happened with Japan in 1894 (or 1905).

Logic order isn't that recognized states can't be under domination thus states which can be subservient should be unrecognized, rather it's that unrecognized states which could be forced into subservience should not be able to become recognized without making the coercion untenable. Especially in light of imperialist structure of the era which was also explicitly racist in how it formulated the colonialism taking place at the time.
 
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Which didn't work since France demanded territory from them which became part of French Indochina without any outrage on any of Great Power's part.
Because in game terms, Siam tried to get Britain to join their diplomatic play and Britain was swayed otherwise. Do you think recognition means Europe will completely leave you alone and never launch diplomatic plays against you? Because that is completely misunderstanding what recognition means.
 
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So you agree that having a high GDP per capita and high literacy were both contributing factors to Japan gaining what in the game is called recognition, as the new recognition journal entry lays out. What are you complaining about again?

They were contributing factors in the sense it allowed Japan to exert power at global stage and make it untenable for Western powers to force unequal treaties on them. They certainly weren't recognized on the basis of having high GDP per capita and high literacy in relative terms, as if that was the case they would not be under any unequal treaties since Japan already had that by 1836 and all unequal treaties were signed after that.

Because in game terms, Siam tried to get Britain to join their diplomatic play and Britain was swayed otherwise. Do you think recognition means Europe will completely leave you alone and never launch diplomatic plays against you? Because that is completely misunderstanding what recognition means.

Recognition in game terms adjusts subject types and infamy modifiers. It costs a lot more infamy to take states from recognized powers (though probably not enough) and it takes less to take them from unrecognized powers (though still too much).

There was absolutely no opposition from great powers to a potential colonization of Siam by France and Britain, they just happened to not agree on the details due to position of Siam between British India and French Indochina.

In my perception, recognition is about whether a country can be colonized (directly or indirectly) without that colonization being considered illegitimate.
 
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Earning recognition as a global mechanic : good.

Journal entries / mission trees / focuses : bad.

At least there are the other content SoI promises.
 
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Considering that there might be a potential East Asian flavor pack, and Korea actually has not many things to do with Central Asia struggle, I suggest to make Korean contents available to all players — or you might have to do much more version-check things in the future.
I’d like to reassert myself: the Donghak Movement is highly related to the Korean-Japanese relation, which is a part within the reorganization of the East Asian order. Please forgive my being direct, but it would be weird to pick up this isolatedly.

So I guess, the real reason is that you guys have decided to create some flavors for Korea - I support this - but the specific content designing is not that suitable.
 
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Can other countries take the role of England if, for example, another country takes over the East India Company or the region?