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Tinto Talks #13 - 22nd of May 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, where we give out top-secret information about our upcoming unannounced game with the code name Project Caesar. This time we will touch a little bit on the aspect of religion in this game.

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Every country, pop, or character has a religion they adhere to. This impacts their relationship with the place they currently are, and their relationship with others in the world.


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This is the religious setup of Aragon in 1337.

Every religion in Project Caesar belongs to a Religion Group, such as Christianity or Paganism. Fellow religions in the same group consider each other to be merely Heretic, whereas religions in different groups condemn each other as Heathen.

Every religion has a specific view of other religions as well, that ranges from Kindred to Enemy, which impacts relations between countries of different faiths, and how populations of another faith view your country.

Each country also has their own tolerance of their true faith, of heretics, and of heathens, which impacts how happy or angry the population will be depending on which country they belong to.


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The Same Religion here, is from the law relating to valid heirs.

The religious unity of your country has a really large impact on the satisfaction of your Clergy Estate.

Important to know is that in Project Caesar, you just do not send missionaries to your locations and eventually they have changed religion. Here conversion is a slower process, which relies on government activities and infrastructure.


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A unique building for Muslim countries that has a tiny impact on conversion.

Each religion belongs to a group, which impacts which tolerance is applied and how religions interact with each other. Religions in the same group are viewed as heretics, but those of another group as heathens.

The groups we currently have are, but that may change as we continue to develop the game.
  • Christian
  • Muslim
  • Eastern
  • Dharmic
  • Zoroastrian
  • Manichean
  • Judean
  • Andean
  • Pagan

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The current Christian religions. Take into account that they are very much WIP!

In some games we have made there have not been any major differences between religions, merely being different modifiers, and while some religions in Project Caesar are still only a few modifiers, many will have mechanics. Right now, we have made unique mechanics for Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Miaphysitism, the various Protestants, Muslims, Buddhists, Shinto, Nahuatl, Hinduism & the Inti religion. Each of these will get their own unique later development diary.

Now every religion will still have some modifiers that describe them, in many cases it is things that enable or disable certain mechanics. Some examples include the fact that countries with Jain as their state religion can not start wars without a casus belli, and that Calvinist countries will never reroll the dice in a battle, as everything is preordained.

Stay tuned for next week, where we talk about another completely new feature that adds flavor to the game.

Sadly, I can’t reply today, as I am at some management thingie in Stockholm, but @Pavía will help you out!
 
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I've created a new thread to discuss the issue of how to represent religion in East Asia.
 
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Regarding the religious conversion and/or tolerance, will we have some sort of flavor decisions or decrees that can affect said conversion or tolerance? Like the Alhambra decree or the Statute of Kalisz?
 
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That should probably be reversed. Historically, "Shinto" never really existed in its modern context before the era of Kokugaku scholarship in the Edo Period. Before that, Shinto as a concept was not a thing anyone would have recognized. Kami Worship was varied from place to place. Village to village even, it was highly decentralized outside of the Imperial Cult. Buddhism was dominant in Japan until after World War 2. Shinto Shrines were inside of Buddhist temples most of the time, and as well Buddhist sects and Monasteries were landholding elites with levy armies of their own and contributed heavily to the power politics of Japan. For as many powerful Shugo, Clans, and other various forms of Warlords as there were there were just as many Temples and Sects that held wide swathes of land themselves.

Please reconsider this. I believe the best way to handle it would to have Mahayana be the dominant religion in Japan with "Kami Worship" as a minority faith. That would be the most historically authentic. Shinto is just a fantasy faith in this time period, even as an umbrella term for Kami Worship, Kami Worship was still less influential than Buddhism. Buddhism was hugely connected to politics in Japan, Kami Worship was not after Buddhism took over.

I really want to see a Japan that has the landholding Buddhist sects represented. I'd love to see a map tag that can spawn for Ishiyama Honganji for example or other such regional powerholding Temples. Even an Osaka tag if possible as a spawnable republic vassal.
The best way would be to have Buddhism as the "main religion" and, more accurately called, "Japanese animism" (kamiism?) be a syncretic secondary. You could perhaps "convert" this animism to a proper organized Shinto religion via decisions and a lot of wrangling if the conditions are ripe
 
You may have noticed that North Africa, the Middle East, and Central Asia don't have stripes. That's because we haven't added the minorities there yet, which will be an extremely fun task for one of our content designers for this summer.
"one" of our content designers? You mean you have a single unlucky lad who has a summer to dig up obscure sources about the religous makeup of everything from Morocco to Samarkand? :p
 
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As others have already pointed out, that Calvinism modifier looks incredibly gamey and ahistorical. Theological determinism and predestination don't at all entail that humans should never change their behavior, be it in battle or elsewhere, but rather that whatever decisions they do make were ultimately determined by God. Besides it being historically inaccurate, this battle mechanic could be very frustrating to both play against and play as. Imagine you're playing Calvinist Netherlands and you're at war with Catholic France, your armies engage in battle and your first roll of the dice is a 1, and you're now stuck with that roll for the rest of the battle. Now imagine that you're France and the enemy's first roll is a 9, and that's what they'll have for the rest of the engagement. It doesn't sound very fun for either side.

As a suggestion, a much better way to represent Calvinist predestination within the game could be as a determining factor regarding your relationship with other Christian (particularly protestant) denominations. Much of the Reformation was defined by the internal debate, both within Catholic and Protestant countries, regarding the meaning and extent of this doctrine. So Calvinist countries could get a "Synod of Dort" event/mechanic and, depending on how radically predestinatarian you lean in that Synod, it could affect your relationship/tolerance with more moderate protestants such as Lutherans or (if they were to make it into the game) Arminians.

The rest of the Dev Diary looks very promising, though. It's just this one issue which I think should be revised.
 
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Please fix Brazil map. there are wastelands where there were cities during the colonial ageView attachment 1137218
For tropical locations I'm against having wastelands at all - just highly undeveloped and as a result impassable areas. I mean ffs the Portuguese recorded that the entire Amazon was basically a giant wooden megalopolis when they passed by and accidentally gave everyone infinity diseases - definitely shouldn't be a wasteland. Same for the Congo area in Africa.
 
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Just noticed how massive the wasteland is in the middle of central Africa, I get it's the Great African Rainforest but it seems a bit extreme still. The entire modern nation of the Central African Republic being an unhospitable, impassable region seems a bit strange.
 
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Hinduism, Jainism and Sikhism, as Buddhism is considered 'Eastern', correct. We don't like much that 'Heathen' division between Hinduism and Buddhism either, so we're looking for a better solution, although it's complicated.

I see there are at least three tiers as of now: Kindred, Negative, Enemy. Could there be a Positive/Neutral tier used for such cases?
 
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I can see some Romuva/Baltic Pagan remnants in East Prussia (current Kaliningrad Oblast). It's a nice touch.

Old Prussians were conquered by Teutonic Order in 1200s, but their culture survived at least until late 1600s in remote regions. So it makes sense that some of them still practiced their old religion in 1337, despite forced Christianization and oppression.

I hope that Lithuania will have some missions/decisions/events about liberating them from their Teutonic opressors and their Ostsiedlung.
 
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Hey why does Malappuram in Kerala, India has a Muslim majority location , yes nowadays Malappuram is majority Muslim but it definitely wasn't in 14th century, the modern muslim majority is mainly due Tipu's invasion in late 18th century as a result many Christians and Hindus of northern Kerala migrated south and central kerala and another reason is birth rate among Muslims in 20th century was really high so definitely it wasn't an Muslim majority area in 1300s .

Also why is Nilgiris areas of south India wasteland it was inhabited by 4 tribes Todas , kotas , irulas and kurumbas and you can find a lot of information about Todas but others are not that well recorded.
 
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