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Tinto Talks #14 - 29th of May 2024

Welcome everyone to where we talk about our completely secret, not yet announced game. In today's Tinto Talks we will delve into a completely new feature.

A small reminder, this is very much a WiP, and nothing is final.

The core of this system was one of the first things I designed back in the spring of 2020, a feature that could be described as both a narrative and mechanical guide for the game. This is something that has been inspired by the Incident System from EU4, and also by the International Crisis mechanic of Victoria 2, but it is not really like any of those.

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Today is when we introduce our new Situation System.

So what is a “Situation” then? Good question. You could describe it as content that involves multiple countries over a period of time. In Project Caesar, we are using this feature to create a historical narrative that creates different experiences, as our goal is to have an immersive and varied experience for the player.

A Situation can have unique actions, events that trigger, and other types of unique content, and each of them will have its own UI and mapmode.

If a situation may involve or affect you, it will show with an alert, in the new color of purple!

Let's take a look at some of the situations we have in the game right now.

Black Death
This was the first situation we created, and it has been going through many revisions during the last four years.

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Black death can be 1346, random or off, and origin can be historical or random.

Usually, it will happen from 1346, as the Bubonic Plague appears somewhere in Central Asia and starts spreading through the old world, killing 40-60% of the population of the affected areas.

It spreads through adjacencies, moving armies, or through trade. There are ways you can attempt to alleviate this, but the efficiency of it is low, and the cost is high. You can try to isolate your court, expel the sick, blame minorities, and other very efficient ways to deal with the problem.

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Slowly spreading centrally, but some traders have already taken it into Italy...


Italian Wars
In the Age of Discovery, this is probably the most important situation for anyone in Western Europe. It is about control over Italy and will happen as soon as a French or Iberian Major Power or the Emperor declares war on an Italian Power.


There will be up to six different leagues that will fight over control of Italy. There is a French league, an Iberian league, the Emperor's league, and up to 3 Italian leagues. The first two will dynamically select their leaders based on strength calculations.

If one league gets hegemony over Italy, i.e. owning over 60% of the region either through conquest or diplomacy, then they will win. The Italians can also win by making sure the foreign leagues are destroyed through a special peace deal.

Leagues can be abandoned and anyone owning locations in Italy can join one of them.

The situation allows enemies and rivals of foreign league leaders to intervene and assist the defending Italians and it also grants access to unique interactions in order to send aid of any kind, attract cheaper condottieri and even create a new Italian league.

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This is how the situation would look if it fired in 1337 if Austria was to be the Holy Roman Emperor and Aragon was the dominant power in Iberia with vested interests in Italy.

Red Turban Rebellions
This is rather likely to happen as soon as the Yuan Empire ends up at low stability.

It will create an international organization called The Red Turbans, which will get a lot of rebel countries.

The situation can happen to Yuán after 1350 if their stability drops below 25 while also either of their estates is not satisfied. The requirements are harsh, but once you reach the Age of Discovery you have avoided the situation.

With that being said, the situation will most likely fire in a playthrough. During this period, the Red Turban Rebels will spawn as an international organization which is in direct opposition to the Huángdì, the Chinese emperor. While the situation is going on, events will pop up that force Yuán to release historical Chinese tags in their historical order (so the first Sòng is released, then Wú, then Tiānwán, etc.), which join the IO and immediately declare their own, independent war on Yuan.

Each rebel nation is playable when it spawns, and they can wage war with each other too.

The countries spawned during this situation have a custom loyalty value which describes how, well, loyal they are to Yuán which goes from -100 to 100 and grows or shrinks depending on their opinion of Yuán. Most rebel nations will start at -100 as they actively fought against Yuan. However, some nations spawned through the situation represent the Mongolian generals who gained a lot of autonomy, but were still fighting for Yuán’s cause. They would spawn with +50 Loyalty. If any rebel country reaches more than 0 loyalty, they will automatically leave the Red Turban Rebels IO.

In order to end the situation as Yuán, you have to regain internal stability, but also ensure that the Red Turban Rebels have no members left anymore after 20 years of the start of the situation. All states spawned through the situation with over 50 loyalty will then automatically be annexed by Yuán.

On the other hand, the situation also ends once any rebel tag owns the majority of China (around 70%) of all the locations there. If that happens the rebel tag which fulfills this requirement will assume the Imperial Throne and take over the tag of China.

The situation unlocks special diplomatic actions for Yuán and the rebels alike. Yuán can grant titles to any released state that is not at war with it, giving a significant loyalty and opinion boost in exchange for a hefty fee. They can also negotiate with local rebellions which decreases the process for a rebellion to break out and they can call loyalist countries (those with +50 loyalty) to their wars against the Red Turban Rebels. Meanwhile, the rebel states have a special cb against Yuan and other rebel states with a vastly reduced warscore cost for Chinese locations. They also get access to an action that allows them to rein in a conquered area, greatly reducing the local integration speed.

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Green are your loyal servants, orange are the rebels, red is the strongest of the rebels.

Other situations include things like the Western Schism, the Hundred Years War & Sengoku Jidai. We will talk more about those in future Tinto Talks.

If you have a suggestion of what you think would be an important historical event that should be a situation, then please post them here!

Next week though, we will talk about something that many people have asked for repeatedly.
 
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Can't say I'm pleased, but I choose to see the glass half full. Those situations could be a way to represent, as many said, succession wars and other more generic things happening.

As for how railroady they are, I understand that some events boiling from the start of the game are better represented through discrete mechanics. The black death is an ideal candidate, since very little could have been done to prevent it in 1336.

The Yuan collapse is yet another of those special Chinese mechanics that the normal mechanics of the game have trouble representing. I prefer to see it as a kind of Mandate failure, and would hope to see it more generalized than less. That way, the Ming could collapse in a similar way, and basically anyone ending up with the Mandate system. If done that way, there would already be more internal consistency than if it is a thing happening only once.

It also seems like France's Hundred Years War could work in a similar way, France's vassals being allowed to take a side in the succession war. This is something that could be extended to other succession wars, having vassals (and places with low control) switching sides as the war progresses.

Similarly, the Western Schism is a divide inside the catholic IO (or PS*, if we try to use some of those names in this thread), where people who pay the tithes have to choose a side, and Sengoky represents the struggle to control Japan...

Despite the "unique" mechanics and different names, to me those all seem to have common grounds in having the rupture of a previously more stable system. In that way, the german league wars, or the 30 years war, could be another extension of this, as you have the HRE IO/PS in crisis.

I have trouble, however, reconciling this model with the Italian leagues... Since they apparently involve fixed participants, and happen more than 100 years after the start of the game, they look extremely railroaded, and for no good reason. There is no local unit (like an italian kingdom) collapsing.

This could be modelled using standard diplomacy. What if, instead of collapsed Iberians, dominant hungarians were to try to encroach in Italy? This system wouldn't be able to represent this at all. I'm not sure either what the end state is supposed to be. What is even "winning" in that situation? My understanding was that in early Renaissance, (northern) Italy left the HRE and was ripe for the picking by various powers. Maybe the idea is that, if it resists successfully, the italian "league" could become something akin to the HRE, but in Italy, thus creating an IO/PS? Johan certainly said nothing of the sort, though.

So, if I have a question to ask to him, it would be : What happens if the Italians win in the Italian Wars?

*Political structure
 
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What? The Italian Wars happen in the 16th century, 200 years after the start of the game.

Technically started during the end of the 15th centrury...
 
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So it's not possible for the Italian Wars to trigger if, say, an italian power grows too strong?

if by "too strong" you mean "france, iberia or emperor don't dare declare war on any italian"
 
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"Each rebel nation is playable when it spawns, and they can wage war with each other too."

1. Will there be an interaction simmilar to "support rebels" in EU4?
2. If so, could a country set up a situation where support is set up to help rebels in a rival country similar to the italian war mechanics?
3. Scania releasable?
 
I think the Ottoman-Hungarian wars would make for a great situation as it was similar to the Italian wars during roughly the same timeframe - the HRE emperor, Hungary (and later independent Transylvania) with its Balkan friends and lackeys and the Ottomans, as well as Venice, Papal States and Poland supporting whichever of the three sides of the conflict.

It should trigger when the most powerful non-christian anatolian power takes more than 30% of the Balkans and end when either Hungary has lost more than half of it's land to the anatolian war leader or hre war leader, Hungary is the emperor of the hre or the anatolians control less than 40% of the balkans after 30 years.

Catholic powers get to send material support to Hungary, catholic powers adjacent to Hungary get to pick between Hungary and the HRE and there should be some mechanic the model that Hungary has to give up some of its autonomy and production gradually to secure this aid and to maintain the fortifications this brought about. One option could be for Hungary to tag switch to Transylvania and make the western part a PU of the emperor in exchange for merging their leagues.
Upon the end of the war, either Hungary is partitioned between the HRE and Ottomans or if the Ottomans are halted in the balkans, the slavic princes and kingdoms are restored.
 
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Could this be used to simulate the Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire? Considering it wasn't a standard war but a Spanish expedition sent from Cuba that involved a lot of other local polities like Tlaxcala and the Smallpox epidemic that decimated the native population.
 
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It is about control over Italy and will happen as soon as a French or Iberian Major Power or the Emperor declares war on an Italian Power.

1. Does that mean that if I play Hungary I can conquer Italy without triggering the situation?

2. How much a situation is different from normal conquest? Is it a feasible strategy to just wait for the situation to end and then go with conquering Italy by traditional means?

3. Can the situation repeat itself or is it a one-time event?
 
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Wait, why is the main image about the War of the roses if it isn't a Situation?
 
Are the situations applicable to other major European conflicts, such as the Seven Years' War or the Northern War (1700-1721), or are similar wars simulated by a system of alliances and coalitions?
 
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30 years war,
80 years war,
The printing press
conquest of Siberia
reconqista
Volcanic eruptions and the following climate crisis (Little Ice Age - Year without summer, etc.)
Little Ice Age seems like a great idea for a historic "situation" which isn't represented by other mechanics.
 
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