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Tinto Talks #15 - June 5th 2024

Welcome to the 15th Tinto Talks, where we ask for feedback on our extremely crazily top secret game which has the codename Project Caesar.

One thing that many have asked for has been a more in-depth dynastical gameplay, so here it is.

Characters
Before we delve into the dynamics of dynastic gameplay, we must first talk about their building blocks, the characters.

european (1).jpg


Here is a European King with an early 18th century background.

While not copying the Crusader Kings mechanics, a Character in Project Caesar is a bit more alive than in let's say EU4. A character is born, lives, and eventually dies.

Every character has Administrative, Diplomatic and Military Attributes ranging from 0-100. Of course, these attributes will not add any sort of mana, but they will impact how well the character will perform certain roles. One example is that the diplomatic ability of an admiral impacts the morale of the navy he leads.

Newborn characters start with 0, but that grows until they are adults depending on what childhood trait they have. You can also assign your rulers’ children and grandchildren a specific education during their childhood

gifted.png

This is a trait that when on the heir of the player it increases the chance of hunting accidents by 200%.

Characters ruling a country will gain up to 3 traits, depending on how long they have ruled.
They are gained while ruling a country. Characters that are generals or admirals will also get traits after combat. There are also unique traits for characters that are REDACTED or OTHER_SECRET_THING.

Characters also have a culture they come from, a religion they follow, they keep track of where they were born, and where they currently are living. They belong to an estate, which for most characters tends to be the nobles estate.

Many characters will have a father and/or a mother as well. For some historical characters at the start of the game that will not necessarily be true.

The number of spouse(s) a character can have depends on religions and laws, but the number of children they get depends more on the fertility of the parents.

So what can you do with characters? Well, this is not Crusader Kings, so the characters themselves are not as important, and there are no character specific events like in Imperator either. In this game, characters are tools to be used for the greater good. If that means marrying off your daughter to secure an alliance with France, then that's what you have to do. You can arrange marriages in your country, send less useful characters into convents, ennoble great people, and much more.
ashanti (1).jpg


This is an African ruler, in his throne room, which while beautiful, is just a background image…


Speaking of marriages, royal marriages in Project Caesar are not just sending a diplomat, here it is far more limited, as you have to actually marry real characters, and often this is a vital action. If you can’t arrange a royal marriage with a country of enough prestige, that has a young consort, you may be forced to marry a local noble from your country, or worse, even a lowborn.

A Royal Marriage between two rulers will immediately form a union between those two countries. Every country has its own inheritance laws, which if they differ, may cause a Union to break, as the rulers would be different. This is probably not the audience where I need to explain the difference between Salic Law and Semi-Salic Law right?


bjälbo.png

And who was the founder of this dynasty?

Dynasties are important, as they impact diplomacy in direct and indirect ways. As some inheritance laws prefer their own dynasty, and having the same dynasty can improve opinions between countries.


As in almost all previous GSG, the game will keep track of who has ruled that country before, just so you can go back and admire them. We have tried to get in as much history as possible here, even if my heathen content designers refuse to have Odin as the original King of Sweden!

ruler_history.png

Of course regnal numbering and actual names depend on many different things..


Stay tuned, next week we’ll be back and we will then talk about how the cabinet will work.
 

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Welcome to the 15th Tinto Talks, where we ask for feedback on our extremely crazily top secret game which has the codename Project Caesar.

One thing that many have asked for has been a more in-depth dynastical gameplay, so here it is.

Characters
Before we delve into the dynamics of dynastic gameplay, we must first talk about their building blocks, the characters.

View attachment 1144136

Here is a European King with an early 18th century background.

While not copying the Crusader Kings mechanics, a Character in Project Caesar is a bit more alive than in let's say EU4. A character is born, lives, and eventually dies.

Every character has Administrative, Diplomatic and Military Attributes ranging from 0-100. Of course, these attributes will not add any sort of mana, but they will impact how well the character will perform certain roles. One example is that the diplomatic ability of an admiral impacts the morale of the navy he leads.

Newborn characters start with 0, but that grows until they are adults depending on what childhood trait they have. You can also assign your rulers’ children and grandchildren a specific education during their childhood

View attachment 1144137
This is a trait that when on the heir of the player it increases the chance of hunting accidents by 200%.

Characters ruling a country will gain up to 3 traits, depending on how long they have ruled.
They are gained while ruling a country. Characters that are generals or admirals will also get traits after combat. There are also unique traits for characters that are REDACTED or OTHER_SECRET_THING.

Characters also have a culture they come from, a religion they follow, they keep track of where they were born, and where they currently are living. They belong to an estate, which for most characters tends to be the nobles estate.

Many characters will have a father and/or a mother as well. For some historical characters at the start of the game that will not necessarily be true.

The number of spouse(s) a character can have depends on religions and laws, but the number of children they get depends more on the fertility of the parents.

So what can you do with characters? Well, this is not Crusader Kings, so the characters themselves are not as important, and there are no character specific events like in Imperator either. In this game, characters are tools to be used for the greater good. If that means marrying off your daughter to secure an alliance with France, then that's what you have to do. You can arrange marriages in your country, send less useful characters into convents, ennoble great people, and much more.
View attachment 1144138

This is an African ruler, in his throne room, which while beautiful, is just a background image…


Speaking of marriages, royal marriages in Project Caesar are not just sending a diplomat, here it is far more limited, as you have to actually marry real characters, and often this is a vital action. If you can’t arrange a royal marriage with a country of enough prestige, that has a young consort, you may be forced to marry a local noble from your country, or worse, even a lowborn.

A Royal Marriage between two rulers will immediately form a union between those two countries. Every country has its own inheritance laws, which if they differ, may cause a Union to break, as the rulers would be different. This is probably not the audience where I need to explain the difference between Salic Law and Semi-Salic Law right?


View attachment 1144139
And who was the founder of this dynasty?

Dynasties are important, as they impact diplomacy in direct and indirect ways. As some inheritance laws prefer their own dynasty, and having the same dynasty can improve opinions between countries.


As in almost all previous GSG, the game will keep track of who has ruled that country before, just so you can go back and admire them. We have tried to get in as much history as possible here, even if my heathen content designers refuse to have Odin as the original King of Sweden!

View attachment 1144142
Of course regnal numbering and actual names depend on many different things..


Stay tuned, next week we’ll be back and we will then talk about how the cabinet will wor
will we get realistic titles like:
"By the Grace of God, We, the Great Sovereign, Tsar and Grand Prince Alexei Mikhailovich, Autocrat of all Great, Little and White Russia, Moscow, Kiev, Vladimir, Novgorod, Tsar of Kazan, Tsar of Astrakhan, Tsar of Siberia, Sovereign of Pskov and Grand Prince of Tver, Yugorsk, Perm, Vyatka, Bulgar and others, Sovereign and Grand Prince of Novgorod of the Lower Land, Chernigov, Ryazan, Rostov, Yaroslavl, Beloozero, Udoria, Obdoria, Kondia, and Ruler of all the Northern Countries, the Sovereign of the Iverian Lands, the Kartlian and Georgian Tsars and the Kabardian Lands, the Cherkasy and Mountainous Princes and many other States and Lands of the East and West, and the North from Father and Grandfather, and Heir, and Sovereign, and Possessor."?
 
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Can we put the Capets back on the thrones of France ? Either by playing France or Navarra and Burgundy ?
I mean, the House Capet is already on the throne? The House of Valois is simply a junior cadet branch of House Capet and their founder, Charles Count of Valois, was a son of King Philip III. Capet.
 
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Thinking about this a bit more, it seems like EU5 will have dynasties and characters pared down to what is essential for the dynastic part of the grand strategy experience, which is both amazing and hilarious when you consider that this was for many people what made the CK series such great strategy games -- up until CK3 where they decided strategy wasn't something they wanted in their game. Oh, and it seems like different government types with different succession laws will be fully supported on release while CK3 still has Muslim clans being a reskin of French feudals 3+ years in.
 
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I'm curious about how these characters are generated.

Will they use the DNA files system? And can you use static images for mods?
I think a lot of modders struggle with the DNA file system, when slapping a DDS file in a folder is easier.



I am a bellyacher, but I am more-or-less happy with this as an early draft. 3D, but looks 2D is fine. Frostpunk does that well, it's all about the quality of the final presentation.
For modders 3D is way easier. 2D requires good photoshop/artistic skills while 3D based on DNA doesn't require 3D modeling skills (unless you want to create assets that don't exist in the game already) or 2D artistic skills. I say this as a modder.
 
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Welcome to the 15th Tinto Talks, where we ask for feedback on our extremely crazily top secret game which has the codename Project Caesar.

One thing that many have asked for has been a more in-depth dynastical gameplay, so here it is.

Characters
Before we delve into the dynamics of dynastic gameplay, we must first talk about their building blocks, the characters.

View attachment 1144136

Here is a European King with an early 18th century background.

While not copying the Crusader Kings mechanics, a Character in Project Caesar is a bit more alive than in let's say EU4. A character is born, lives, and eventually dies.

Every character has Administrative, Diplomatic and Military Attributes ranging from 0-100. Of course, these attributes will not add any sort of mana, but they will impact how well the character will perform certain roles. One example is that the diplomatic ability of an admiral impacts the morale of the navy he leads.

Newborn characters start with 0, but that grows until they are adults depending on what childhood trait they have. You can also assign your rulers’ children and grandchildren a specific education during their childhood

View attachment 1144137
This is a trait that when on the heir of the player it increases the chance of hunting accidents by 200%.

Characters ruling a country will gain up to 3 traits, depending on how long they have ruled.
They are gained while ruling a country. Characters that are generals or admirals will also get traits after combat. There are also unique traits for characters that are REDACTED or OTHER_SECRET_THING.

Characters also have a culture they come from, a religion they follow, they keep track of where they were born, and where they currently are living. They belong to an estate, which for most characters tends to be the nobles estate.

Many characters will have a father and/or a mother as well. For some historical characters at the start of the game that will not necessarily be true.

The number of spouse(s) a character can have depends on religions and laws, but the number of children they get depends more on the fertility of the parents.

So what can you do with characters? Well, this is not Crusader Kings, so the characters themselves are not as important, and there are no character specific events like in Imperator either. In this game, characters are tools to be used for the greater good. If that means marrying off your daughter to secure an alliance with France, then that's what you have to do. You can arrange marriages in your country, send less useful characters into convents, ennoble great people, and much more.
View attachment 1144138

This is an African ruler, in his throne room, which while beautiful, is just a background image…


Speaking of marriages, royal marriages in Project Caesar are not just sending a diplomat, here it is far more limited, as you have to actually marry real characters, and often this is a vital action. If you can’t arrange a royal marriage with a country of enough prestige, that has a young consort, you may be forced to marry a local noble from your country, or worse, even a lowborn.

A Royal Marriage between two rulers will immediately form a union between those two countries. Every country has its own inheritance laws, which if they differ, may cause a Union to break, as the rulers would be different. This is probably not the audience where I need to explain the difference between Salic Law and Semi-Salic Law right?


View attachment 1144139
And who was the founder of this dynasty?

Dynasties are important, as they impact diplomacy in direct and indirect ways. As some inheritance laws prefer their own dynasty, and having the same dynasty can improve opinions between countries.


As in almost all previous GSG, the game will keep track of who has ruled that country before, just so you can go back and admire them. We have tried to get in as much history as possible here, even if my heathen content designers refuse to have Odin as the original King of Sweden!

View attachment 1144142
Of course regnal numbering and actual names depend on many different things..


Stay tuned, next week we’ll be back and we will then talk about how the cabinet will work.

Have been any research done on what players prefer more 2d or 3d characters?
 
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Are character stats randomized (if they all have the same upbringing) or is more like middle status characters are more common while extremes on either ends are more rare? Like an IQ distribution graph.
 
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Will there be some events that give us a chance to have historical dynasties on the throne as the game progresses?

Stuff like the Austro-Spanish alliance was pretty important for the later development of the era, and while i am not advocating for it to being a pre-determined scenario, i'd really like to see a Spanish Habsburg once in a while. For example with some triggers like Spain not having an heir or something.

Similarly, it'd be more immersive if there was a chance for example of House Vasa coming to power in Sweden or the Houses in France, should the ruling dynasty die out, being the other cadet branches of House Capet. Like House Bourbon or House Orleans.

This was something that was already missing in EU4 in my opinion. And eventhough there was technically an event for a Habsburg heir in Spain, it basically never happened for me, much less the ai, in thousands of hours.
 
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Does supporting a large family have a cost?
Maintaining an extended family can quickly become costly, if members live at the expense of the dynasty/state.
 
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Hi, I'd like to understand what's the reasoning behind giving charcters naval aptitudes based on its "Diplomacy". Navies and Admirals have always been part of the armed forces and the military so I don't see why naval related issues shouldn't use the "Military" points of characters. I get that trade issues, relations issues or IO issues should be related to the diplomatic hability of your ruler but admiral might of a character definetly is more related to his martial capabilities and not his diplomatic ones.

I know that navy stuff uses dip mana points in EUIV and I get it since it balances the game to clearly separate ground military tech from military navy tech. However since there is no more mana points in Project Caesar I don't see why this idea of Ships = Diplomacy should be kept (at least i don't understand it yet with the information we have had until now).

Anyways the rest of the post looks nice and very promising. Keep the good work!

Extra non-Important thought: Thinking about this I just came to the realization that if EUIV game had air forces they'd probably work with administration points and that's even funnier than the naval forces since at least navies are related to trade xD.
 
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This may be too specific a country to ask a question on, but I notice that the Frisians have a dynasty, meaning they're represented as having a single ruler, while Dithmarschen doesn't have a dynasty. As I understand, the Peasant Republics didn't have a single leader, but rather a council of judges that made the big political decisions. Are they just represented as a single ruler for gameplay purposes, or is their more decentralized nature going to be represented in-game?
 
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I love the look of the characters! Question about the African picture, I noticed while hovering over it that is labeled as "ashanti (1)" rather than "african (1)". Does this mean something about it (the clothes or background) is unique to ashanti? Or is it meant to represent the broader Coastal West Africa region, or the whole of West Africa? It'd be awesome to get a good mix of different regional styles
 
This looks fantastic. For a second there, I got freaked out by the realism of the portraits! (Not a criticism)

Two questions:
Will Rulers get other backgrounds for their characters to differentiate from Non-ruling members? It would certainly help on the tree.

And how will the fashion changes from 1300-1800 be modelled? Clothing of the Late Middle Ages looks really different from clothing during the French Revolution. In CK3, this wasn't modelled and some Scandinavian clothing looks anachronistic. Will the Clothing or Background changes be tied to time periods or to techs?
 
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