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Tinto Talks #18 - 26th of June 2024

Welcome everyone to another Tinto Talks. This is the time of the week where we will be focusing on gathering your helpful feedback on how to shape this secret game with the code name of Project Ceasar together.

Today we will get back into politics, and discuss how Laws function in this game. Sadly, when this is going live, I’m technically on vacation, so might not be able to reply. The good news for you though, is that @SaintDaveUK and @Pavía are more than happy to reply.

We have had various forms of laws in previous grand strategy games, everything from deciding how the Upper House in Victoria 2 is composed to simpler things like decisions “The Education Act” in EU3 that gave you a permanent bonus. In Project Caesar what we define as a Law is something that has 2 or more policies to choose from, and where you can change the policy for a cost.

Many Laws have lots of unique policies that are available for certain tags, religions, cultures or other unique restrictions.

Currently most countries start with about 12-15 laws that they have policies on from the start, and there are about 40 more laws that appear over the ages.

law_categories.png

Four different administrative laws here, all for the ideal way to run our country.

Enacting a policy for a new law is merely a cost in gold, but changing a policy is far more costly. At a base cost of 100 stability, it's rather costly, and while a high crown power reduces it, having low crown power, which would be very common in the early part of the game, would increase that cost further.

So how do you pass a law then without plunging your country into chaos? Call in the Parliament and convince them to approve law changes! How that works in detail we will talk about when we talk about parliaments.

Also to take into account is that while you immediately will lose the benefits of the previous policy, enacting a new policy takes time. Depending on your administrative efficiency it can take several years until you reap the full benefits of a +1% Tax Efficiency, just like in real life..

Not only countries have laws, many international organizations have laws as well, where in some of them it's something the leader like The Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire could enact on their own, in some there are specific countries that can vote on the policy being approved or not, and many more options possible. We will go into details about those when we talk about specific International Organizations.

So what type of policies do we have in the laws? Well, they are not just modifier-stacks like many things in previous games, but they enable and disable mechanics, they make estates happy or unhappy, and have impact on your societal values.

Here are a few examples of laws.

The Levy Law here is an interesting choice. 2% more of the peasants is a fair bit more than 20% of the nobles, but over time it has an impact over what your military focuses on.

levy_law.png

Or is it a way to kill nobles more efficiently?

Naval Doctrines was a concept in EU4, and here it is a law with lots of different options depending on who you play as.
naval_doctrine.png

Wooden Wall, the best for England right?

Your Legal Code has many different options depending on who you play, but as England you definitely have the important choice.

common_law.png

More efficient government or more happy estates? or just the traditions?

In the later part of the game, the Press Laws is something you have to decide upon..

press_laws.png

This is a tough choice, isn't it?

If you go with free press, the burghers might start building these in different towns and cities.
local_newspaper.png

There should be no drawbacks to this... right? right???

Here is an example of a religious law, about what religion your heirs can belong to.
heir_laws.png

Clearly the clergy are not as tolerant as they need to be.



Speaking of Heirs, the “Succession Law” mechanic is not technically a law, but uses another mechanic, primarily because we want to always ensure that it's valid, and enforcing a country to always have one. This Special Law is very much dependent on government type.

We have lots of unique ones, like the Papal Conclave, where when the pope dies, the cardinals gather to debate who will be the new pope. This can be quick, but sometimes it may take several years. We have different election methods for republics, and of course the old classic Salic and Semi-Salic Laws as some of the options for Monarchies.
salic_law.png

A difference on view of this will never cause any wars I'm sure..

For all of you that like to modify games, all of these are 100% controlled from textfiles.

Stay tuned, because next week we will finally talk about ages and institutions, which is something we have hinted at for many weeks.
 
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What about countries that don't have parliaments? Does that mean that changing a law always results in huge stability loss? That seems strange and shouldn't happen in every situation. What if it's a law that the ruling elites would prefer changed? Or a law change that is good for most people in the country? What if the ruler has tamed the elites and rules with a moderate level of control, shouldn't the stability loss be less in this case?

Talk seems to imply crown power also affects law impact which makes sense.
 
I just hope "unique" laws make sense (like the Papacy one), and aren't things that could easily be enacted elsewhere, but kept as "unique" for flavour reason.
 
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Do I have to enact a law? Like if I unlock a new law, can I just sit on it and never enact a specific policy forever?
 
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Welcome everyone to another Tinto Talks. This is the time of the week where we will be focusing on gathering your helpful feedback on how to shape this secret game with the code name of Project Ceasar together.

Today we will get back into politics, and discuss how Laws function in this game. Sadly, when this is going live, I’m technically on vacation, so might not be able to reply. The good news for you though, is that @SaintDaveUK and @Pavía are more than happy to reply.

We have had various forms of laws in previous grand strategy games, everything from deciding how the Upper House in Victoria 2 is composed to simpler things like decisions “The Education Act” in EU3 that gave you a permanent bonus. In Project Caesar what we define as a Law is something that has 2 or more policies to choose from, and where you can change the policy for a cost.

Many Laws have lots of unique policies that are available for certain tags, religions, cultures or other unique restrictions.

Currently most countries start with about 12-15 laws that they have policies on from the start, and there are about 40 more laws that appear over the ages.

View attachment 1151302
Four different administrative laws here, all for the ideal way to run our country.

Enacting a policy for a new law is merely a cost in gold, but changing a policy is far more costly. At a base cost of 100 stability, it's rather costly, and while a high crown power reduces it, having low crown power, which would be very common in the early part of the game, would increase that cost further.

So how do you pass a law then without plunging your country into chaos? Call in the Parliament and convince them to approve law changes! How that works in detail we will talk about when we talk about parliaments.

Also to take into account is that while you immediately will lose the benefits of the previous policy, enacting a new policy takes time. Depending on your administrative efficiency it can take several years until you reap the full benefits of a +1% Tax Efficiency, just like in real life..

Not only countries have laws, many international organizations have laws as well, where in some of them it's something the leader like The Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire could enact on their own, in some there are specific countries that can vote on the policy being approved or not, and many more options possible. We will go into details about those when we talk about specific International Organizations.

So what type of policies do we have in the laws? Well, they are not just modifier-stacks like many things in previous games, but they enable and disable mechanics, they make estates happy or unhappy, and have impact on your societal values.

Here are a few examples of laws.

The Levy Law here is an interesting choice. 2% more of the peasants is a fair bit more than 20% of the nobles, but over time it has an impact over what your military focuses on.

View attachment 1151297
Or is it a way to kill nobles more efficiently?

Naval Doctrines was a concept in EU4, and here it is a law with lots of different options depending on who you play as.View attachment 1151298
Wooden Wall, the best for England right?

Your Legal Code has many different options depending on who you play, but as England you definitely have the important choice.

View attachment 1151303
More efficient government or more happy estates? or just the traditions?

In the later part of the game, the Press Laws is something you have to decide upon..

View attachment 1151304
This is a tough choice, isn't it?

If you go with free press, the burghers might start building these in different towns and cities.
View attachment 1151307
There should be no drawbacks to this... right? right???

Here is an example of a religious law, about what religion your heirs can belong to.
View attachment 1151309
Clearly the clergy are not as tolerant as they need to be.



Speaking of Heirs, the “Succession Law” mechanic is not technically a law, but uses another mechanic, primarily because we want to always ensure that it's valid, and enforcing a country to always have one. This Special Law is very much dependent on government type.

We have lots of unique ones, like the Papal Conclave, where when the pope dies, the cardinals gather to debate who will be the new pope. This can be quick, but sometimes it may take several years. We have different election methods for republics, and of course the old classic Salic and Semi-Salic Laws as some of the options for Monarchies.
View attachment 1151310
A difference on view of this will never cause any wars I'm sure..

For all of you that like to modify games, all of these are 100% controlled from textfiles.

Stay tuned, because next week we will finally talk about ages and institutions, which is something we have hinted at for many weeks.
Great stuff! This seems like an excellent system to build upon.

One question— shouldn’t the less accepting religious laws have a negative tolerance impact on heretics/heathens?
 
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not all countries have parliaments
I do think it’d be very helpful to have some alternatives to parliament for tags that didn’t have one historically but whose rulers also didn’t possess absolute power.
 
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I wonder if there are going to be actual in-game entities representing each member of parliament, imagine if liberum veto poland requires every member of parliament to approve a law. Would definitely make poland a lot more challenging

1. The design is one policy per law, so the player has to make a decision, and can't stack infinite policies per law.

I understand this design philosophy, but I want to suggest that there be a "legacy laws" category which has a collection of some old feudal laws specific to each nation. Some examples that come to mind are tax laws on the books for various nations, like the gabelle in France, or more fun, ship money in England.

It would be super fun if we could RP Charles I by demanding ship money - perhaps the player gets no tyranny/unrest/estate happiness penalty/ if they use ship money when at war with a country that has x% naval size of England, but they are allowed to use it otherwise at a steep price to estate happiness.

Imo if like 2-3 laws of this kind could be found for most majors, it would make each country feel more flavourful
 
We used to have naval doctrines as their own feature, but got merged into the law system about a year ago.. they are a bit lackluster and could use some estate & society impact as well.
Yeah, it’d be nice to see them having more impact. As is, these seem pretty much just copy-pasted over from EU4— they served their purpose there, but it feels like they could have so much more depth in a game like this.
 
Talk seems to imply crown power also affects law impact which makes sense.
Yeah that does seem to be the case. That covers one of my concerns. There's still the issue of stability being reduced when changing to a policy that is preferred by the population and/or elites.
 
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I honestly don't like freedom of the press linked to literacy. I understand that literacy will have an impact on research rate and this is supposed to represent how pluralistic societies are supposedly better at innovation, but let's be honest, that isn't necessarily true (even if the institutional background might be more conducive to it), nor do more people can read good just because dissent is allowed.
I have to agree on this. Communist countries had probably highest literacy growth rates during 20th century, since state forced everyone to go to school, but there was no freedom of press.
 
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Yeah. Especially the Naval Doctrines are disappointing. At least the others nudge your national values or impact estate relations, but all these are JUST naval combat modifiers that will be lost with all the other naval combat modifiers you stack. Many of these don't make sense to be mutually exclusive anyway.

Thanks for that reminder! I'm still curious how dynamic that will be, can characters change estates?
Hopefully, they still haven't started work on military doctrines, so they just "copy-paste" them from EU4, to show they're still in the game.
 
When it says for example "monthly progress to quality" does it mean it will reach the maximum value of "Army quality modifier" in [Max/MonthlyProgress = XMonths] or will there be some equalibrium which will make it stop at certain value similar to army tradition in Eu4 ?
If i remember correctly, Johan said, all sliders will move towards equilibrium, and, the equilibrium will be different for different countries, depending on laws, cultures, etc.
 
Agincourt had NO impact whatsoever on the french nobility right :p

Luckily not, otherwise it would have ensured, together with Crécy (and other battles), that the French nobility would have been so thinned out that the king could assume absolutist control.

UNIMAGINABLE!!!
 
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