Captured equipment and converting older equipment

[Ritterkreuz]

Is there any mod that allows you to use and convert captured equipment? Like the Germans did with Pzkfw 38 (t) , Marder TDs, Hetzer, Grille etc. Also, Italians used French airplanes and tanks, while Romania converted some soviet T-60 light tanks in tank destroyers

 

[Pasha]

Is there any mod that allows you to use and convert captured equipment? Like the Germans did with Pzkfw 38 (t) , Marder TDs, Hetzer, Grille etc. Also, Italians used French airplanes and tanks, while Romania converted some soviet T-60 light tanks in tank destroyers

Not to the extent you're describing. But I believe there's a decision or event in the WiF2 mod for this and it's probably carried over in the other mods that use WiF as their base (EOD, AIO, TGC, etc.). But if I recall, it's only available to Germany and I think it only occurs once after the defeat of France. I haven't played Ger in many many years, but I believe it gives you an armoured brigade or two. I think there's also a prewar event that gives Ger an armoured division after the annexation of Czech to portray the use of PZ 35 and PZ 38. I'd also ask in the TRP thread, since they're pretty good with realism and historical events like that from what I've heard.

 

[Bad4play]

I'm planning to add at some point the possibility to capture foreign equipment. This will take form of a unit representing the captured equipment (tank, half track, planes, etc) that will be upgradable for low cost to the desired unit type (armored unit, motorized,...) and need manpower reinforcement to complete the unit. This is not my priority for the moment tho. Another easy way to represent this is just having an event linked to captured equipment that give supplies or brigade, I've got a beta version of this ready if you're interested (it's working but doesn't give all type of brigade, just artillery if I recall).

 

[Nick3210]

Also, Italians used French airplanes and tanks,

I have done a lot of research to add accurate historical trophies captured by Germany, USSR and UK to the game. Ships, tanks, planes, weapon. money, supplies.

"Italians used French airplanes and tanks"
Which models do you specifically mean?

Italians captured 36 Dewoitine D.520 fighters from Vichy in 1942 and got 30 from Germany later.
66 planes is not enough for one unit, but may be it will be not mistake to give to Italy a unit with 66% HP.

Something else?

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I also see Germans have captured 200+ Dewoitine D.520 from Vichy in 1942. Next time I will add two fighter units in Vichy annexation event.
Thanks for the tip, I missed this moment.

 

[Pasha]

I also see Germans have captured 200+ Dewoitine D.520 from Vichy in 1942. Next time I will add two fighter units in Vichy annexation event.
Thanks for the tip, I missed this moment.

That's pretty cool. In the old Avalon Hill boardgame Luftwaffe, the German player can use D 520s to intercept Allied bombers and fighters. Although I think historically the Germans only ever used the D 520 as trainers. But I could be wrong.

 

[Lord Rommel]

The problem of "captured" equipment is the way that DH doesnt simulate "weapons" in terms of collectable items/objects.
In TRP we had some events in that regard:
Germany gets an event that will allow axis nations to get some regular brigades or divisions. Germany is getting some divisions after the end of Austria and Czechoslovakia.
Finnland can buy several brigades from "captured weapon stocks".
When the game is getting more open we start to drop the idea because we dont have triggers or conditions to check for "captured weapons" and to generate units like brigades and divisions with that equipment. So we dont created separated brigades or divisions because AI cant handle it and we cant simulate the data needed and there is no real benefit for the game.

 

[Nick3210]

That's pretty cool. In the old Avalon Hill boardgame Luftwaffe, the German player can use D 520s to intercept Allied bombers and fighters. Although I think historically the Germans only ever used the D 520 as trainers. But I could be wrong.

It looks like a half was given to Bulgaria, Italy and Romania. And half of them left in Germany as air defense fighters. And then Germany also produced them in France and create three JG with D 520.
I will give 1 halved unit to Italy and 2 to Germany. Let the player decide himself or historically to give them to Bulgaria and Romania or to use them in Germany.

Spoiler

 

[Lord Rommel]

It looks like a half was given to Bulgaria, Italy and Romania. And half of them left in Germany as air defense fighters. And then Germany also produced them in France and create three JG with D 520.
I will give 1 halved unit to Italy and 2 to Germany. Let the player decide himself or historically to give them to Bulgaria and Romania or to use them in Germany.

Spoiler

View attachment 1129869

To be fair I cant find a big deployment by the Luftwaffe.
Looks like JG 107 was the only operating "Geschwader" with D 520 for training usage - and with 2 Gruppen it was a small training JG at all (compared to a 4 "Gruppen" strong Geschwader).

I guess the problem is the rating of captured weapons and its impact. There are assets that were very important (e.g. Panzer 35/38 for the Wehrmacht) or less important (e.g. 25mm APX modèle 1937). The entire constrution is getting even more "confusing" when u think about the unit level. E.g. Germany formed several new division equipped with czech weapons so these assetts were very important. On the other side there was no division formed from french or soviet stocks and still u can find weapons from these countries serving with different impact (Point du Hoc assault at D-Day againt former french long range artillery guns) until the end of the war.
Furhtermore, u have to keep in mind that HoI is working with an abstract "number system". An unit is dealing X soft or hard attack. Such a system is very simplified and didnt allow for big variation and/or impact. HoI has massive problems in terms of "represent" a division or unit formed from weapon X or Y.

To be fair from my point of view HoI IV had the best way so far by simulating captured weapons in numbers allowing to form new units with these weapons BUT when u look at a HoI IV unit with national or foreign weapons u will see that stats are often similar/the same just depending on the "year marking" of the equipment used for the unit.

 

[Ritterkreuz]

I have done a lot of research to add accurate historical trophies captured by Germany, USSR and UK to the game. Ships, tanks, planes, weapon. money, supplies.

"Italians used French airplanes and tanks"
Which models do you specifically mean?

Italians captured 36 Dewoitine D.520 fighters from Vichy in 1942 and got 30 from Germany later.
66 planes is not enough for one unit, but may be it will be not mistake to give to Italy a unit with 66% HP.

Something else?

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I also see Germans have captured 200+ Dewoitine D.520 from Vichy in 1942. Next time I will add two fighter units in Vichy annexation event.
Thanks for the tip, I missed this moment.

Italy used 32 or 38 SOMUA S 35 tanks, some 109-124 (or up to 140) Renault R-35 light tanks, some Lioré et Olivier LeO 451 planes, over 60 D.520 fighters and 25 of the 52 MS.406 fighters delivered by the Germans. Bulgaria received 96 to 120 D.520 fighters.

Furthermore, captured artillery guns were used by Germans, Italians, Romanians, Finns. In The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943-1944, Rick Atkinson wrote that half of the Wehrmacht’s artillery pieces on the Eastern Front were French guns. General Hans Eberbach, while commanding Fifth Panzer Army against the British in Normandy, wrote that his artillery included guns from every major power in Europe.

The approximate numbers of French AFVs captured by the German Wehrmacht are as follows: 300x Panhard-178; 3,000 Renault-UE; 350 to 360x Lorraine 37L and 38L; 1700x Renault FT Tanks (various versions); 843x Renault R35; 550 to 600x Hotchkiss H-35 and H-39; 50x FCM-36 tanks; 297x SOMUA S-35 tanks and 161x Char B1 bis tanks. Some of them were converted in tank destroyers, SPGs, artillery tractors and ammunition carriers after removing their turrets.

 

[Ritterkreuz]

To be fair I cant find a big deployment by the Luftwaffe.
Looks like JG 107 was the only operating "Geschwader" with D 520 for training usage - and with 2 Gruppen it was a small training JG at all (compared to a 4 "Gruppen" strong Geschwader).

I guess the problem is the rating of captured weapons and its impact. There are assets that were very important (e.g. Panzer 35/38 for the Wehrmacht) or less important (e.g. 25mm APX modèle 1937). The entire constrution is getting even more "confusing" when u think about the unit level. E.g. Germany formed several new division equipped with czech weapons so these assetts were very important. On the other side there was no division formed from french or soviet stocks and still u can find weapons from these countries serving with different impact (Point du Hoc assault at D-Day againt former french long range artillery guns) until the end of the war.
Furhtermore, u have to keep in mind that HoI is working with an abstract "number system". An unit is dealing X soft or hard attack. Such a system is very simplified and didnt allow for big variation and/or impact. HoI has massive problems in terms of "represent" a division or unit formed from weapon X or Y.

To be fair from my point of view HoI IV had the best way so far by simulating captured weapons in numbers allowing to form new units with these weapons BUT when u look at a HoI IV unit with national or foreign weapons u will see that stats are often similar/the same just depending on the "year marking" of the equipment used for the unit.

Maybe an event could be made that if you capture certain enemy cities you will receive an x amount of tanks, planes. Meaning that you captured equipment left behind by the defending garison. For example, Germany would several smaller units equipped with R-35 or H-39 tanks after it occupies Paris.

Also, it would be awsome to have the possibility of converting older equipment into tank dystroyers, SPGs or SPAAs or even artillery tractors for mechanized artillery. For example, if you upgrade five divisions with Pz I to Pz II you get an event that allows you to transform the older tanks in Panzerjager I TD or Sturmpamzer SPA or Flakpanzer I SPAA subunits.

 

[InfArmMot]

Italy used 32 or 38 SOMUA S 35 tanks, some 109-124 (or up to 140) Renault R-35 light tanks, some Lioré et Olivier LeO 451 planes, over 60 D.520 fighters and 25 of the 52 MS.406 fighters delivered by the Germans. Bulgaria received 96 to 120 D.520 fighters.

Furthermore, captured artillery guns were used by Germans, Italians, Romanians, Finns. In The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy, 1943-1944, Rick Atkinson wrote that half of the Wehrmacht’s artillery pieces on the Eastern Front were French guns. General Hans Eberbach, while commanding Fifth Panzer Army against the British in Normandy, wrote that his artillery included guns from every major power in Europe.

The approximate numbers of French AFVs captured by the German Wehrmacht are as follows: 300x Panhard-178; 3,000 Renault-UE; 350 to 360x Lorraine 37L and 38L; 1700x Renault FT Tanks (various versions); 843x Renault R35; 550 to 600x Hotchkiss H-35 and H-39; 50x FCM-36 tanks; 297x SOMUA S-35 tanks and 161x Char B1 bis tanks. Some of them were converted in tank destroyers, SPGs, artillery tractors and ammunition carriers after removing their turrets.

Important numbers. Thank you.

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For instance the 360x Lorraine 37L.

This one, I belive is a modified version of the Lorraine 37L?

Not sure how many they modified. There should be enough for at least one brigade.

The following is from a website about this platform. Including the German use of it.

German use​

After the 1940 campaign, numerous Lorraine TRCs fell into German hands, practically all in perfect state. The new vehicle partially filled the Wehrmacht’s need for an armored supply vehicle. Therefore, 300 to 360 (depending on the source) Lorraine vehicles were reconditioned and pressed into service with the Wehrmacht as Lorraine Schlepper (f), the ‘(f)’ denoting a captured French vehicle in German service.

Gradually, the Germans came to appreciate it for its simplicity and the sturdiness of the suspension and the vehicle was renamed Gefechtsfeld-Versorgungsfahrzeug Lorraine 37L (f) or Munitionstransportkraftwagen auf Lorraine Schlepper. They were used by frontline units in 1941, in the Balkans, Russia, and North Africa.

Self-propelled gun conversions​

Hitler himself headed an evaluation commission on 23rd May 1942. He ordered the conversion of a hundred Lorraine 37Ls to self-propelled howitzers. Therefore, in 1942, about 40 15-cm schwere Feldhaubitze 13/1 (Sf.) auf Geschützwagen Lorraine-Schlepper (f) were ordered. These were converted by Alkett, with 166 delivered in total. About 60 10.5-cm leichte Feldhaubitze 18/4 (Sf.) auf Geschützwagen Lorraine-Schlepper (f) were also ordered, but only 12 were delivered.

The best-known conversion of the Lorraine 37L was the 7.5 cm PaK40/1 auf Geschützwagen Lorraine Schlepper (f) or Marder I. This was the first tank hunter designed for the Eastern Front, kick-started by encounters with the T-34 and KV-1. They replaced the inefficient Panzerjäger I armed with a Skoda 4.7 cm gun, while the Marder I received the 75 mm (2.95 in) Pak 40. The idea was experimented with in May 1942 by Major Alfred Becker and about 170 were delivered, the first lost on the Eastern Front, while later conversions fought in Normandy in 1944.

Beobachtungswagen auf Lorraine Schlepper (f)​

This was a dedicated Wehrmacht artillery observation vehicle made by Baukommando Becker, a group that took over control of three factories in occupied France and converted a large number of captured vehicles for various purposes, most importantly tank destroyers and artillery SPGs. It was meant to sit near the frontline, keeping a safe distance from the shelled area and anti-tank guns, in order to observe and communicate the results of the bombardment and any corrections in real-time. The observation post was in the elevated top rear part, with a range finder and binoculars. The radio operator had a powerful emitter-receiver FuG radio. The vehicle was unarmed except for a defensive multipurpose 7.62 mm MG 34 pintle-mounted at the rear of the casemate. Access was done through the rear. A ventilation plate was mounted above the engine for extra ventilation.

Link
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I think the German player should get at least one artillery brigade, two anti-aircraft brigades, and one light and one medium tank brigade after France falls. There should be plenty of Red Army artillery brigades provided after some of the big cities in the USSR fall. Only one or two tank brigades. From 1941 to 1945, Wehrmacht used only around 300 Red Army captured Panzers. But thousands of Red Army Artillery pieces. Considering the numbers of trucks captured from both the French and British, perhaps also one "empty" motorized division that need German manpower.

Other links about captured allied equipment

Captured Allied Armor

Captured Russian Equipment and Munition

 

[Lord Rommel]

Well. I guess the "german" story is bit more "complicated" in conncetion with captured weapons and arms.

On your suggest "gifted brigades"; I guess people here are looking for a unit that is SHOWING the captured weapons. So I think they wont be happy (or satisfied) by adding a random artillery brigade or tank brigade that would use the german models.csv and rename the "captured weapons" into german build weapons.
Furthermore, the idea is working with a "historical" war.
When looking at France; think of a war that last half a year or a year longer. The captured numbers would look different. So u would need a "flexiable" event to simulate the effects or add a sort of random chance here.

For the german case here; The germans had a difficult way of deal with these captured stuff. After the battle of france many weapons were collected, catagolised and transported into warehouses of the Wehrkreis commands. Some other stuff was just stored at the country where they were captured.
When u look at the french equipment u can see that most of the artillery was left IN france and used for training and coastal defense. Only a small number of guns were used to close certain gaps (e.g. some french heavy guns were used to create new army corps artillery units). The same story can be seen with the tanks. Most of the french H35/39 or R35 or S35 or Char B1 were just left IN France. Here local units like Baukommando Becker used the remaining storages to create new weapons to compensate battle casulties or german weapons that were sent to other fronts later. The entire Marder I or 10,5 cm leFH18(Sf) auf Geschützwagen 39H(f) were started to compensate the lack of mobile armored support for the rebuilding of the shattered 21. Panzer-Division (or other shattered units). On the other side u have the story of the 4,7cm PaK(t) auf Panzerkampfwagen 35R(f) - a vehicle that was born out of the success of the Panzerjäger I and to get more of these type of vehicles for the soviet battlefields.

The story can be made even more complicated by looking e.g. at the Panzer 38t that was a captured design that was "nationalised" and used in such a scale that u could call it the most important "captured weapon system" by far (plus the entire industry xD).

And when u need more spice u can look at the italian weapons that were reused by the Wehrmacht after the italian split in 1943; Here the germans were collection italians weapons. After a rating done by the officers and specialists in the theater the germans decided to reuse the assault guns for the italian battles, send all M tanks to the Balkans to fight the lighter armed partisans and to use italian artillery for coastal defense. That was all done just to get around the natural bottleneck of the Alps and the "Brenner Pass". With that basic orga done the germans decided to move around these now avalible italians weapons depending on the situation of the units. E.g. when the 26. PzDiv was rushed to the ardriatic coast in 1943 they were "boosted" with Semovente 105/25 and 75/18s to support the weak Flammenpanzer units because of the results of these type of units near the Salerno beachhead.

SO u can find a lot of details and elements in that story. Its not a streamlined and "planned" story - in no scenario for any side in ww2.

At the end the story of captured weapons is very complicated and not very easy to simulate because often they werent captured in that great numbers OR they were outdated and need maintaining and refits to get any combat value. On the other side u can find those vehicles until the end of the war like 4,7cm PaK(t) auf Panzerkampfwagen 35R(f) cutting Hell's Highway in the Netherlands or soviet SU-76i in the Ukraine fighting at the Tscherkassy pocket.

When u want to simulate such a difficult topic u would need a more deep dive approach.

When u are just looking for "gifted brigades" I think that is a point that could be done easy

 

[InfArmMot]

Thanks.

It is not as simple as I may have thought. Perhaps it could be an event option? It only appears after a huge victory. The event text could say something like: modifying captured equipment. If the player active the event, an info box appears. It explains how much equipment has been captured, and the IC needed to modify it. Including the time it takes.

But that is not it. The event script will decide, for the player, which division will be refitted with the new brigade. Just like you described with the rating and officers and specialist.

Not sure about other mods, but Edge Of Darkness make use of gifted brigades. At least for Germany.

 

[Nick3210]

There should be plenty of Red Army artillery brigades provided after some of the big cities in the USSR fall.

For my shame, I really completely ignored this moment with the Soviet artillery that Germany got in 1941.
Thanks for this very true and good hint, I will definitely study this issue and next time will add to Germany historical number of captured soviet artillery brigades.

Moreover, I even have no need to make new events for this, these brigades should be added to my current events about the lost of Soviet cities/commanders, so that the number of trophies in the game will corresponds to the depth of German invasion in Soviet territory.

 

[Lord Rommel]

For my shame, I really completely ignored this moment with the Soviet artillery that Germany got in 1941.
Thanks for this very true and good hint, I will definitely study this issue and next time will add to Germany historical number of captured soviet artillery brigades.

Moreover, I even have no need to make new events for this, these brigades should be added to my current events about the lost of Soviet cities/commanders, so that the number of trophies in the game will corresponds to the depth of German invasion in Soviet territory.

That is a deep rabbit hole. I think I never saw any offical german document counting any "captured weapon/gun" after big campaigns like France or 1941 in the USSR. But its nice when u look e.g. into Zaloga's "German Field Artillery of ww2".
Here he is talking about some general aspects of captured artillery.

E.g. he is talking about 4.000 captured "Soixante-Quinze" guns by the Wehrmacht; The Canon de 75mm mle 1897. The guns were captured in Poland and France and at the Balkans. Out of these 4.000 guns 3.700 were used for converting into the Pak 97/38. So by that number u can see the problem that an field gun could "change" its role. On the other side he has listed the german "role" for captured artillery; The Wehrmacht restricted the usage of a gun to the ammo avalibility. An infantry gun was accept for frontline combat when the gun had 250 rounds ready. For artillery they asked for 150 rounds for a frontline gun. The restriction had resulted in a large drop of guns accepted for frontline units because the captured stocks for some guns were so low that they cant fulfil the requirements.

U can see that many elements are vital for get a "working Beutewaffe"

 

[Nick3210]

Out of these 4.000 guns 3.700 were used for converting into the Pak 97/38. So by that number u can see the problem that an field gun could "change" its role.

Thanks for the tip, I didn't know they had changed their role.
Hmm.. So, since the mechanics of the game do not allow us historically to change these Artillery to Antitank in 1942-1943, after receiving these trophies as Artillery by the events in 1939-1940, we need immediately to determine in what role to give these trophies to Germany.
I think it's worth keeping these trophies as the Artillery class, because for Gameplay as Germany, Artillery looks more useful than Antitank and at the end they were originally obtained as Artillery.

When giving trophies to Germany, I used Russian publications, I can't be sure how accurate they are, but I think they compiled data from different foreign sources, so I hope these data should match.
For example, for German trophy Artillery from Poland, Russian sources give the following data, which I used:

#########################
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 2 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 2 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 2 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 2 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 2 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 2 } # 220 150mm + 70 100mm

command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 1 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 1 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 1 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 1 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 1 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 1 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 1 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 1 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 1 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 1 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 1 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 1 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 1 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = artillery when = 1 } # 600 other 100 mm + 284 75mm

command = { type = add_brigade value = anti_tank when = 0 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = anti_tank when = 0 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = anti_tank when = 0 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = anti_tank when = 0 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = anti_tank when = 0 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = anti_tank when = 0 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = anti_tank when = 0 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = anti_tank when = 0 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = anti_tank when = 0 }
command = { type = add_brigade value = anti_tank when = 0 } # 621 37mm Bofors-1935
#########################

 

[Lord Rommel]

That is already interesting.
Based on Fritz Hahn (Waffen und Geheimwaffen des deutschen Heeres) the Wehrmacht captured 621 37mm Bofors Paks in Poland only. Out of the 621 556 were sold to Romania. So the guns played no role at all. Based on that story its seems to me that your numbers could work but I guess that your "brigade numbers" are way too high because when I think of a standard Infantry-Division with 72 anti tank guns I wont create so many brigades.

At least for some weapons I can track some numbers.
For the AT guns:
3,7cm Pak 37(t): 644 captured - for Poland 883 were in usage with the frontline units.
3,7cm Pak 36(p): 621 captured - no usage, 556 sold.
4,7cm Pak (t): no numbers given; low production numbers because of high usage of rare metals.
4,7cm Pak 35/36(ö): Böhler 47mm gun - 330 captured; all sold to Italy. Some were later used as Pak 177(i).
4,7cm Pak 181(f): Antichar 47mm SA 37: 803 guns captured plus 20 not full assambles in factories. Most sold to Finland. Limited usage because of ammo problems.
2,5cm Pak 112(f) + 113(f): Used in small numbers - no numbers given.
4,5cm Pak 184(r): no numbers given.
5,7cm Pak 208(r): no numbers given.

For the famous Soixante-Quinze I can find 721 captured guns in Poland. They were used as FK 97(p). In France the guns were used and fired only 467 rounds. The gun was rated obsolete and removed from frontline service. All Soixante-Quinzes were put into the Zeughäuser (warehouses) for training and converting.

All data by:
Fritz Hahn. Waffen und Geheimwaffen des deutschen Heeres 1933 - 1945.

 

[Nick3210]

Wehrmacht captured 621 37mm Bofors Paks in Poland only. Out of the 621 556 were sold to Romania. So the guns played no role at all. Based on that story its seems to me that your numbers could work but I guess that your "brigade numbers" are way too high because when I think of a standard Infantry-Division with 72 anti tank guns I wont create so many brigades.

True. But I am absolutely sure that at first Germany should get all these 621 guns, according to history. Next, the player can decide for himself whether to give them to Romania, Italy or anyone else, or keep them for Germany. (Using a division with 1 hp, this can be done in multiplayer)
I attach the utmost importance to the capture of these trophies by Germany and do not attach importance to the further transfer of these guns trophies to Axis minors, just because it is useless for the gameplay and useless even for Romania. It is more profitable for the player to use them in Germany.
This is concept that I adhere to, but there is no problem if other modders may have a different concept and wish to give these guns by event directly to Romania for total historicity.

I am glad to see that Russian resources have the same data on the number of captured Polish Bofors, both, full and transferred to Romania.

P.S.
I'm probably really not very right from the point of view of maximum realism, not to giving these guns to Romania by hard direct event, but damn it, I can't overcome my greed and desire to strengthen Germany, and can't uselessly to throw out these Antitank guns by giving them to Romania.

Based on that story its seems to me that your numbers could work but I guess that your "brigade numbers" are way too high because when I think of a standard Infantry-Division with 72 anti tank guns I wont create so many brigades.

I agree, my artillery brigades have an extremely large number of guns, on the verge of realism. It was my goal to set the largest possible number of guns in the brigades (remaining within reasonable limits) in order to reduce the number of "free" trophy brigades in the game.
I looked at the number of artillery in German and Soviet divisions and in separate artillery regiments and set something universal largest number that can be imagined. It is the same number for all countries.
It can also be conditionally imagine that some of the trophies guns turned out to be defective and the real number of guns in the trophy brigade is less.
Of course, it is possible and is not bad to set fewer number guns in brigades, but I just don't want to have even more "free" captured artillery in the game, so I use "max possible" numbers of guns in brigade.

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P.S.
Perhaps I didn't get correctly.
My brigades have 60 guns (and 48 guns for heavy artillery), not 72. I think we need to use some kind of average value for all countries, it does not necessarily have to correspond specifically to German standards even for German tropheys. But of course it will not be a mistake if someone will add the German trophies at 72 Anti-tank guns per brigade if it correspond to German standarts.

 

[InfArmMot]

For my shame, I really completely ignored this moment with the Soviet artillery that Germany got in 1941.
Thanks for this very true and good hint, I will definitely study this issue and next time will add to Germany historical number of captured soviet artillery brigades.

Moreover, I even have no need to make new events for this, these brigades should be added to my current events about the lost of Soviet cities/commanders, so that the number of trophies in the game will corresponds to the depth of German invasion in Soviet territory.

No worries, Nick. You have covered so much ground already. Filling in a lot of gaps and creating something totally new, like the speed options for naval vessels.

Two words; well done.

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In regard to Germany, prior to the outbreak of war, the Wehrmacht prepared for this task. It categorized all known foreign equipment. Here is a link.

German designations of foreign artillery in World War II

Some of this information could potentially be used for future events. Like the six pieces of super-heavy siege guns. World War I design. Bought by Germany in 1938 from Czechoslovakia. Later, these six heavy guns were used at Pas De Calais, in France, against British convoys in the channel. The year after, they were deployed against the city of Leningrad. In 1942, they were sent back for repairs. It took a long time. Finally, they were returned to the front in 1945.

24 cm Kanone M. 16​

But when we talk about captured equipment, all sides used it. As example, I think the Red Army captured at least 1000 light German infantry guns. How many of them they used, I am unsure of? Some of them, went to China, later on.

Here is another link. Search for the word captured. You get 36 hits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_military_equipment_of_World_War_II#Artillery

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Then there is the ammunition aspect. Game-wise, it is an often-overlooked matter. After the fall of France, the Wehrmacht allegedly captured millions of artillery shells. Perhaps they can be implemented as an event.

Same with smalls arms. After the Germans took over Czechoslovakia, the Wehrmacht incorporated about 40,000 machine guns.

The Arsenal of the Reich

In a speech delivered in the Reichstag, Hitler stressed the military importance of occupation, noting that by occupying Czechoslovakia, Germany gained 2,175 field cannons, 469 tanks, 500 anti-aircraft artillery pieces, 43,000 machine guns, 1,090,000 military rifles, 114,000 pistols, about a billion rounds of ammunition and three million anti-aircraft shells. This amount of weaponry would be sufficient to arm about half of the then Wehrmacht.[33] Czechoslovak weaponry later played a major part in the German conquests of Poland (1939) and France (1940).

Or the Panzerfaust. It was used by allied troops, in large numbers, at the end of the war.

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Or another example which could also become an unpleasant event to any german player.

The 18th Panzer Division was rendered combat-incapable just two weeks into Operation Barbarossa by equipment issues, because at the start of the invasion this one unit was using:

• 6 different models of tank
• 96 different models of APC
• 37 different models of motorcycle
• 111 different models of truck

Maybe a game message like this could be implemented after the rate of the divisional vehicle loss has reached a certain point.

Operational Information Message Box

Due to heavy vehicle losses, the 18th Panzer Division reports that it is unable to move for the next 14 days.

The Führer is not pleased commander!!

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Another perhaps useful link:

https://www.operationbarbarossa.net...and-war-economy-june-to-december-1941-part-i/

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The fleet of civilian trucks in France and Benelux

Then there is the vast number of captured civilian trucks.

I could be wrong, but it may be that the thousands of civilian trucks captured after the fall of France, were used to equip no less than a total of 12 motorized and panzer divisions. One of these was the 18th Panzer Division.

There is a lot to this topic. To this day, Darkest Hour Full does not cover these massive amounts of captured weapons, vehicles and munition quantities.

 

[Nick3210]

Some of this information could potentially be used for future events. Like the six pieces of super-heavy siege guns.

I couldn't come up with any reasonable implementation for super heavy artillery brigade (which is in vanilla DH) so I completely removed this kind of brigade from the game. This brigade should deal damage to infrastructure, IC and fortifications, but these types of damage are not provided by the mechanics of the game for land brigades. In my opinion, reducing the penalty for attacking the fort is not correct and too insufficient effect to make sense to have and use such separate brigades.

I think the Red Army captured at least 1000 light German infantry guns.

I am skeptical and lazy about captured German equipment for USSR. Just because it began to appear in significant numbers too late in terms of gameplay - in 1942-1943 and later. At such late time, the player as USSR no longer needs these guns. Although as I see, USSR can get one captured brigade of german Anti-tank artillery in the event of 1941 winter counteroffensive. This is a rather ridiculous and useless amount, but maybe I will add it just for fun.
It is much more interested for me the Soviet artillery captured by the Germans in 1941. It really needs to be carefully studied and added these trophies to the game, I did not pay attention on it before.

Then there is the ammunition aspect. Game-wise, it is an often-overlooked matter. After the fall of France, the Wehrmacht allegedly captured millions of artillery shells. Perhaps they can be implemented as an event.

Same with smalls arms. After the Germans took over Czechoslovakia, the Wehrmacht incorporated about 40,000 machine guns.

Yes, trophy ammunition and arms are important, I tried to take this into account as trophy supplies that Germany get when capturing countries:
Austria - 10,000 supplies
Czechoslovakia - 40,000
Poland - 20,000
France/Benelux - 40,000

This is really serious bonuses that allows Germany to reduce production of supplies and increase the production of units.

Germany get Czech weapons and other materiel in the form of unbrigaded infantry divisions with 40%HP:

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command = { type = add_corps which = "Reserve Czech-weaponed group" value = land where = 207 } # Praha - Czechoslovakia

command = { type = add_division which = "06. Panzer-Division" value = light_armor when = 1 where = -30 }

command = { type = add_division which = "93. Infanterie-Division" value = infantry when = 1 where = -60 } # real 9 total Czech-weaponed Divisions
command = { type = add_division which = "94. Infanterie-Division" value = infantry when = 1 where = -60 }
command = { type = add_division which = "95. Infanterie-Division" value = infantry when = 1 where = -60 }
command = { type = add_division which = "96. Infanterie-Division" value = infantry when = 1 where = -60 }
command = { type = add_division which = "98. Infanterie-Division" value = infantry when = 1 where = -60 }
command = { type = add_division which = "81. Infanterie-Division" value = infantry when = 1 where = -60 }
command = { type = add_division which = "82. Infanterie-Division" value = infantry when = 1 where = -60 }
command = { type = add_division which = "83. Infanterie-Division" value = infantry when = 1 where = -60 }
command = { type = add_division which = "88. Infanterie-Division" value = infantry when = 1 where = -60 }

command = { type = add_division which = "50. Infanterie-Division" value = infantry when = 1 where = -60 } # other, for 1.2 mln rifles, 43000 MG and 2750 cannons (143 cannons in division = 19 divisions potentially )
command = { type = add_division which = "52. Infanterie-Division" value = infantry when = 1 where = -60 }
command = { type = add_division which = "56. Infanterie-Division" value = infantry when = 1 where = -60 }
command = { type = add_division which = "57. Infanterie-Division" value = infantry when = 1 where = -60 }
command = { type = add_division which = "58. Infanterie-Division" value = infantry when = 1 where = -60 }
command = { type = add_division which = "60. Infanterie-Division" value = infantry when = 1 where = -60 }

command = { type = add_division which = "4. Gebirgs-Division" value = bergsjaeger when = 1 where = -70 }
command = { type = add_division which = "5. Gebirgs-Division" value = bergsjaeger when = 1 where = -70 }
command = { type = add_division which = "6. Gebirgs-Division" value = bergsjaeger when = 1 where = -70 }

command = { type = add_brigade value = light_armor_brigade when = 0 }

command = { type = add_corps which = "Reserve Czech airgruppe" value = air where = 207 }
command = { type = add_division which = "01. Czech Avia B.534." value = interceptor when = 1 where = -20 } # Avia B.534.
command = { type = add_division which = "02. Czech Avia B.534." value = interceptor when = 1 where = -20 }
command = { type = add_division which = "03. Czech Avia B.534." value = interceptor when = 1 where = -20 }
command = { type = add_division which = "04. Czech Avia B.534." value = interceptor when = 1 where = -20 }
command = { type = add_division which = "01. Czech SB-2" value = tactical_bomber when = 1 where = -10 } # russian SB-2
command = { type = add_division which = "02. Czech B-71" value = tactical_bomber when = 1 where = -10 } # SB-71
command = { type = add_division which = "03. Czech Letov S-328" value = cas when = 0 where = -10 } # S-328

command = { type = manpowerpool value = -73 } # For new Czech-weaponed Divisions
command = { type = supplies value = 40000 } # For rifles, 1 billion ammunition
command = { type = money value = 4200 } # For Czech 5.6 mln sterling pounds from Bank Of England

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Soviets also get supplies from Poland/Baltic States/Bessarabia

In addition to captured land weapons, aircraft and supplies, I also took into account gold, oil, transport ships and warships captured by Germany, USSR, Britain and Japan.
For example, Germany got:
In Austria - 78 tons of gold = 88 mln $ = 13000 money in Game.
Czech 5.6 mln sterling pounds from Bank Of England = 4200 money in Game

USSR got 78000 money for 510 tons of Spanish (0.90% pure) gold
Britain got 11250 money for 10 tons of Baltic States gold
and so on

The fleet of civilian trucks in France and Benelux

Then there is the vast number of captured civilian trucks.

Yes, I've been thinking about it and haven't found any way to display them except as in a lot of trophy supplies from France. The captured French brigades also contain some number of trucks.
Oh, yes, since I have divided the towed artillery into horse and motorized types, I must replace the captured French basic artillery with motorized artillery in order to realize the excess of captured trucks.
It can also be conditionally assumed that French trucks went to fill a large number of previously received embryos of infantry divisions with trophy Czech arms.