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Tinto Talks #21 - 17th of July 2024

Hello Everyone and Welcome to another Tinto Talks! This is one of those Happy Wednesdays when we talk about the top secret game with the codename of Project Caesar, so that we can listen to your feedback.

This week we are going to take a look at how exploration will work in Project Caesar. In previous GSG games we’ve done, exploration has primarily been done by units, giving them manual orders to move, or sometimes automated orders, to explore places on the map to reveal. We have a new system that works separately to go away from this and separate the military from exploration.

Exploration in this game works entirely on Areas, and for those of you who don’t remember one of our earliest Tinto Talks, an Area contains a group of Provinces, and a Province contains a group of locations, so it should be about 25-75 locations in an area.

Explorations exist in the “geopolitics tab” together with colonization, maritime and privateering.

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You need a proper helmet to be a good explorer!

To get an area explored you need to start an exploration for it. You can only explore areas that are adjacent to an area you have already explored, and if it is an inland area, you can only explore if it is adjacent to an area you own.

Starting an exploration mission for an area costs a significant amount of gold, but there is also an additional cost to start a mission depending on whether it's a land area or a sea area. For a land area, you need manpower, and for sea areas you need sailors.

You also have a constant upkeep cost of gold for your exploration mission, and during your explorations, you may get events related to the exploration.

Missions always have a risk of failure, resetting all progress, and the characters involved can die.

The administrative ability of the leader of the expedition reduces its upkeep cost, while diplomatic ability impacts the success chance, and military ability impacts how quickly the exploration can be done.

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Incompetent at a lot in life, Matias redeeming quality was that he failed fast...

While most characters in the game can be assigned to explore an area, there are some characters that are far superior. These are ‘explorers’, which besides just being innately better at exploring, they also have different unique traits making them better or worse at certain aspects of exploring. While there are some explorers that join certain countries through historical events, there is also the possibility to recruit a new explorer. This requires the “Commision Explorers” advance in the Age of Discovery, that is early in the advances tree for the “New World” Institution.


Speaking of advances, there are a few advances throughout the game that speed up explorations, or make them less prone to failures. At the start of the game, at near range, an Exploration led by someone who is not an Explorer may take a few years to complete, but as you get more advanced, this will become shorter in time.

The trade winds on the sea lanes also have a significant impact on how quickly an area can be explored. We have designed the oceanic locations of Project Caesar to take into account the historical ‘sea lanes’ that were used by ships and fleets during the Age of Sail, taking advantage of their knowledge of winds and sea currents. These sea lanes shaped the way explorations were done, as their mastery was critical to the success (or failure) of an expedition.

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A purple advance is a unique one, and this is one that is unique to anyone in the Western Europe sub-continent in the Age of Renaissance.

If you have built a spy network in another country, you can use it to steal some of their maps.

As an exploration mission is finished, the knowledge of its discoveries will start spreading to other countries that have the capital on the same sub-continent as the explorer. Currently, the map spread takes about 150 years.

Stay tuned, as next week we will go deep into how the combat for armies will work.
 
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Thank You for this TT!

1. How does Naval Range impact the exploration?
2. Exploration failure chance is yearly, right? Would that mean that the longer expeditions have slightly more chnace to fail?
3. Also, will the first nation to circumnavigate or explore 100% of the world get a ssignificant bonus for the rest of campaign?
 
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1. Is it possible to expand the scope of Exploration to Regions instead of Areas? Like having an exploration mission to explore the entire Bengal region rather than just the areas?
It might get very tedious to explore area by area later on

2. Do we have to explore sea areas along the way to reach the New World or can we skip that and go straight to the New World?
 
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What about conquistadors? Are they depicted in game?

yes, but thats another mechanic completely, and something for a later TT
 
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I wonder how exploration is going to be somewhat limited during the first 200 years or so of the game. Portugal hadn't even discovered Madeira and the Azores, there was already an European colony in North America (Greenland) that eventually got abandoned, etc.

It is costly and not easy at the start..
 
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we are not decided 100% on the rule yet.

Spain claimed a lot of the new world but didn’t settle it. Maybe something that outlines owned places the same way that Native Americans in EU4 have their grazing ground provinces outlined with their color?
 
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So exploration is, like in EU4, done per area. While this is a logical choice, there are some historical voyages done that cannot be replicated by this system.

Vasco da Gama's voyage comes to mind. The Cape of Good Hope had been found by Portugal by then, and da Gama went straight from there to India. He did not explore an area, return to base, then went again, then returned to base, etc until he got to India.

The same applies to Columbus, he went straight from Spain to the caribbean, not by area. Magellan is yet another example. I hope you can allow this sort of goal-oriented exploration to happen as well.

My suggestion would be setting a goal, like "Reach India around Africa" and the ships would go around the coast of Africa as far as they can, and then return. This is exactly what Portugal did. Another goal could be "Reach India by going west", which is what Columbus attempted, eventually landing in the americas. Then Magellan accomplished this, landing in the spice islands. These would be more expensive explorations since they required a lot more supplies and ships.

Another thing I would like would be for sea exploration to also reveal coastal provinces. In EU4 these are done separately: first you discover the sea area and then the coasts. Could you combine these in 1? Again going by da Gama's example, he went all the way to India and immediately established diplomatic ties with the locals. In EU4 he has to make 2 trips (more actually, already mentioned before).

Also, when you send these expeditions will you reveal the map as the ships enter terra incognita or will be to revealed all at once when the explorer returns? (I prefer the latter option).
 
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Does the ship that I have impact this mission? For example, a squadron of galleys will pretty much guarantee a failure when trying to explore open seas.
And, do I have to assign this explorer to a squadron in particular or the explorer exists completely separated from the units?

It is not using units.
 
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I really love the idea that inland exploration will be more difficult. Will terrain, climate, etc. impact the speed of land exploration? or is it always the same speed?
that impacts it partially yes.,
 
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Mmmh not sure about adjacent areas being the only ones explored. Are the great explorers mentioned being able to explore more than one area, along a river or along a coast, etc.?

And talking about explorers, where is the crew of this ship?

WhereIsTheCrew.jpg
 
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Will we be able to see explorers move on the map? It's something I always liked about EU4. Having that minus the chance of them getting stuck would make this neat and less tedious.

I do wish we'd have the option to fund explorers in a general direction (say north America) and they would just go off to explore somewhere in that area, having some RNG about whether they'd survive and then if they do come back alive it would be a bit of a guess about what area they actually told you about. Say you tell hudson to explore north america he might come back with maps of canada, or florida, or the appalachians. That'd be neat
 
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Can you share maps with your allies/request that allies share their maps? Or is stealing the only alternative to exploration?

If an exploration is successful, are the sailors/manpower refunded, or do they functionally die when you pay for the expedition?

Sharing maps is not yet coded, thats why I didn't mention it in the talk.

sailors & manpowers are gone at the end of the expedition.
 
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Very cool, I love it.

Questions, if you do not mind:

1. Can all tags start exploring already at game start?
2. If not, do we need some tech such as some boat technology to allow for sea exploration?
3. Does the cost and risk of exploration increase the farther you go from an owned province? I interpreted time increases, but I wonder if other things increase as well.
4. When you say "You can only explore areas that are adjacent to an area you have already explored", do you include (pure) sea areas in what we need to explore? By that I mean, can Portugal go straight from the Azores to the Americas / Brazil or do they need to explore the empty ocean in between?
 
I have a question about the exploration of Asia.

Indonesian seafarers such as the kingdom of Srivijaya (7th–13th CE) and other Austronesian sea people played a pivotal role in facilitating the voyage of the Portuguese sailors to Asia. When Portuguese sailors arrived in South Africa in the 15th century, they encountered Austronesian sea people whose influence reached at that time from Madagascar at the shores of South Africa to the Eastern Islands in the Pacific. The knowledge of the Malayan seafarers allowed the Portuguese to cover the distance from Madagascar to Indonesia (ca. 5550 kilometers) using the seasonal winds; the recurring patterns of the monsoon had been discovered by Malayan voyagers as early as 3,000 years ago.

Will this crucial knowledge exchange be reflected in any way?

Reference
François Gipouloux, The Asian Mediterranean: Port Cities and Trading Networks in China, Japan and Southeast Asia, 13th–21st Century (Cheltenham: Elgar, 2011), 113ff.
 
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I love that inland exploration will be more costly and difficult, but will rivers like the Mississippi be easier to explore as it was historically? Not sure the rule on this as for example the Amazon was relatively difficult.
 
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