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Tinto Maps #19 - 20th of September 2024 - India

Hello everyone, and welcome once again to another Tinto Maps! Today we will be taking a look at India! Yup, a whole subcontinent… Exciting!

Let me say a foreword before I start sharing with you some beautiful maps. Some of you may wonder why we decided to make the entire Indian subcontinent in just one DD, instead of spreading it a bit. There are two reasons for that. The first is the political situation: the Sultanate of Delhi is at its zenith, under Muhammad bin Tughlaq. You will soon see that it rules over more than half of the region, approximately; so splitting that polity into several DDs would have felt weird.

The other is that we felt that a more cohesive approach made sense in this region, as it’s sooo diverse compared to others, that the way we approached it, both for its setup and content, was from the generic to the particular; therefore, we think that it will also help us more when we tackle the review of the region. Speaking of that, don’t worry much about the time available to prepare suggestions; you may already know that we have a backlog of several regions, and therefore weeks, before we hit the Indian review, so you will have plenty of time to research and prepare them. In any case, as it’s a massive task (we know it firsthand), we’ll let you know a bit in advance when we plan to start the in-depth review of it, so you have time to wrap it up.

As a final say, I just want to mention that an old acquaintance of the community, @Trin Tragula , now Design Lead in CK3, helped us to map a big chunk of it. Thanks, mate! And now, maps!

Countries:
Countries.jpg

Colored Wastelands.png

As I just mentioned, the Sultanate of Delhi is at its zenith, under Muhammad bin Tughlaq, extending through the Indo-Gangetic Plain, including Bengal, and to the south, throughout the Deccan. There we have its toughest contender, Vijayanagar, a county that is a bulwark of Hinduism. Other important countries around it are Orissa and Sindh, but much smaller countries generally surround Delhi. You might wonder how it would be possible to stop Delhi from completely controlling the region, then. For this, two things are affecting its capability to achieve it. The first is the base game mechanics: ruling over so many different cultures and religions with low control will be hard. The second is a Situation that involves the Fall of the Sultanate; if Delhi wants to succeed, it will have to fight back against rebellions, which involves the potential independence of the Bengalese countries or newborn ones such as the Bahmanis, and the multiple Indian states around it, which are ready to take over it.

Dynasties:
Dynasties.jpg


Locations:
Locations.jpg

Locations 2.jpg

Locations 3.jpg

Locations 4.jpg
Yes, we are making some adjustments to the coloring of the mapmodes!

Provinces:
Provinces.jpg

Provinces 2.jpg

Provinces 3.jpg

Provinces 4.jpg

Areas:
Areas.jpg

The bug is still there, yes… The area that is to the southwest is Malabar.

Terrain:
Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

Here we have a new type of topography: Atolls. We added it some months ago, as we worked on finishing the map of the Pacific Ocean, and it will be the last one added to the game.

Development:
Development.jpg

A new map mode is born! Here you have the development of India. The most developed place is Delhi, which is part of the fertile Gangetic Plain.

Harbors:
Harbors.jpg


Cultures:
Cultures.jpg

Cultures 2.jpg

Cultures 3.jpg
Not an entirely new map, but a glorious one. We chose it to be the one to present how the different cultures could be present in the game for a reason.

Religions:
Religions.jpg

Religions 2.jpg

Religions 3.jpg
India is the birthplace of numerous religions, and that needs to be reflected in the religious map. The main religion is Hinduism, but don’t be deceived by its homogeneous look, as it will be quite deep feature-wise. We also have Buddhism, which is at a low point, after some centuries of prosecutions. Mahayana is a majority in Sindh, although that's not completely exact, as an earlier form of Buddhism was practiced there; we’re also not 100% convinced about it being a majority, as some sources and accounts set the Islamization of the region to be completed under the Ghaznavids, in the 11th and 12th century, while others delay it until the 14th century - we followed the later approach, but we're very open to feedback in this specific matter. Another form of Buddhism is Theravada, which is the most practiced religion in Sailan. Some interesting minorities present in the region are Jains (yellow stripes), Nestorians (the pink stripe in Malabar, which portrays the ‘Saint Thomas Christians’), Jews (which have their own separate culture, ‘Kochini’), and several Animist confessions, of which we’ve already split Satsana Phi, the traditional religion of Tai people, and Sanamahism, the religion of Meitei people. Oh, although it’s not strictly part of the region, the light blue stripes to the north is Bön religion.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.jpg

Raw Materials 2.jpg

Raw Materials 3.jpg

Raw Materials 4.jpg
India was for some time in the period the wealthiest region of the world, one of the main reasons being that it’s incredibly rich in very different types of resources, including some of the expensive ones. That will make for a very interesting economic gameplay.

Markets:
Markets India.png

There are several market centers in India that we think portray well the situation in 1337: Kabul (yes, it’s in Afghanistan, but it’s one for the area of Kashmir), Delhi, Khambat, Calicut, Pulicat, Varanasi, and Chittagong.

Population:
Population.jpg

Population 2.jpg

Population 3.jpg

Population 4.jpg

Population 5.jpg

Population 10.jpg

Population 9.jpg

Population 6.jpg

Population 7.jpg

Population 8.jpg

India has a big population. To be precise, around 95M pops. Delhi is the second largest country in the world in population, with 41M pops, which makes it a behemoth, with very serious governance challenges. I’m also showing this week the progress we’re making with the coloring of the population mapmode; the stripes on several locations mark that they’re overpopulated, as they have more pops living on them than the pop capacity available (something that may be reviewed, as balancing very densely populated regions such as India or China is really challenging).

And that’s all for today! We hope you enjoyed this massive Tinto Maps. Next week we will be taking a look at the Steppe. Which one, you might wonder? Well, the one ruled by the Golden Horde, from Ukraine in the west to Mongolia in the east. Cheers!
 
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Seeing India reminds me of an issue I persnally have.
For example, in EU4 the Indian AI just gobbles all the smaller tags pretty early on, same thing happens in Imperator.
I know you already said that Dehli is likely to collapse, but will be anything stopping the creation of big ugly blobs like in these games?
 
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Man, I don't know how to feel about the new map styles...is it me or they look more difficult to read? @Pavía could you post the same maps but with old styles to make a comparison plz?
I agree, the granular map modes (locations, raw materials, topography,...) should imo have a flat color scheme, and not have borders. They are detrimental for extracting information at a glance. (How am I supposed to get anything from the development map mode?)

Also, for the development map mode: please shy away from the green-yellow-orange color scheme. Us color blind people cannot use these :)
 
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They didn't fix that? wtf
Seems not.

A few suggestions just from initial analysis:
- Assamese shouldn't quite exist in Bengal - The Ahom tribe, after becoming more settled can (and should) be able to form or integrate into the Assamese culture slowly incorporating other tribal groups in the Brahmaputra Valley region. Similar to the distinction between Turkish and Turkoman cultures in this game. Perhaps the Assamese culture can still be present to represent the Indo-Aryan population - but moving them to the Assam region instead would make the most sense.
- The part of the map having Assamese culture should be entirely Bengali-majority. You could however extend the lands of the Koch people. The Rajbongshi culture would not have emerged yet, so a slighly increased spread of Koch people mixed with Bengali people should properly represent the cultural makeup of North Bengal.
- Marathi is a far better name for the culture than Maratha. Please consider making this change.
- Not sure why Chattisgarhi is considered a culture, atleast an unified one, since around this time the region would be split between various tribal peoples such as Gondi, Bhil, Muria, Kanwar, Oraon etc... Gondi taking precedence as the major tribal group in the area. Chattisgarhi as a cultural identity is rather new, and does not reflect the social makeup of the 1300s. Chattisgarhi as a language emerged from the admixture of Hindi with local languages such as Munda and other Dravidian languages. Perhaps the culture can arise during gameplay if the tribes in the region decide to settle and move into other social classes. But as a majority in this region in 1337... unlikely.
 
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I agree, the granular map modes (locations, raw materials, topography,...) should imo have a flat color scheme, and not have borders. They are detrimental for extracting information at a glance. (How am I supposed to get anything from the development map mode?)

Also, for the development map mode: please shy away from the green-yellow-orange color scheme. Us color blind people cannot use these :)
Are you doing something for topo - if so I'll abandon my portion on East India.
 
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I agree, the granular map modes (locations, raw materials, topography,...) should imo have a flat color scheme, and not have borders. They are detrimental for extracting information at a glance. (How am I supposed to get anything from the development map mode?)

Also, for the development map mode: please shy away from the green-yellow-orange color scheme. Us color blind people cannot use these :)
Yes, although I quite like it for the locations it helps separating them, the rest not really especially the vegetation map which has many shades of green
 
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Shouldn't there be Zoroastrians in India as well?
 
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Is there a possibility for a game-option that would have Delhi split before starting a campaign? (same thing for Yuan as well)

This might not be the most useful thing for singleplayers, unless they want to play a specific country under Delhi from the start. But for multiplayer it would be extremely useful when slotting players.

Having to wait a couple hours or more, before you can join as the country you want in India (or China) would be quite frustrating, and not to mention cause unnecessary destabilization to the lobby, by hotjoining multiple people later on
 
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