Suggestions regarding the upcoming Psionic DLC/Frustrations with the current setup

[Avald]

Something that has frustrated me regarding the psionic/spiritualist options in this game is the way things are mashed together, to the point it makes no sense.

What do I mean by "makes no sense"? Well take the contradiction between your ruler being able to become a God-Emperor figure, while also worshipping one chaos god or another. Because that is what these 4 entities in the shroud represent after all. Or be the Adeptus Mechanicus and still worship chaos.

In fact the entire way it is setup is counterintuitive and makes no sense. We got all these weird shroud beings acting like chaos deities, even the toxic god (whoever it might reference, I am not aware), all being poisoned chalices. Yet somehow you also get increased unity, which would represented an ordered society holding together. How does this make sense? This becomes worse when you consider what "spiritualism" represents, a unity of spirit, etc, yet here they are worshipping chaos, which by it's very nature is entropic, not unifying.

Speaking of spiritualism and the chaos dissonance, there is also the matter of it not lining up with IRL spiritualism at all. From as something "primitive" as polytheistic faiths going back to a pre-recorded history having the gods bring about order, such as is the case in all indo-european religions, chinese folk religion, shintoism, kemitism, etc. to monotheistic faiths having the God be Order such as is the case in christianity, islam, judaism, zoroastrianism etc. and even as far as the nontheistic/semi-philosophical/semi-religious systems as taoism, bhuddism etc also all being about bringing order into your life/the world. All these examples showcase just how important order is in any spiritualistic thing, we are aware off. And yet here in the game, it is the reverse. It isn't order that is sought, but chaos. Does this make sense? It doesn't, not one bit.


So here are some suggestions in order to try and fix this:

Take inspiration from classical generic fantasy deity systems, where it doesn't just have chaos deities, but also gods of order, of goodness, etc. You don't need 4 gods of order, countering the 4 chaos gods, just more normal alternative choices.

A much more radical suggestion might be to decouple spiritualism from psionics (it makes little sense that materalists would disregard an observable phenomenon like the shroud), and have both things be separate. Maybe introduce a faith system that impacts pops desires of "wanting to go and farm" or "live amongst the rocks in the mines", etc. Considering there is a whole new pop system, maybe introducing a faith attribute, that could dynamically spread via trade agreements/migration pacts and impact morale in future wars/relations in general, that might be another pathway. With more spiritualist empires being more strongly impacted, but also gaining more control over what exactly their people believe and receiving some small buffs, depending on the faith (living amongst the rocks => mining yield).

And lastly, to somehow fit the incongruence of being both seekers of order and chaos, treat them as separate. Have spiritualist empires go to war with these shroud deities, because they want to protect the souls of their people from these predators. Have a good ole order vs chaos battle that appears in so many mythologies across the globe.


I hope that my suggestions find fertile ground.

 

[Silens]

A much more radical suggestion might be to decouple spiritualism from psionics (it makes little sense that materalists would disregard an observable phenomenon like the shroud), and have both things be separate.

I'm a radical and I want to go down this road.

The Shroud is an extra dimension you can physically enter, i.e. when you go Cosmogenesis and jump into the central black hole. Or when you encounter the formless, they also are very connected to the Shroud (using it as a shortcut between places), and you can see physical manifestations coming out of the Shroud, regardless of your ethic or species. Those things are as real and physical as it can get.

It's also worth noting that psionic abilities are usually discovered before the Shroud. The Zroni first learned of the Shroud after they psionically awakened. Same when you go down that route, you can only start investigating the Shroud after you fully awakened.

While the Shroud as a dimension does respond well to psionic abilities, it is by no means tied to it. Which means that yes, I want the option to completely disregard this path and choose another evolution.

I'd also decouple it from any forced notion, that it might have something to do with religion, spiritualism, faith, gods, or whatever. Psionics are an ability, one that biological life can develop. Sure, it is a trope that religious people bring the inherently necessary open-minded-ness towards other realities and higher beings, or the patience of a monk-clergy to meditate in seclusion and come to inner peace or understanding or whatever.

But realistically, a skill is a skill, and everything can be learned and trained. Especially with the tech options Stellaris gives us.

Anyway, I do agree with you here. Even from a spiritualist POV, the relationship with the Shroud, which the game gives us, is not a healthy one. It makes sense maybe, if the government consists of nihilistic cynics, who sell out their own species in a Faustian bargain, while merely maintaining the illusion of a coherent religion. But honestly, it doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Nabil ad Dajjal]

It would be nice if the God-Emperor and Shroud Patron paths were different, representing either taking a 'Golden Path' or a quick Faustian deal.

My pick for a third option would be 'Ascension,' with a less-redundant name, for gradually turning into non-corporeal energy beings. Virtuality has shown how something like that could work from a gameplay perspective, you would just need to make the flavor a bit more enlightenment-coded. That could also serve as a bone to throw to materialist empires, so people who want bland Star Trek / Culture style psionics can avoid the fun 40K / Dune lore.

 

[Foxosaur]

I can't speak for the uncoupling to much at all simply because I havn't really understood or caved into playing for favouring with gods, apart from one playthrough and I just remember my end game turning into a nightmare with thousands of negative energy or something a month. I clearly had no idea what I was doing. So I can't with any degree comment how needed or unneeded that might be.


But I do think space spiritualism should be expanded to having a + shaped axis of 4 or more cults / factions / deities of worship. It could exist either separately from materialism and machines and maybe hives and maybe make apathy a "thing" too. That is, materialists and machines can choose to simply ignore or hate spiritualism of any kind. Or its axis opposites are actual materialists/machines and pretty much war is inevitable.

As for deities, maybe Psionics can stay as it is and you draw on a pantheon-like selection of Titans outside of Psionics using other new ascensions - such deities instead grow in power in your empire the larger the slice of worship they earn(sub spiritualist faction groups?). They can, like an FE, ask you to do questionable things but maybe more sinister, making you slow the game down, like betraying a federation member and conducting a space-crusade.

 

[Psykhes]

A much more radical suggestion might be to decouple spiritualism from psionics (it makes little sense that materalists would disregard an observable phenomenon like the shroud), and have both things be separate.

I would also agree with this.

Giving spiritualism a psionic themed bonus, which is about equally good as the one materialists have for robots (meaning no huge bonus), would be totally fine IMO.

If the psionic rework also results in multiple different "specialisations", similar as for Synthetics and Genetics, it would also be okay if one of the "specialisations" is heavily spiritualism themed.

But otherwise I would decouple spiritualism (and authorian) from psionics.
The other ascensions do not have these "locked in" mechanics. Psionics shouldn't either.

 

[Democratic Monarchy]

One idea I posted about was about spreading Psionics into two distinct paths: Devotion (forming Covenants with Shroud Entities) and Cultivation (self-improvement, inspired by the wuxia genre). Admittedly, I did that write-up before BioGenesis was revealed, and the fact that the Genetic Ascension Path has been technically split into three got me thinking about a new setup:

• Choosing to approach the Shroud on its own terms, which unlocks Devotion Ascension
• Choosing to approach the Shroud on your own terms, which unlocks two Ascensions that you can choose from
  • Cultivation, so you can develop your psionic powers on your own without any help from the Entities
  • Arcanotech, which is an older idea I had where, instead of developing your own powers, you use Zro to augment your technology, like inscribing sigils into guns to make them more accurate or capturing Shroud Spirits to use as navigation instruments, etc.